| Author | Message | ||
     Anonymous |
Mobil 1 is around $4, why would anybody and to pay twice as much for essentially the same thing? Oh, I know, it says HD and is especially formulated for their engines. Posted by JMartz | ||
| Ara |
Jrh, I recall reading that synthetics are compatible with dino juice. If you think about it, that's exactly what semi-synthetic oils are. I doubt seriously that you'll have a problem if there's some residual conventional oil in the engine when you fill 'er up with synthetic. That said, running the engine briefly after you've drained what you can will scavenge 3-5 ounces more. As to the primary case, I've found that draining from the plug with the motorcyle on the sidestand leaves an amazing amount of lube in the primary. If you drain with the bike standing straight up on a swingarm stand you'll get it all. In fact, if you drain it that way you'll find that you need a whole quart to fill it back up to the recommended level. Try it. Russ | ||
| Mikej |
Mobil1.com
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| Bluzm2 |
Mike, You beat me to the punch. Mobil 1 V-Twin is not $4.00 per quart anywhere I've seen. Cheapest regular price I've found is around $7.00 per quart. On sale at WalMart last year I lucked out, around $5 per. BTW why the Anony on that post? | ||
| Mikej |
Don't know, someone probably didn't want to peeve their dealership, I'm sure we'll know who soon. Should be a few K-Marts closing around here soon. Maybe they'll have some syn-oil on sale. | ||
| Jssport |
Did the MoFoCo issue any notices on increased milage between oil changes when using their synthetic version? | ||
| Mikej |
Probably have to wait for the 2004 models and their publications to come out before finding of those recommendations. Might be interesting to see if the new oil is mentioned in the 2003 service/owners books. Could have been a preview that some missed, and if so I wonder what else is in there.... | ||
| Blake |
Aaron, I noticed the exact same thing. HD/Mobil V-Twin. Ara, Yes, I expect the debate to be over. The big argument I've always heard was that the manufacturer did not recommend synthetic oil, that the HD360 oil was somehow magically superior to any other oils, even synthetics for use in HD engines. It seems to me that the manufacturer has now in one indisputable and conclusive act totally debunked the myths. They specifically offer synthetic oil so obviously it will not cause problems in their engines as some have continued to profer. The OEM specifically says that it is fine to use during break-in which contradicts so many believers of the myths. So now that the myths are finally exposed and refuted by the very originator responsible for propagating many of them, you now want to propagate doubt by claiming that HD is just caving to market forces???  If synthetic is detrimental to the health of the HD/Beull engines and HD/Buell are responsible for warrantying those same engines, how much sense would that make? Answer... NONE! It certainly is great business strategy to offer a superior product. Fearmongers and Worryworts, There is absolutely no problem, when changing oil and going from conventional to synthetic, with the mixing of modern synthetic based oils with conventional based oils. Y'all are still buying in to the myths. PLEASE, for the sake of my sanity, let it go.  | ||
| Sandmanx1 |
Hey Blake,What are you running in your bike? I know you said it but im having a brain fart and can't think where to look. | ||
| Hans |
Methinks Mobil-1 20W50 See Blakes profile.Hans | ||
| Prof_Stack |
No doubt synthetic oil is better. My '00 Blast ran smoother with it compared to Harley360. I used Mobil-1 15W-50 (auto) and ran the P3 in over 90F temperatures. So, for $4/qt, go with Mobil-1 15W-50; or for $7/qt, go with Mobil-1 20W-50 v-twin; or for $8.25/qt, go with Screaming Eagle 20W-50? If all are clearly better than Harley360, why pay more than $4/qt? | ||
| Aesquire |
my .02$ worth. I ran Castrol (2 stroke) in my 2 stroke as I noticed less smoke & less wear than other dino oils. I tried synth but $ benefit ratio was not good with an injector system ( although I WOULD run synth in an aircraft 2 stroke, the walk home is a wee bit more difficult). I run Castrol or Valvoline synth in my 'van (brand loyalty mostly) and have had zip for engine wear problems in more than 200k miles. You can mix dino & synth no problems. Don't worry about getting the last drop of the dino out (except to get out as much dirt as possible) I am still hearing not to break in on synth, is that a myth? | ||
| Aesquire |
The Volvo guys (long car life freaks!) love amsoil and (being frugal whackos) will change the filter in between 10,000 mile oil change intervals. Some where on this thread was a link to a test for visc. life & (to my dismay) Mobil-1 held Visc. longer that Castrol Syntec. Ok I'll go Mobil. | ||
| Aesquire |
I'd say run brand of choice synthetic, and just accept that you are going to pay for the benefits & forgo the touted long life between changes.. Getting the dirt & acid out is more important than saving $8 - $18. Primary Lube is a different matter. I'd go with what you guys like.  | ||
| Blake |
Yep. And as I like to support the Buell dealer, I'll probably switch to the HD/Buell version. I used to run the 15W50, still would if the dealer didn't carry the V-Twin or HD synth stuff. | ||
| Aesquire |
I can break in on HD Synthetic???? Cool. Less foam, more power. Life is good.  | ||
| Ara |
Blake, I'm not trying to frazzle you, I'm just being cynical that's all. What I'm saying is that synthetic oil has ALWAYS been superior to conventional oil, that H-D advanced and perpetuated those myths solely for reasons of profit, and that H-D has now reversed itself and is marketing synthetic oil solely for reasons of profit. I just naturally tend to be cynical when it comes to the marketing departments of large corporations. Come to think of it, the legal departments of large corporations do not inspire confidence either. Russ | ||
| Joey |
I'm wondering, after getting a Genuine HD rain suit, if the HD Synthetic is made in China.  | ||
| Swampy |
What is the correct method for checking the trans/primary fluid on a Blast. Also are ther any recommendations on what type to put back in? Thanks | ||
| Blake |
Swampy, Do you have an owner's manual? It should include a diagram showing how to accurately determine the proper level of fluid. With the bike upright and level, the tranny/primary lube should just touch the bottom of the steel disk-like Bellville/diaphragm clutch spring. Sport Trans or HD Synthetic 20W50 or a good synthetic 75W90 gear oil. | ||
| Swampy |
Blake, Thanks, I have an owners manual but it says take it to the dealer, the dealer says its a two hour job! Its because the left footpeg frame has to come off to get to the inspection cover. The owners manual just has a capacity but no lube specs. The manual shows the drain plug for the trans/primary but no fill instructions! Its still early and I have time so I guess if I drain it then refill with 32oz I'll be ok? | ||
| Blake |
You need to fill it so the fluid just touches the clutch spring. Most people find that they only need 28 to 30 onces when refilling after draining. There may be a pic in the Primary Drive or Clutch topics. Revision needed for all Buells... Add a simple dipstick or sight glass and and easy access filler cap for the primary/tranny. | ||
| Brad |
In the years I've been employed in the Service Department of a Harley-Davidson dealership, I have NEVER seen anything from the mothership that even remotely suggests as Ara believes that ". . . H-D advanced and perpetuated those myths solely for reasons of profit, and that H-D has now reversed itself and is marketing synthetic oil solely for reasons of profit." You will find that the likely culprits are the local dealers who either (a) didn't know, or (b) didn't stock synthetic product, so rather than fall on their own sword and admit their lack, say that "Harley advises against it". Which is a long way from what the truth was: "Harley doesn't recommend it (because Harley doesn't have a synthetic product to sell)." BTW, I make a heckuva lot more money on the Synthetic Products I have been selling than I do on HD 360. But that's NOT the reason I have been selling them. | ||
| Ara |
Brad, I'm not the only one who apparently thinks that. See Blake's January 30 post, "So now that the myths are finally exposed and refuted by the very originator responsible for propagating many of them..." I've done business with a number of H-D dealerships over the years, and I've never seen a synthetic lubricant in any of them. They simply weren't selling it - not one of them. I think that speaks pretty clearly. | ||
| Rick_A |
I ran across a Harley ad not long ago that was used on their website and many local dealer sites stating about their dyno oil, "Be assured, H-D 360 is the only oil that should be trusted in a Harley-Davidson V-Twin engine." Actually, as I now understand it...most myths were perpetuated in the days when they were actually mostly true. Those days are long gone...though there will always be some exceptions. It seems all oil companies use some marketing hype in the description of their products. People use such a varied array of oils in the primary. I can find no way to determine which one is best. Mine's going to need changing soon, and I can't decide what to use! | ||
| Reepicheep |
Rick.. I went from the normal sportster primary fluid to the mobil 1 gear oil, and was a little alarmed by how much better everything worked. I thought anything that works this much better must be really different, and panic'd a little and went back to the Harley stuff at the next change. After going back and experiencing how much worse things worked, I will now be going back to mobil 1 with the next change. It can't be that much worse and still somehow be better, if you know what I mean... Besides, I ran the stock harley stuff for 10k miles without much abuse, and my second gear dogs are shot anyway. That's not to say Mobil 1 would have prevented that, but it is to say there is no "magic" about the Harley oil either. Just one man's opinion... | ||
| Hootowl |
In 1999, Eastside HD/Buell in Bellevue WA recommended that I put Redline in my tranny. They had it in stock. | ||
| Brad |
Ara: Maybe you misconstrue the business relationship between Harley-Davidson and Harley-Davidson dealerships: we are Harley-Davidson's customers. That's it. We're not branches, we're not separate arms. Selling or not selling synthetic oil was purely a business decision made at the local level, and did not come "from the top down." No matter what, ad puffery does not rise to the level of policy--though of course they promote the use of their own product. Who wouldn't? | ||
| Blake |
Ara, One of my local dealers sells Mobil-1 20W50 out of the service department. Though they don't display it on the floor along with the MoCo's products. | ||
| Rick_A |
Well, I broke down today and got automotive specific oils for my S1. There's some interesting differences between Mobil1 V-Twin 20W-50 and Mobil1 15W-50. The V-Twin oil states that it's meant to prolong the life of the engine and transmission. The transmission protection is something that doesn't apply here. Aside from that it doesn't seem to have any other unique features from any other full synthetic. It has the API service rating SG, SH/CF SG was a 1990 rating for extreme pressure additives added SH, interestingly enough, is when in 1994 Zinc Dialkyl Phosphate (an anti wear agent) was reduced to suit catalytic converters, while still meeting the latest standards of the time. CF is a 1994 designation originating in 1994 meaning it's suitable for light duty diesels The 15W-50 label states that it's suitable for racing, gas, diesel, and turbocharged engines. It also says it protects hotter running engines (temps of 400 degrees) even at long drain intervals. It has an SJ rating, having friction modifiers added for less friction to compensate for the lesser ZDP levels...and the latest SL rating...supposedly the current highest level of protection. It also has the CF diesel rating. Someone told me that Harley used to state that a "C" rated oil could be used in a pinch if genuine Harley oil could not be purchased. I don't know if that's true or not. It seems that the main difference between most motorcycle specific motor oils and automotive types is simply the wet clutch compatibility and gearbox protection. So I got the Mobil 1 75W-90 synthetic gear lube, too...because I can tell when the H-D Sport-Trans starts breaking down 'cause the bike starts shifting like crap...and frankly that worries me. I'll see how it all works soon enough. I found it strange that the API website itself offered virtually no insight into its ratings. I also found this interesting Bel-Ray oil Q & A that answers a lot of common questions about motorcycle engine oils. ...and I'm still sticking to motorcycle specific oil filters! I find it strange that the Sportster/Buell recommended oil change intervals are about twice what they should be. After about only 2000 miles it starts becoming apparent to me that the 'ol dino oil is not how it used to be. |
