| Author |
Message |
    
Esa77
| | Posted on Sunday, May 24, 2009 - 08:03 pm: | 
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My 06 xb9sx had the oil light come. I have 18k mile on the bike i change the oil every 3k. I pulled oil switch and had a trickle of oil. I replaced the switch but the light is still on. It will go out when u unplug the switch. I've pulled the lines to make sure there not restricted. I pulled the pump everything looked good but i don't have the tool to measure spacing inside the pump.I put a gauge on to test pressure but it does'nt even register it should have 7-12 psi at idle & 12-17 at 2500rpm. Has anyone had oil pump problems??? |
Id073897
| | Posted on Monday, May 25, 2009 - 01:58 am: |
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Check oil pump gear. Pull oil pump and look at the gear through the oil pump opening. Turn engine to get a view of all sides. |
Esa77
| | Posted on Monday, May 25, 2009 - 11:52 am: |
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When I pulled the pump I could'nt see any signs of wear on either the drive gear in the engine or the driven gear on the shaft in the pump they look new. The pump is spinning just wont move fluid. Thanks four your input Id073897. |
Akbuell
| | Posted on Monday, May 25, 2009 - 12:16 pm: |
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With no noticeable wear on the pump, check to make sure the oil level is correct, and try running the engine and look in the oil tank and confirm whether there is oil circulating. Perhaps a gear is spinning on its shaft, instead of turning the shaft? Can you run the pump on the workbench, perhaps driving it w/ an electric drill or similar? |
Esa77
| | Posted on Monday, May 25, 2009 - 12:50 pm: |
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You can have the bottom off the pump holding it upside down and drive it by hand. all the internal gears rotate I can remove the internal gears place the pump in position on the engine and the drive an driven gears lock together as I would think they should. You can't spin the shaft with them together because the engine is'nt running. I did an oil change just after this all started to eliminate bad or low oil. Its never been but a couple of marks low i check it all the time. |
Akbuell
| | Posted on Monday, May 25, 2009 - 10:33 pm: |
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From the top:
Since the light goes out when you unplug the oil pressure switch, an electrical short can be discounted.
Confirm there is no blockage in the supply line from the oil tank to the pump.
By your description, the oil pump internals and drives appear to be in order.
It is possible that you had a pressure switch fail, and the new one is bad. Rare, but it happens.
Might try pulling the sparkplugs, leave the pressure switch out, and spin the engine over w/the starter, and look for oil flow. |
Esa77
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 26, 2009 - 01:13 am: |
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w/ oil in the tank and the feed line removed from pump oil will run out of the line. I removed the side cover to inspect the drive gear it is fine it turns the pump. I got a gauge at Oreilly to measure the gyrotors in the pump there at.0002 the max is .004 I pulled the cooler off flushed it and it flows i filled it back w oil before i put it back on trying to keep out as much air as I could. I put it all back together left the filter off stated it at fist just a trickle the it gushed i put the filter back on restated it the light went out. ran for a while turn it off
and when i turn key on the light still did'nt come on like it was holding pressure??? So I started it after a few moments the came back on. I pulled the filter turn it over no oil not even a trickle. Is there a special way to burp oil system to remove any air from it? |
Esa77
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 26, 2009 - 01:26 am: |
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Correction the space in the gyrotor was just over .002. Also does anyone know with the pump in your hand but together should you be able to pull the driven gear & shaft up it stops on the snap ring so it wont come out. Or should it not move up & down at all without removing the snap ring? The book does'nt say.
Thanks for your input. |
Rsh
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 26, 2009 - 02:47 am: |
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Have you checked the check ball and spring in the oil filter mount? Maybe it is hanging up. Also in regards to "burping the oil system to remove air" you need to pre fill the oil filter with oil before installing it. Also, silly question do you have the correct oil filter?
(Message edited by rsh on May 26, 2009) |
Id073897
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 26, 2009 - 03:27 am: |
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First question to solve is as akbuell wrote: is the supply line unblocked?
Gerotor clearance might have an impact on oil pressure, but is no reason for not getting any oil out, especially if no pressure applies as with the pump taken out.
Fill oil reservoir with just enough oil to check the oil supply line is unblocked. Connect the pump to the supply line. Turning the oil pump by hand is sufficient to prove it's moving oil. Before this is done, everything else is a waste of effort.
There's no need to check any valves, filters or whatever, unless you know, that the pump itself is working and oil is supplied as required. |
Esa77
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 26, 2009 - 08:20 am: |
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with oil in the tank and the supply line removed from pump oil runs out of the line. the check ball is free and the filter is the same as my old ones. by hand it will pump and its started pumping on its own when hooked back together then it stops again. |
Akbuell
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 26, 2009 - 10:33 am: |
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Sounds like you have a feed problem to the oil pump. First guess is you have either a piece of 'something' in the oil tank that blocks the supply hose, or the inside of the supply hose is delaminating and blocking flow. |
Esa77
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 02:02 am: |
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Akbuell has a great idea with oil feed line to tank may collapse or block itself. The oil pump works by making vacuum for the first 180 degs. of rotation and there has got to be a ton of heat where that feed line is. But oil flows freely from tank to pump I let a full tank of oil drain out thru the line. I think either the oil pump is bad i just cant buy & put it on without a real bike tech confirming it. Pump asm. $188.95. Or the feed line from tank to pump collapsing, or the cooler has become restricted I can blow air thru it but I cant measure the flow of 20/50 thru it lol. I really appreciate everyones help but I am going to take it to my local harley dealer in the morning. I will post updates as they come. Wish me luck....
(Message edited by esa77 on May 27, 2009)
(Message edited by esa77 on May 27, 2009) |
Bombardier
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 03:23 am: |
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My vote is the oil pump drive gear on the pinion shaft.
Firm enough to turn by hand but just stuffed enough to slip when under power.
I would be checking the old filter for bits of metal and the magnetic drain plug as well.
(Message edited by Bombardier on May 27, 2009) |
Id073897
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 05:16 am: |
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This would mean, the key is sheared too. I guess this is to happen with a blocked pump only. Debris large enough to block the pump leaves very clear marks at the upper gerotors and pump housing.
http://ecmspy.com/download/gunter/Oelpumpe.jpg (and that one was not even blocked) |
Bombardier
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 06:02 am: |
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Earlier models were made of a bronze(softer) composition were they not?
Possible that the key is intact and the gear has worn away around the key.
Not blocked but spinning under load on the pinion shaft.
(Message edited by Bombardier on May 27, 2009) |
Id073897
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 08:36 am: |
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Earlier models were made of a bronze(softer) composition
Not that I would know about.
Possible that the key is intact and the gear has worn away around the key.
That's about impossible. The key must either be shared or missing, whereas the latter would also make the cam shaft drive turn, because it's supported by the oil pump gear. |
Gaza
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 06:58 pm: |
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Oiling System Upgraded in all 2008 Buell XB`s
A higher-output oil pump supports oiling to the new crankpin area. The new pump is driven off of the crank, a design based on the Buell XBRR production racing motorcycle. |
Id073897
| | Posted on Thursday, May 28, 2009 - 12:40 am: |
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We are sooo gratefull now. After 20 years of neglecting the failing oil pump gears, Buell got a new design! |
Bombardier
| | Posted on Thursday, May 28, 2009 - 08:38 am: |
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The oil pump drive gear was updated on the 07 model and used the optional performance oil pump gear. The o8 and later is a completely different design I believe and cannot be retrofitted to an earlier (pre 08)engine. |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Thursday, May 28, 2009 - 07:03 pm: |
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The original oil pump pinion gear was a hard material, and would wear on some bikes, not on others. WhiteBuell did a great summary of the problem, and a solution, and it worked great.
Zippers used to offer an aftermarket softer bronze pinion gear that would mitigate the problem to some degree, but they discontinued it.
Buell offered the "race only" unobtanium drive gear, that solves the problem, and is retrofittable to older bikes. I.m pretty sure that was stock in 2006 and up.
In 07 (I think) they quietly improved the stock pump.
In 08, the whole oiling system was improved. |
Esa77
| | Posted on Sunday, May 31, 2009 - 11:32 am: |
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I got my bike back yesterday. It has 17890 miles. After the local dealer had it a few days they could'nt get it to pump much more than 5 psi but the pump was in spec. They contacted harley tech assistance they told them to replace comp. oil pump assy. The drive gear on the o6 is updated. And to my surprise Harley did a good will warranty I got parts and labor paid by harley I did'nt ask they offered. They have a new pump for them dew to an internal failure. The dealer was just as shocked as me that Harley offered to foot the bill. If thats not standing behind a product I don't know what is my hats off to Denneys Harley in springfield Mo. and to Harley-Davidson as a whole. Thanks to everyone for your input.
(Message edited by esa77 on May 31, 2009)
(Message edited by esa77 on May 31, 2009) |
Akbuell
| | Posted on Sunday, May 31, 2009 - 12:02 pm: |
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Great news. Ride and enjoy!!!! Dave |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Sunday, May 31, 2009 - 02:09 pm: |
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Can't beat that! Thats a fairly big job... |
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