| Author | Message | ||
     Stevasaurus |
I, too, can vouch for Jonathon. He and I have never communicated, but I've been surfing the XBoard for many years in anticipation of the day I could get a Firebolt. Every step of the way, Gentleman J' was always willing to share his knowledge and has never showed a smidgen of troll-dom. It would have been great to have 05Z (or any possible future) flashes to have been the original flash, but I am thankful they are updating us as fast as they are. If I were to criticize the bike, I wouldn't look at the engine. As XBSwede said on the prior page: Electronics? Yes. Software? Yes. Bits 'n' Pieces? Yes. Engine? No. I can also say that I've been one of the people complaining about my bike. Even though the odds are in their favor, scads of people having trouble-free bikes doesn't completely discount prospective purchasers' fears of "pulling the short straw." Lastly, I can say I got my bike back yesterday and my charging system finally seems to have been remedied. The grin factor was certainly present even when it had issues, but now that I am not watching the voltage level like a hawk and praying for no idiot lights to come on, I hope to enjoy all of the good times that many of you are having. DAMN, this thing is sweet! | ||
| Rfischer |
Sigh....asking these folks to support their anti-Buell rants with something other than 3rd party hearsay, rumor, and ad hominem arguments.....waste of virtual ink, really. | ||
| Black9 |
If some of you care to look around, I think all 08 Buells, ( XB's)had some fueling glitches also. The same people bagging Buells efforts on the 1125, were some of the same people clamering for them to release a high HP water cooled bike.Give it a little time...early XB's weren't perfect (fragile belts)etc. but they improved ( I owned 3) as will the 1125's .I think it's apparent that the MOTOR is not an issue, and has a TON more potential... | ||
| Ruprecht |
You're obviously not avare, vhat zese krappy bikes kost in Germany and zat spare parts are at least triple the price compared to U.S. So it would be a good idea NOT to mention prices at all. That's definitely no argument pro Buell. I'm in Australia. After the latest price hikes, Buell's are a little cheaper than the latest crop of 1000cc Japanese race reps, and much, much less than anything comparable coming out of continental Europe. The same goes for parts and servicing. It'll be interesting to see what happens with BMW now that they have been pushed out of their comfortable little niche by the fact that their bastion of loyal customers was dying of old age... No more over weight, over priced, over engineered grandpa mobiles, packed with a bunch of gimmicky gadgets that you don't really need? ...and if they are going head to head with the Japanese in price and performance, continuing to move their manufacturing base to China or Taiwan (partnering with Kymco), maybe an end to that reputation for reliability and any attempts at technical innovation too? I think Buell is moving forward with it's 1125 lineup, it certainly grabbed my interest. BMW Motorrad...? The R1200S may well be the last sporting motorcycle BMW makes which retains that real BMW character... and I'd take the 1125R over one of those any day. | ||
| Xl1200r |
Holy hell - sounds like everyone in here has a pinecone shoved up their ass. I don't have a ton of miles on mine, but it has been a great bike thus far. Low speed, low load fueling was a bit off at first, but the latest flash has stopped my quest for an aftermarket fueling solution - I'm that happy with it. Innovations? Regardless of when they came out, Buell is STILL doing things that most other manufacturers are not. As for other brands? All I can think of is Yamahas odd-fire crank new this year... and the article I read that said it gives the bike no discernable advantage. Everybody - on BOTH sides of the fence - listen to me. Bend over, pull your pants down, grab ahold of the pinecone and remove it. Life will get better. | ||
| Xl1200r |
Oh, and brap - you remind me of myself, when I was 14 and thought I knew everything and how to fix the world. | ||
| Id073897 |
Sure, Knecht Ruprecht, you may choose what fits your demands. You may also compare prices in your country as I compare prices in my country and the americans compare prices in their country. Unfortunately it's no argument that crosses any border. And more unfortunately, some people seem not to understand that simple fact. It'll be interesting to see what happens with BMW now that they have been pushed out of their comfortable little niche by the fact that their bastion of loyal customers was dying of old age... Your argument regading BMW customer base hits H-D much harder, as their customers are not even going to die at some future time, they ARE already dead. HFS is on it's best way to chapter 11, both H-D CEO and COO have been replaced recently. Maybe I was just too busy to miss this news about BMW and the BMW bank. Don't assume that the shrinking customer base hits BMW alone - it's a challenge for EVERY manufacturer in Germany. But, and that's what Buell avoided in the last twenty years, BMW has as good reputation - regardless, if merited or not. Image is power. Buell, on the other hand, is overpriced and unreliable. They worked hard to gain this image, and they did it most effectively. BMW wins, Buell loses. BMW leads the statitics of newly registered bikes as long as I can remember, but Buell isn't even listed. BMW tries to enter the low price market with the F series whereas H-D ... buys another overpriced and unreliable motorbike manufacturer, in a vague hope to compensate the german (or european?) 1125 disaster. What about the others? Every fifth bike in Germany is a Honda, every sixth a Suzuki, every tenth a Yamaha and Kawasaki. Even the Hinkleys are selling four times as much as Buell does. So please, tell me, Knecht: are all customers too brain dead to recognize good bikes? Or are some manufacturers just too ignorant to listen to the market, as we have seen at almost every american car manufacturer? Is Honda broke? Or Toyota (although struggling hard)? Not even Porsche, Mr. Chearleader's best friend, managed to do so and they are struggling even harder than Toyota. Amazingly they still export the majority of their products into that country, whose people do not event trust to buy their own cars. Did you ever think about that? Sorry mate, but your arguments fail. I'm in the business for almost thirty years now and I have seen more brands appear and disappear (and sometimes even re-appear) than we both have fingers. I learned one thing: all those brands who tried to survive by ingenuity and elitism on it's own failed. Sooner or later. It's just a question of time. Buell will be next if they keep on their sniffy attitude. | ||
| Pariah |
You know, Brap, that's just the thing. I can't stand armchair critics of technology. Get some education first. Start a tech company and know what you're up against. If you did, you might have a little more respect for what Buell does and not try to pass off your half-baked arrogant claims as useful criticism. You gotta show some humility for all the smart engineers and techs--- people smarter than you and me (OK, maybe not waay smarter than me since I do have a PhD in engineering)--- developing the bikes at Buell. For Blake Sakes... And Gunter--- Buell is far from a "sniffy" company. First of all, at Wisconsin's latitude, there is not a prolonged growing season for allergen producing vegetation. I highly doubt anybody at Buell is a year-round sufferer of pollen allergies. Mold is another story. But if you are possibly suggesting that Buell is an arrogant company, I'd ask you to re-consider that. Them's fighting words. You do not want to start another armed conflict between the US and Germany. We've been down that road. You lost. Remember?! (Message edited by pariah on June 03, 2009) | ||
| Id073897 |
I apologize for my lack of suitable words. And that's another thing I learned: if people run out of arguments, they start to find faults with words or orthography. | ||
| Jaimec |
Holy crap this thread went south fast. Nothing useful here, move along... | ||
| Doughnut |
Move along, move along! Nothing to see here!  | ||
| Dentguy |
OK, maybe not waay smarter than me since I do have a PhD in engineering Holy crap this thread went south fast. Nothing useful here, move along... +1. That's my indicator for a thread gone sour. Engineer boasting. | ||
| Court |
>>>>Buell will be next if they keep on their sniffy attitude. Sniffy attitude? Fortunately . . . that patently inaccurate statement is as accurate as the balance of your post. Congratulations on your feigned omniscience. Your facts are a bit off. | ||
| Mainstreamer |
"You never know it from call volumes or the warranty claims. Where did you get your "high demand" data?" I was dealing with Buell Customer Service about 14 months ago. On several occasions they were unable to take my call and had to make a return call. The return call was accompanied by an apology and a statement that they were very busy. Keeping with the spirit of this thread it would be interesting to see data on call volumes, per unit sold, to both the Aprilia and Buell CS. Can you dig up those numbers Court?? | ||
| Teach |
I probably will get flamed for this, but... I think we have to really listen and actually think about what the other person is saying may have credibility. I have "read" the article that Id073897 referred to and it was a little disturbing. I guess what I am saying is let's really listen to each other and have productive differences of opinions. | ||
| Mainstreamer |
"Crap, do you ever stop?you're like a little yappy dog!. Go chase a car on a freeway...its people like you than take up band width and get in the way of REAL owners discussing their bikes and their experiences so OWNERS can benefit from each other..." No Honda for me at this time. Black9, if your interested in knowing which other MC forums I participate in you can check my profile. No other is quit like this where only "REAL owners" are welcomed and those with differing opinions are called names. Think about the message you send to those here shopping around, perhaps for a new bike. Step back and read some of the threads, it ain't pretty. | ||
| Brapbrapbrap |
"The Real owners" What stupid statement "The Real owners" . I guess Buell has sold enough of these? The price of discussion is you must buy the shoes before you try them on? You cannot ask anyone else how they like the new shoes? Your not loyal to the shoe brand even if you have an older pair from said manufacture. Sniffy is being polite. If the only customers Buell wants is people that shut-up and take there service visits like a man. I guess future customers should go start their own forum, if that sounds stupid is because it is. Being Honest and open is how you grow the family. Teach just left a good post, I hope he is not now a troll. | ||
| Pariah |
Teach, here is the flame you have coming (how dare you support these Buell haters):  No Honda for me at this time. Black9, if your interested in knowing which other MC forums I participate in you can check my profile. No other is quit like this where only "REAL owners" are welcomed and those with differing opinions are called names. Now why would a Buell forum be a little different than a Honda forum? Hmmm... let's see: maybe it's because, in the grand scheme of things, there is a negligible number of us (so few, in fact, for some MC mags Buell does not show up on the RADAR). To survive, we must stick together. There is no room for dissension!! Personally, I love Buell fanaticism. It's refreshing. Blake forbid we become Honda or BMW owners... people who feel no personal connection with their machines. People who ride cold, unfeeling hunks of metal, indistinguishable from every other rider out there. Dolts all of them, to be sure. (Message edited by pariah on June 03, 2009) | ||
| Court |
>>>Teach just left a good post, I hope he is not now a troll. He's not. Both he and Gentlemen Jon had the "cred" to know what they are talking about. I disagree with some of the points, but frankly when either of them speak, I read and listen carefully. I do not have access to Aprilia data. | ||
| Ruprecht |
You're all over the place Gunter. On the one hand you're criticising Buell for not addressing the realities of the international market, and on the other criticising them for outsourcing. You're simultaneously criticising them for failing to be innovative enough, and yet also for ingenuity and "elitism". You're even criticisng Harley Davidson (of all manufacturers...) for not recognising the importance of brand name recognition and market perception! For all your claimed 30 years of market experience, I'm hard pushed to distinguish between your criticisms and those of the individuals who just don't like the way the 1125R looks, and so take every opportunity to bag it for whatever perceived fault they can... I see Buell moving ahead with the 1125R, perhaps not doing enough to turn around the market perception of American vehicles, but hardly a failure. They may still be a niche vehicle, and smaller volume than Triumph and BMW, but they've got my interest. (Message edited by Ruprecht on June 03, 2009) | ||
| Black9 |
Real owners, refers to you....since you been posting on this board, nothing of real value has come out of your mouth because you aren't a REAL OWNER, have no intention of being one, and continually post slanted comments about a product you have NO experience with, giving prospective owners the impression that all 1125's are junk and All suffer the same problems....way to help promote the brand.I have 3 kids that I can listen to if I wanted to hear whining, I visit this board to escape that occasionally, and share friendly exchanges of information about MY hobby...my Buell.I'm not blind to the fact that this bike has had some growing pains, but on the other hand Buell has addressed all of them for me and I couldn't be happier, so if Buell has wronged you in some way...take it up with them, but don't rain on my parade! | ||
| Brapbrapbrap |
I think your shooting reporters and not those writing the news. If you are talking about me, Go read my post and find one that just bashed Buell, you will not find one. I stay away from most of the threads that are mechanical and specific. I have no joy in a less than perfect launch and I would not hang out here if I did not think things are changing for the better. I think many 08 owners are worried that Buell will correct all the issues and improve the looks of the bike, they are worried it will hurt their resale even more. Buell has to get better to survive because the competition. There are sales spike whenever a new model comes out as you just seen with the 1125. The next version that addresses the teething problems will be an even larger success. Unless some of you get the your way and nothing changes in the magic kingdom. Court has hinted that 2010 is a new model, if 08's are still on the floor they will be tough to sell. Owners should talk openly honestly so the evolution occurs faster and more on target and so sales go up now. Sale some bikes rock and roll, before Buell becomes GM's Pontiac division. | ||
| Id073897 |
Your facts are a bit off. Really? Are they, Mr. Chearleader? When have you been in Germany the last time? Had you been talking to other non-Buell motorbikers in Germany lately? Image is not what your customers think about your brand (they are already convinced in some way), image is, what the others think about it. | ||
| Androidgobotron |
Id073897 = troll douche bag | ||
| Madav8tr |
"I think your shooting reporters and not those writing the news. " What exactly are you claiming to be reporting? All I have ever seen you post is negative information that someone else posted and in most of those cases it's 2nd hand info on their part. All you do is agree with them and the regurgitate the useless drivel as though you experienced the issue yourself. Not once I have read of your PERSONAL experience with the 1125. Not once I have read anything of any true substance from you regarding the 1125. Each post you make is either crying about how ugly it is or how poorly it performs or the problems you have read about. I wouldn't exactly call that "shooting the reporter" but more like exposing the troll so a prospective buyer can actually fine relevant information regarding the 1125. You know, the kind of information one might try to find on a forum dedicated to a particular model of motorcycle. "I stay away from most of the threads that are mechanical and specific" That is the most hilarious statement I have ever read on the Badweb. You post in EVERY mechanical thread. Why? Well, that is beyond me since you have absolutely ZERO experience with the bike but yet you are still there posting away like you have a clue what you are talking about. | ||
| Id073897 |
On the one hand you're criticising Buell for not addressing the realities of the international market, and on the other criticising them for outsourcing. Where did I do so? But if it comes to innovations I would agree with you: outsourcing is not innovative, it's just cheap. A typical controller induced decision to save money - not to be innovative. You're simultaneously criticising them for failing to be innovative enough, and yet also for ingenuity and "elitism". No, again I did not. I said "on it's own". Best example: MZ. They failed because of that. Would have been a better decision to purchase the engines from whoever, instead they tried do make their own 1000cc engine. And failed. With grandness, yes, but they failed. They also failed because the never got rid of their former-east-german-sovjet-style-motorbikes image, although neither the company nor the products had anything to do with that any more. You're even criticisng Harley Davidson (of all manufacturers...) for not recognising the importance of brand name recognition and market perception! No once more. I'm sure H-D's brand awareness is comparable to that of Google or Coca Cola. I guess, they would even survive when stopping to sell motorbikes, but just keeping on with t-shirts with the H-D logo imprinted on the chest. I see Buell moving ahead with the 1125R, perhaps not doing enough to turn around the market perception of American vehicles, but hardly a failure. Fact is: they don't sell in Germany. You can deny that or shout at my as loud and as long as you want, but that's the way it is. If they don't sell, it doesn't pay. If it doesn't pay, Buell will lose or leave the market. If it doesn't pay, H-D will going to push Buell harder to reduce costs and increase earnings. This usually brings innovations to an end. Buell has beaten the XB series to death within the last seven years, if you take it as a construction kit it's completely sucked dry and exhausted. The 1125 is not innovative IMO, but just the last attempt to keep the fuelframers alive and generate some revenue for low cost. Hence the use of the rotax engine. And here we come back to outsourcing again and the circle closes. | ||
| Androidgobotron |
like I said... | ||
| Court |
>>>Fact is: they don't sell in Germany. Germany (see recent threads) is one of Buell BEST markets. There was just a huge celebration in Germany and one of the Elves is there several times a year. Funny . . as I type this I am wearing a Buell Hanover shirt. The remaining 2008's sold quite well. These are exciting times. Surround yourself with positive and exciting people. | ||
| Id073897 |
Thus I seem to be mistaken, but I'm sure you misunderstood that statement. I was referring to watercooled models. So, please, could you tell me how many 1125 models were sold in Germany in 2008? And, just for comparison, how many air cooled in the same year? As told before, Buells are not listed in the statistics, otherwise I would check myself. If any possible, please exclude the number of those "sold" to Buell Germany itself for demo and track events use. Great also, that someone provided you with a local shirt, when he went over to the U.S. | ||
| Mainstreamer |
"Now why would a Buell forum be a little different than a Honda forum? Hmmm... let's see: maybe it's because, in the grand scheme of things, there is a negligible number of us (so few, in fact, for some MC mags Buell does not show up on the RADAR). To survive, we must stick together" To survive Buell needs to capture more market share. |
