| Author | Message | ||
     Gentleman_jon |
Are discounting dealers KILLING the brand???? and OUR resale value at the same time.... Short answer: No. What hurt the brand was releasing the 2008's before they were ready. The result of that was very poor reviews in the press. When the 2009's came out with most of the problems solved, no one wanted the 2008's. So dealers lowered the price to get them out the door to make way for the 2009's and soon, the 2010's. It's called the free market. What made this country great. Remember, anyone? PS: I must say I find it rather pathetic that "anonymous" is afraid of antagonizing his dealer. I should say it would be more appropriate, and better for the brand for the dealer to be worried about annoying the customer. (Message edited by Gentleman_jon on June 09, 2009) | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
A motorcycle is a consumable. Icing on the top of a half eaten twinky doesn't really do much to alter the secondary market value. The price in the secondary market is the economic value placed by the second buyer for the use of the remainder of the item. A used Mitsubishi, as an example consumable, has the secondary market value of a used condom. | ||
| Eboos |
quote: If one only goes by the Blue Book the seller is cheated. -------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ And if you don't go by blue book, everyone else gets cheated. Book value is determined by the average retail and trade in values as determined by those in the business of buying and selling motorcycles. Kelly, NADA, and Edmonds do not assign values to items, they only publish the average values of those items sold and bought. | ||
| Court |
>>>PS: I must say I find it rather pathetic that "anonymous" is afraid of antagonizing his dealer. Agreed. And the 2008 models, with the updates are effectively identical to the 2009 models. In addition, Buell has done a stellar job of stepping up to the plate, updating them promptly and addressing issues. If you want to see discounts, check out the leftover 2008 Porsches with a 2009 model year that only ran a couple months. . they are now ordering and building 2010 models. I'm seeing 2008's at $20,000 off MSRP. I love the free market. How come this never happens to guitar prices? | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Agreed. And the 2008 models, with the updates are effectively identical to the 2009 models. This is not an entirely accurate statement. | ||
| Rpm4x4 |
From my perspective the brand is doing better than ever. The 1125 has done a lot for Buell as a whole. The more Buells sold keeps the elves busy (employed). More Buells sold means more gear, parts, and acc sold. In these economic times most of america is on sale. I say enjoy it while you can. | ||
| Court |
>>>>That comment seems harsh and un-gentlemanly to me - you don't know who this Anon is, or why he's posting anonymously. Correct that is. I do know the stated reason is lame and far below normal Badweb standards. I'm assuming an accommodation was made for some reason. EDIT: By the way I gleefully acknowledge that it's none of my business. It didn't "bother" me, just stuck me as very unusual. (Message edited by court on June 09, 2009) | ||
| Teeps |
Maybe Obama-lama-ding-dong will spread some of his "hope and change", you know throw some Obama-nomics in there; force all dealers to sell at M.S.R.P. and not a penny less. Be mo tax money that way... don't ya know? Bastage you funny man... | ||
| Daves |
There will always be buyers that buy strictly on price. There will always be dealers that sell cheap(they must know they have nothing else to offer?) Selling at a low, low price is the easiest way. There will always be buyers that buy based on value and they value things a good (great) dealer has to offer. There will always be dealers that sell value. Price buyers rarely buy at a value dealer. Value buyers rarely buy at a price dealer. If you do a good job you don't have to give Buells away. It's been proven too many times at too many good dealers. The Buell business does not have a monopoly on this type of situation. It has occurred in every industry I have been involved with over the past 30 years. | ||
| Blake |
Upon thorough review and understanding of the facts, the not so lame anony post by [redacted] My bad, I failed to note that anony poster had been approved by excellent and on-the-ball custodians. Sorry about that anony. I owe you one. Blake (been way too cranky lately, please forgive) (Message edited by Blake on June 11, 2009) | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Damn. The hammer is swinging.  | ||
| Rsh |
I guess you have to know what the dealer price/cost really is. Invoice is not necessarily dealer cost, at least not with cars anyway. For instance if I can sell a popular model car or bike for for over MSRP and also add exuberant setup and doc fees which are mostly pure dealer profit, I can afford to give a blowout price on a unit which is not selling or is slow selling. Doing this generates foot traffic and may also lead to a sale, word of mouth advertising of said deals spreads fairly quickly and before you know it the "good deals" are gone. | ||
| Cyclonedon |
very interesting thread! First start with the dealer, they are in business to make money and if they don't make money, they don't stay in business! Second the consumer, is always looking for a deal, or a "feel good" buy because if your not satisfied with your purchase you'll never be happy with it! Now when I'm reading about all the people on Badweb riding miles to do business and complaining about their local dealers, I just think maybe it's because we don't support our local dealers. Just last Friday at Hal's, Erik made a comment about there's a homecoming at your local dealers and praised Hal's as an great example. I always shop locally because price is just a small part of a buying experience, there has to be service and trust in dealing with the purchase. After all my dealer talked me into buying a Buell back in 1998 and I've been very happy since! Support Buell motorcycles and your local Buell dealer!!! Ride safe!  | ||
| Greenlantern |
How come this never happens to guitar prices? Because as long as a dealer has wall space and patience, it will undoubtably become a classic.  | ||
| Bill0351 |
"How come this never happens to guitar prices?" From Musician's Friend: Gibson Hummingbird Since its release in 1960, the Gibson Hummingbird Acoustic Guitar has lured celebrity players with its sweet, velvet tone and distinctive appearance.... Limited Quantity! Price: $4,659.99 MSRP: $6,577.00 Item Ships Free! | ||
| Chippy |
That price better be for a 60' hbird. | ||
| Court |
Actually it's not and the funny thing is that to get the "True Vintage" will tack on another $1,000. Fortunately . . . I kept the one I bought in 1972. It's on loan in Portland, OR through so of course I am seeking . . . . Headed to Manny's at lunch . . . if you ever make NYC don't miss "Guitar Row". | ||
| Sanchez |
I must admit I was a bit surprised the first time I walked into a Buell dealership and asked about pricing. The salesman told me the MSRP, and I asked, "Yeah, but what do they usually sell for?" "Um, MSRP." In most every other area "MSRP" is just the inflated value the manufacturer suggests so that you feel better about the real price. That doesn't mean the dealership has nothing to offer, though. When I bought my 2006 Ulysses new in mid-2007, I did get $500 off MSRP, but the best thing I got was a three year prepaid maintenance plan at no extra charge. With my 30k service coming up next week, I've probably saved at least $3000 and hours of my own time. | ||
| Oddball |
If bikes were flying off the floors at msrp and some dropped to 50% of msrp you might make an argument for attempted murder of the brand. But, in effect, 2 year old models still languishing on the floor having prices lowered until buyers are found isn't killing the the brand or other dealers anymore than the bikes doing their own boy in a bubble impersonations on the showroom. The brand lives by being on the streets not in a museum (showroom floor) gathering dust. "In the year 2008, a company called Buell made this motorcycle for public use children. It was intended to set spirits ablaze with it's aplomb in corners. Now, we can still view these machines just as they were. Look, the MSRP sticker price can still be clearly seen just as it was the day uncrated long long ago." | ||
| Daves |
Yep, when you have left over bikes you gotta move them out! In a perfect world you wouldn't have any left at the end of the year. It is tough to forecast exactly how many Buells you will sell in any given year. None of the dealers/companies I have ever worked for do the "we'll sell the bikes cheap and make it up in the other departments" thing. In theory it sounds good but you'd have to sell a ton of Buell T-shirts to make up for a $1500.00 or more discount on the bike. I don't know any Buell owner that has 150-200 Buell shirts from the same dealer? The dealers that blow out current Buells do hurt the market in many different ways, some not quite as obvious as others. | ||
| 86129squids |
How do we avoid chasing everyone to the bottom on price? THAT has been the eternal quex-tion in selling these bikes. HD has always had a unique marketing approach (note: "marketing" not "sales"), which never has been applied to their red-headed stepchild. Harley-Davidsons are the Epitome of Cool when it comes to their market segment. Doesn't matter that they can cost double what a similarly equipped metric does, the buyer perceives quality and MUCH VALUE simply by virtue of owning the name. This has little to do with performance or even spec sheet racing, unlike the sport market where the #'s representing HP along with the #'s representing top speed have become paramount. Until the average buyer, shopping the entire sportbike market, sees Buell as uniquely COOL, uniquely "AMURRICAN" and establishes in their mind enough VALUE to justify paying the fair market value (insert your $ amount here), BMC faces an uphill battle. Here's my impression of the thought process of the average sportbike buyer: GSXR, 'Busa: Legendary. CBR-RR: Ditto (GOD I hate using that word but it fits.) Ninja, Team Green: Also very notable. Yamaha: Them tuning forks folks got it going on with the R6 and R1. Ducati: Sex on wheels, big $$$, aspirational. KTM: Dang them things are kinda weird, but they're kinda kewl. Buell: "Huh? WTF is that doing parked next to the Hogs in here? How come it sounds like a Hog? Whazzup with them weird pods? Will it do whut it sez on the speedo? Dunno about that." God I hope the new folks heading up marketing for BMC can figure this out. Buell should not be the "red-headed stepchild" but rather the first-born, platinum-haired HOT! daughter of Harley-Davidson. Marketing has their work cut out for them... but I will always have faith. Idea: Every Buell dealer should have a Kool-Aid stand inside, just like the HD folks have their coffee. "I drank the Kool-Aid, so should you." | ||
| Hootowl |
I drank the Buell-Aid over a decade ago. Mmmmm...Reactor Yellow, my favorite flavor. | ||
| Wolfridgerider |
I think this is the kinda crap our "Anonymous" poster is talking about...  | ||
| Damnut |
LOL The 2 bikes that don't have discounts on that poster, I owned. Actually I don't know if that's funny or sad? | ||
| Oddball |
Red is probably a more realistic retail pricing. | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
For 5 bucks more, I'll take an 1125r please. | ||
| Firebolt020283 |
how is that poster crap? I wish I had 10 grand I would take that place up on there offer I am not going to lie I can't afford to buy 12,000 motorcycles even though I would love to own one. Thankfully I can wait a few years and buy the same bike for several thousand less. I have never owned a new motorcycle because of this fact. Heck I have only owned one new car and I hated it so I did not own it for long. I would rather pick up used vehicles because I can get them cheaper. I can fix things and I like to tinker so I don't care about warranties which is the only reason I can see paying so much more for a new bike/car as apposed to a year old one of the same model. | ||
| Wolfridgerider |
how is that poster crap? Look at it from a sellers point of view. If I could get a new bike for half price I'm gonna do it but I don't see how that helps the brand. I'm in sales and "My mission is commission". Why would I want to sell you something if it doesn't help put food on my table or keep a roof over my head. | ||
| Firebolt020283 |
well think of it this way some commission is better than no commission. If you don't sell it at all you make nothing if you sell it for less it just means you make less commission than you would have but you still got some money as apposed to none. If you have a motorcycle that you have to sell and no one wants it because it is too expensive then you still aren't going to feed your family. Now if you lower the price and some one buys it you then have some money to feed your family. | ||
| Wolfridgerider |
Not if you don't get paid any commission because the profit margin was to low..... or it ended up selling for less than cost... this isn't Wall Street.... sales people don't get paid a commission when the item is sold for no profit or a loss... |
