| Author |
Message |
    
Bosephus
| | Posted on Saturday, May 30, 2009 - 10:03 pm: | 
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Dont want to go into the saga but where I ended up is this........
Before complete warm up tested stator voltage 26v AC at idle and 47v AC at 2000 rpm.
Voltage at battery was only 12.1v DC so checked ground no star washer so ran new ground for regulator and voltage came up to 13.8v DC.
Then let it warm up to 165 C and begain to stall so checked stator and same results as before but checked voltage at battery and voltage ranged from 6v to 13v !!!
Bad regulator, short or am I missing something with the stator ?? |
Tdman77
| | Posted on Sunday, May 31, 2009 - 12:36 am: |
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Sounds like a bad regulator. Check by replacing with a know good one. If you don't have a spare see if you can get one of your sportster buddies to come over and do a quick swap to check it out. |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Sunday, May 31, 2009 - 02:38 pm: |
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The whole system is interdependent, it makes it a bear to test.
A running bike should never make the battery go *down* if the charging system is working. But as you already discovered, a bad ground can make it look like it did, when something else is happening.
Your best bet might be to just march through the service manual step by step, and replace what it says to replace... |
Bosephus
| | Posted on Sunday, May 31, 2009 - 04:06 pm: |
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The battery never goes down since the charging system works until hot then voltage fluctuates. How about a bad ground from the regulator to the system ? I found a new regulator at a dealer 2 hours away but want to make sure before I just replace it although much easier fix than the stator and probably needs to even if it's the stator ! |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Monday, June 01, 2009 - 07:20 pm: |
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If it were me, I'd try and diagnose it when the problem appears. Heat it up until the voltage drops, then look at either the stator output (disconnected from the VR) or shut the bike off quickly and try and get an impedance test.
It's hard to test the VR, easier to spot a failed stator (as it is the easiest part to isolate). Either it's disconnected and the bike is running and it is not putting out high voltage (and you know it is bad), or it is shorted to ground without the bike running (and you know it is bad).
Take off the derby cover and take a whiff. Thats another way to spot a bad stator... |
Bosephus
| | Posted on Monday, June 01, 2009 - 08:36 pm: |
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Reep,
I have and the stator still puts out good voltage 51v AC at 2000 rpm also notice when disconnecting the stator from the VR idle speed increases. My thinking that when I disconnect the stator no voltage being presented to the VR and running from a constant voltage of the battery to the bike. When stator placed back to the VR voltage and idle flucuate. How do I determine a short from the VR to the charging system so far I have tried resistance testing between the connector and the + battery terminal as well as where it connects to the Starter no resistance present but only done when not at running temps ??? |
Id073897
| | Posted on Monday, June 01, 2009 - 11:57 pm: |
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Check stator wire continuity to ground, should be infinite. Check stator wire resistence between wires, should be low (< 0.3 ohms IIRC, take a look at the manual)
AC output might look fine with a grounded stator too, depending on the resistance, but the stator won't deliver enough power to drive the VR correctly. Stator failure is reported to be a common issue. |
Bosephus
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 02, 2009 - 01:25 am: |
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Stator resistance once I had a good tester showed a steady 0.3 ohms and never continuity to ground although tested below running temps. The only test of the stator at high temps showed 26v AC at idle and 48v AC at 2000 rpms. I am getting a new regulator tomorrow and going to put it threw the gammett. Hopefully this is the gremelin I have been chasing for a month after the HD/Buell dealership had it four times............ |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 02, 2009 - 11:20 am: |
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Sounds like your stator is OK. I would still do the "sniff test" by removing the primary cover. It actually may be one of the most reliable tests you can do to detect a bad stator.
Sounds like the stator is OK though. The idle increase when you disconnect the VR could either be a confused ECM (rapid spike in the DC voltage), or could be just the fact that removing the shunt regulator takes maybe a 1 HP load off the motor (which at idle, is maybe 20% of the power the motor makes).
You can whittle away at one more component. Take a charged car battery, jumper it to the bike with the bike battery removed, and see if you can repeat the symptom. That would at least let you take the battery out of the equation.
A VR failure is not unreasonable. An intermittent stator ought to charge the battery, then "die", but the bike ought to keep running fine off the battery at that point. You should have about 50 miles of range in fact, even with the headlight on.
But a dead VR could be shorting both the battery and the stator to ground, and dropping the voltage below where the bike will still run. Or creating an over voltage situation... and I would not be surprised if the ECM detects this and shuts things down to protect itself.
So if you are in the "guessing" phase, a VR is not a bad one, and its an easy part to replace for testing. |
Xb9sbear
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 02, 2009 - 06:28 pm: |
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Is this the S3T yer having problems with? |
Bosephus
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 02, 2009 - 08:05 pm: |
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It is in indeed ! I have just got home with a new VR and it will go in and be tested within the hour. I will post my results. |
Bosephus
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 03, 2009 - 12:00 am: |
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Well guys looks like there might be a nice parts bike on the market!!!!!!!!!!
The VR solved nothing and about over it !Stator still tested good when hot showing 27v at idle and 48v at 2000 rpm. Hot or cold only reading 11.5 to 12.6 volts at the terminals if stator shows good with a new VR should'nt it be 13.5 to 14.5 ???
Any new ideas would be mucho appriciated dont really want to chop it up but getting close. |
Bosephus
| | Posted on Thursday, June 04, 2009 - 12:35 pm: |
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Ok so maybe a little harsh would never chop the bike up but now I did the sniff test and no out of ordinary smell in fact changed the primary oil just recently and seemed fine. One thing I have noticed is the voltage is not flucuating with the new VR but still stalling! |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Thursday, June 04, 2009 - 08:11 pm: |
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A bad battery could do that... Unhook the Buell battery, hook up a charged car battery, and fire it up and see what happens.
No welding  |
Bosephus
| | Posted on Friday, June 05, 2009 - 12:49 pm: |
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Tried it from two good car batteries and they would'nt turn the bike over so I charged my bike battery last night and it tested at 13.03v but this morning before putting it back in the bike it was at 12.5v. I did have the battery tested at local auto parts store and it showed good but needed charged. Also found an inscription on the battery from the dealership from 02/2004 so its pretty old. I have recharged it again and letting it sit for a bit to see if it hold the charge. |
Sparky
| | Posted on Friday, June 05, 2009 - 01:59 pm: |
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One thing common to the battery, starter and voltage regulator is the grounding of the battery to the engine and frame.
I'd remove the ground strap at both ends, clean and reinstall them and check the battery ground cable for a secure connection at both ends.
There is also a main ground point on the frame for a bunch of smaller wires; make sure that point on the frame is clean as well as all the lugs secured there.
Verify that the Voltage Regulator ground wire and its attachment point on the frame is clean and secure. |
Bosephus
| | Posted on Friday, June 05, 2009 - 08:56 pm: |
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Sparky,
I am not sure but when testing the VR ground at the main chassis ground I am getting contnuity from both smaller wire connections. One(Single wire) shows resistance of 5.3ohms and the other (two wires) shows no resistance. Looking at the wiring diagram the VR ground looks to be an independant ground so why I am picking it up from both grounds and why one showing such resistance ? |
Sparky
| | Posted on Saturday, June 06, 2009 - 02:27 am: |
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The VR ground point may look like an independent ground on the schematic, but all ground points (when connected) are in reality assumed to be at the same ground potential which is common to the battery negative terminal and the chassis (frame) ground.
Regarding the wire that measures 5.3 ohms, if you removed the wire from its ground point and are measuring 5.3 ohms from the wire to ground, you are reading the resistance of whatever component the wire goes to. That, in itself, isn't cause for alarm. It's probably normal for that circuit, although until you can identify what it goes to, I wouldn't worry about it. |
Bosephus
| | Posted on Saturday, June 06, 2009 - 10:05 am: |
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Thanks just feel I am reaching to find this gremlin ! Back to the battery it has out of the bike fully charged to 13.0v now after 24 hours it is 12.5v. From the service manual it lost 50 percent of its charge overnight !!! Does this really show I have a bad battery or that it's just older ? |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Saturday, June 06, 2009 - 11:00 am: |
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12.5 isn't that bad... but voltage won't tell you everything. |
Sparky
| | Posted on Saturday, June 06, 2009 - 09:30 pm: |
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If the battery is around 5 years old and you're having voltage fluctuations from 6 to 13 VDC with a battery that won't hold a charge, I'd say it's the prime suspect. It's not unheard of to have a battery with an intermittent short when hot. |
Bosephus
| | Posted on Sunday, June 07, 2009 - 10:42 am: |
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Well pulled bike apart again and behind the battery mount found pinched and exposed wiring dont know how I missed it I have been threw the bike 50 times !!!!! Now even with the 5 year old battery reads steady 12.9v to 13.1v but I still stall and now know what the cause has to be !!! |
Bosephus
| | Posted on Friday, June 12, 2009 - 01:25 am: |
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Quick question using ecmspy what should my BAS voltage be ? |
Jmissey08
| | Posted on Friday, June 12, 2009 - 06:43 pm: |
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My brand new 2009 1125R has been down two weeks. My check engine and battery light comes on intermittently. First they tried a software download (my bike didn't have a complete version installed from the manufacture). That didn't fix the problem. Then they realize that my stator is bad. The only problem is that part is on back order for a week or more. This tells me that there is an apparent problem with the 2009 1125R stator if it is on backorder. My advice is if you have problems with your voltage on your bike it is probably going to be your stator. Sounds like this part will eventually be recalled. This is the first bike I have bought and I am severely disappointed with the american product |
Kalali
| | Posted on Saturday, June 13, 2009 - 09:33 pm: |
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If your dealer had some sense he should have taken a stator from a bike in inventory and put it in your bike and not have you wait. Its not like people have lined up to take these bikes of his hands...
Word of mouth is what keeps them in business. |
Bosephus
| | Posted on Monday, June 15, 2009 - 02:21 pm: |
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All is good now found ecmspy voltage readings lower than actual readings at the terminals throwing me off. |
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