| Author |
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Doerman
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 09:36 pm: | 
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Hard to tell if there's much of a performance difference after the K&N. My butt-dyno isn't quite as calibrated as it should be. There is a little more airbox noise, which is a good thing.
I bought it for the ease of maintenance. It achieves that goal. |
Marcodesade
| | Posted on Thursday, May 28, 2009 - 01:01 am: |
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On my bike, based solely on the butt-dyno, I see a marked increase in low-end grunt. This is certainly enhanced by the accompanying snarl, but for sure it's quicker.
(Message edited by marcodesade on May 28, 2009) |
Sparky
| | Posted on Thursday, May 28, 2009 - 03:12 am: |
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Ponti is questioning why his is getting better mileage after replacing a fairly dirty original air filter with a clean free flowing one.
Well, it's always been my experience that when I replace a dirty air filter with a clean one, my car or bike gets better mileage, especially if installing a free-flowing filter.
It only makes sense because a dirty air filter can somewhat restrict air flow and cause the engine to require more fuel to meet the throttle demand, all else being equal.
Therefore it follows that a non-restricted filter would allow the engine to breathe freely and meet the throttle demand per its fuel calibration, thus yielding better mileage. Doesn't K&N say so in their advertising? |
Ponti1
| | Posted on Thursday, May 28, 2009 - 07:13 am: |
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Sparky, my intent with mentioning the mileage and increased temperature was to illustrate that it is using more air and less fuel. I'm not questioning that this would result in better MPG, but am in disbelief that it is appropriate to see the ECM reduce AFV values. My theory on the increased fuel economy is because of the AFV change, I am now using 10% less fuel up front and 5% less in the rear.
Based on my limited knowledge, increasing airflow should require the ECM to also increase AFV to maintain the pre-preogrammed 14.7 A/F ratio. Other than Gunter's condescending input, the only person making an attempt at explaining why this may be is Buelldyno_guy (thank-you, by the way).
Remember that my original question was:
Please, somebody, throw out some ideas as to how it could be possible that the bike needed to lean out the mixture with the K&N. I was expecting to probably see maybe 1-3% increase in fueling due to the better flow of the new filter, and am completely stumped.
Don't get me wrong, I appreciate hearing other people's experiences with their AFV's changing or not. The fact that nobody else seems to have had fuel removed after K&N install is a concern to me.
Whether the bike "feels faster" has no relation to what I was hoping to discover. I just was looking for an explanation as to why, under varying conditions for thousands of miles, I have never before seen an AFV change. Now, with K&N added, I immediately see fuel reduced.
Hope that explains where I'm coming from a little better. The thread was started is because I am concerned. Could there be something perhaps wrong that would incorrectly cause the AFV to be reduced? For example, does anyone know the diagnostic procedure for verifying proper O2 sensor functioning? |
Buelldyno_guy
| | Posted on Thursday, May 28, 2009 - 02:30 pm: |
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The problem with knowing just a little bit about something and sharing it here is that now days almost any post explaining something (in this case what Ponti1 asked) just seems to start a debate. So here is what I posted earlier, run richer in some cells. Not all cells, but again if cells in closed loop learn got a point or two richer that would drive the AFV down.
This is how during a run a typical change to an ADV of 95 would be corrected. First note which cell caused the change, then bring the bike back to idle and without shutting the bike down reset the AFV to 100%. Next with the bike still running and while still on the same heat cycle remove three clicks of fuel at that cell send to to the ECM and go back into closed loop learn and recheck the same cell. I know ECM Spy can't do this to an 1125 so another program is needed to make the correction. But again but this is how it is done on an XB with only one AFV and it will work the same on the 1125 with it's two. Terry |
Velocity
| | Posted on Thursday, May 28, 2009 - 11:28 pm: |
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Ponti, I like you installed a K&N with a stock pipe, I had no ill affects. My R is an 08 with the 05Z flash. I did however move both front and rear O2 sensors to the collector on each pipe. My Front and rear numbers where 100/100 before and after the 05Z flash. Here is the interesting part after moving the sensors and putting 400 miles on it they are staying 105/105. Bike runs great, it seems from bike to bike they are all slightly different. I'm in Va. and its been warm and muggy. I have been reading all this ecm stuff and all, I have not made my mind up if to start messing with it more? Not really an answer to your question just an example of what I have done.
Scott |
Doerman
| | Posted on Friday, May 29, 2009 - 12:33 pm: |
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Hmm..
What you are telling us Velocity triggers another thought.
I would imagine that all injectors are not created 100% equal. Two injectors would not deliver the exact same amount of fuel in the same time span. This is because of manufacturing variance.
So if that is the case, would that explain some of the differences we see between between bikes that are otherwise identically equipped?
If so, then the AFV adjustment is a really intelligent way to compensate for injector manufacturing variance. |
Bikejunky
| | Posted on Friday, May 29, 2009 - 01:54 pm: |
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Ponti -
Spoke to our buell tech, he says that you should be able to have the AFV reset to 100 (it may take a couple of resets) but that it should force the ecm to relearn the fueling to help compensate for the higher air flow. |
Velocity
| | Posted on Friday, May 29, 2009 - 03:04 pm: |
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Doerman, tolerances or conditions/temp etc,must be several things stacking up too give some of you guys grief. I cant imagine that the ecm's are so sensitive. Still seems that there are so many different situations and Afv's are running the board. Weird no two are the same.
Scott |
Ponti1
| | Posted on Friday, May 29, 2009 - 08:24 pm: |
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Bikejunky-
I thought of resetting it myself, but wanted to wait a few hundred more miles to see if it adjusts back on its own. I'm now at about 350 miles since I saw the initial drop in AFV, and still sitting at 90f/95r.
I think I'll wait until early next week, and then set them back to 100 before the trip out to East Troy. If they drop back to 90f/95r again, I'll have a nice conversation piece if I happen to get the chance to pick the brain of any of those smart folks at BMC.
Otherwise, I'll just ride her until I get back home, and then work on getting some proper A/F metrics logged. |
Ponti1
| | Posted on Sunday, June 07, 2009 - 10:11 am: |
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Okay, back from Homecoming. After another ~1300 miles on the bike, AFVs are now reading 94.5f/95r... |
Bikejunky
| | Posted on Sunday, June 07, 2009 - 02:41 pm: |
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Ponti1-
did you pick up any interesting tidbits? |
Rainman1ne
| | Posted on Sunday, June 07, 2009 - 03:15 pm: |
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i just checked mine and im sitting at 100/84.6. WTF!!! Bike is running like crap |
Ponti1
| | Posted on Sunday, June 07, 2009 - 04:41 pm: |
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Bikejunky, interesting tidbits? Now, I admit I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed...I'm not sure I understand. 
Rainman, is this with a K&N? If so, when did you add it? Have you noticed any increase in coolant temp readings? |
Rainman1ne
| | Posted on Sunday, June 07, 2009 - 04:56 pm: |
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yes, i installed the filter about a year ago ( the toyota filter rigged to fit our bikes ) didn't notice the AFV changes were that bad till i had the last reflash. |
Bikejunky
| | Posted on Sunday, June 07, 2009 - 05:59 pm: |
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Ponti1 -
oh you mentioned that you went to homecoming so I was just asking if you happened to pick up any interesting information while at homecoming. musta been a quick trip for ya. |
Ponti1
| | Posted on Monday, June 08, 2009 - 07:56 am: |
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Oh....yes. Well, I left to head home early because I was camping and the weather turned to crap. It was going to rain for three days, so I figured I'd just beat the rain back and enjoy a few days of sunny, 80-degree weather here in PA.
As far as interesting information, I did hear that none of the 2010 models will have no "major" changes, but they are working on some "significant" improvements for release in a "future year". Not sure what to make of that exactly, but it's all I heard. |
Bikejunky
| | Posted on Monday, June 08, 2009 - 11:40 am: |
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HMMM I wonder... ... |
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