| Author | Message | ||
     Fast1075 |
Watching the "Indy" 500...the once great showcase of technology and innovation is gone forever. Reduced to cookie cutter replicars...wanna run?? join the Honda club... I remember the days of run what ya brung..everything from the venerable Offenhauser 4 bangers to anything else that could burn methanol...Smokey Yunick's stock block turbo Chevys...Granatelli's turbine car...even a AMC inline 6 turbo motor... Yes the new cars are safer...yes, the playing field is level...but like your favourite old t-shirt...the colors have faded...the excitement is gone right along with the innovation and variety. Indy was once the great american race...now it is just another race in a series...where the only difference between cars is paint and drivers. Boo, Hiss...cry a little...at least I have the memory of 1968...I can still remember the sound of the Offy's at full boost and the smell of real Methanol... Maybe in a few more years there will be a full perimeter nerf wall and automated braking and steering controls...powered by Briggs and Stratton electric green engines. Driven by a fleet of those Asimo robots. Thank God we still have motorcycles..at least there is variety...and the "underdog" can still win...go Buell!! (the most uncookie cutter bikes in the world)... | ||
| Firebolt020283 |
if it was up to the jap 4 sportbike racing would be cookie cutter too. But good thing is there are companies like buell and ducati that keep that from happening. | ||
| Slaughter |
I was working in "da biddness" when they changed over to the fuel economy rules - which effectively killed the Offy. That BEAST of a 2.6L 4-banger (inline four to boot!) could pump out the power when running ONE HUNDRED INCHES of boost on methanol! We converted a few of our cars from the Offenhauser 2.6 litre 4 cylinder (methanol) to the Cosworth DFX 2.6L V-8 (gas) in order to make the mileage needed. For a season though, it WAS interesting hearing the mix of the 4 and 8 cylinder machines. Unfortunately, John Drake couldn't keep the Offy alive and went broke trying to build his V-8 | ||
| Slaughter |
Had a few guys driving our cars back then: Bobby Unser  Mike Mosley  Roger McCluskey  Bobby Olivero  | ||
| Slaughter |
Listening now: http://www.indy500.com/radionetwork | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
I was working in "da biddness" when they changed over to the fuel economy rules I dont really follow Indy car. What's up with fuel economy rules?? | ||
| Slaughter |
Back in the fuel crisis in the late 1970s, the Arab oil embargo, USAC limited the amount of fuel on board and required 2 pit stops. Prior to that, there were people carrying more than 80 gallons of methanol. Swede Savage's death really hammered home the whole craziness of carrying so much fuel. The V8 just got much better economy at the lower turbo boost on gasoline. The Offy could tolerate HUGE amounts of boost but alcohol and heavy turbocharging meant TERRIBLE fuel economy. | ||
| Glitch |
What's up with fuel economy rules?? Back in the mid seventies there was this awful fuel shortage. Long lines at the pump, pushing your car the last block or so, only to have the station run out of gas. I believe it was Jimmy Carter that put the economy into motor sports. We learned a lot from back then...not | ||
| Glitch |
I type slow  | ||
| 46champ |
I watched the whole race. The only reason it was close at all was because there were enough wrecks to bunch up the field. The only passing that took place was in the pits or just after the green flag was thrown. The cars need more horsepower and less downforce this is the problem with spec car racing no one can pass. | ||
| Fast1075 |
I got to see a couple of those cars on display a couple of years ago at the St. Pete G.P. .... some real history there... And I forgot the Cosworth, sorry...but that reminds me of a buddy that transplanted a 1.6 DOHC Cosworth/Kent motor from a Europa into his Pinto back in '73...lets say it ran better than a Pinto should  | ||
| Just_ziptab |
Results
| ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Shut up Fast! There should only be ONE type of car. That way we can showcase rider skill. When you have different kinds of car, it's inherently unfair. It's SOOOOOO much more exciting when it's all the same car over and over and over and over....... In case you can't tell, I'm being sarcastic. The very same people who dislike IRL and NASCAR decry Daytona Sportbike for not being just like them. | ||
| Spdkls |
i got to watch the end of the race. it looked to me that danica had a fast enough car to win but the cars seem to accelerate much more slowly now so she couldn't jump on weldon to catch helio. i agree with fast, indy is the nascar of open wheels. make them all the same and the "best" driver wins, but not always! the top racing leagues need to get it together, cookie cutter racing is fine for the up-and-comer racers. let the big boys do what they are paid to do. drive the fastest machines they can be given. its like pro athletic sports, if you can't handle the speed of the game, whatever game it is, go to the minors. | ||
| Slaughter |
I also agree - pro sports SHOULD have a class at the "top" Let's stop pretending to restrict athlete use of drugs and hormones and steroids. If you're gonna GO for it, go BIG. | ||
| Easy_rider |
The problem becomes that the richest guys will dominate the league. Sort of what F1 has become. Somehow the powers-that-be have to work toward a happy medium, where there's room for innovation without only the guys that can afford the best innovation win. I'm not sure how they pull it off, though. | ||
| Slaughter |
I've ALWAYS thought that claiming rules when actually USED would force automatic restriciton on use of hard-to-get stuff - in ANY motor sport. HECK, institute claiming rules in Pro ball! Say $100K for a liver? $350K for a heart... maybe as much as $3.98 for a brain. I think it could work. | ||
| Akbuell |
Ah, yes. Had the privilege of listening to a great mix of engines, back in the '60s. Will not forget the NOVI's Grantelli ran (in AWD chassis, IIRC), with the tires painted to resemble white walls. Awesome sound!! | ||
| Just_ziptab |
This is the Indy 500........  | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Having homogenized engine/chassis types allows ONLY refinement withing THAT mode. What engineering solutions are allowed when the box is bigger than an IL4 or Honda IRL car? | ||
| Hr_puffinstuff |
i went to the iNdY500 and i had a really good time... who won? j/k... it was cool to see Castroneves get his 2nd win. that's the thing about GOING to the 500 - you will have a good time, no matter what happens on the track. saturday night, we saw this fine young thing running across 16th wearing nothing but a string of beads! good friends, good food, good times! | ||
| 46champ |
Slaughter do you know where the tooling went when Offenhauser closed down? Are the guys with the Offy's just out of luck or is somebody making some stuff to keep them running? Just wondering what happened to the 2nd to the last great American race engine. | ||
| Slaughter |
John Drake finished as the Offy guy... and TRYING to build up his 2.6L turbo V8 ended up breaking the company. Don't know WHERE all the last of the Offenhauser tooling got off to. Interesting question! Offy didn't just do the 2.6L 4-cylinder Indy engines, they built all sorts of midget and other race engines. Amazing motor - SOLID 1-piece engine from the oil pan gasket to the DOHC journals. NO SUCH THING as bolts to hold the cylinders or heads in place. Rugged - but back before the rules changed, they put out 1000HP on alcohol and could do more if asked. (Message edited by slaughter on May 25, 2009) | ||
| Slaughter |
 | ||
| Indybuell |
Losing excitement? No way! Record attendance at Carb Day. New 3 time winner at age 34. Next year is going to be chocked full of great story lines. Will Helio be able to Join the exclusive 4 win club? Will Danica be able to improve on her 3rd place finish and grab the first win by a female driver at Indy? Will the Chip Ganassi team get it together and grab another win? I think that there is a lot more excitement around the Indy 500 this year, than there has been since the split. | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
I hear that Honda will be up next season for the possibility of being in NASCAR too. | ||
| Slaughter |
Janet Guthrie also drove one of our cars. The pics above and this one here are of the Lindsey Hopkins Lightning:  | ||
| Slaughter |
Also built the last-dying-gasp of the Offy - the "Laydown" car. This was with the engine laid on its side. Induction on "top" with exhaust on "bottom" Sure looked cool but it just couldn't compete with all the Cosworth DFX engined cars... and the V8 just killed Drake Engineering.   (Message edited by slaughter on May 26, 2009) | ||
| Just_ziptab |
I once heard that Offy put their raw castings in the ocean to"season" them.  | ||
| 46champ |
If any of you guy's want to see a bullet proof lower end look at some drawings of the Offy's it is so different than any thing else as to almost be bazar. Maybe Slaughter can print some drawings hint hint. | ||
| Mark_weiss |
Drivers have been complaining for years that they cannot get close behind another car without losing their front end downforce. F1 just raised the minimum height of the rear wing (among other things) and it has made a considerable difference. IRL should consider the same. Maintain grip for safer racing, make adjustments to allow for more competition. Mark in Arizona | ||
| M1combat |
F1 is awesome this year... Well, compared to the last ten anyhow. | ||
| Indybuell |
Wait until next year when the American team enters the field. | ||
| Fast1075 |
I agree...F1 is the schizzit...anything that idles at 7K is pretty wild in my book. |
