| Author | Message | ||
     Georgehitch17 |
Hey guys i took my bike out this past Sunday i was just cruising going over to a friends. I was going about 40 and slowing down to turn i shifted into first and all of the sudden my bike started making a rapid thud noise. I pulled over as fast as i could and looked. My belt broke the outside of it was still intact but like 5 rubber teeth were ripped and hanging on by threads. i pulled in my friends driveway going like 10 mph and look for damage there was none but this bike has like 1700 miles on it. Good thing this didnt happen on my 1000 mile round trip the day before that could of been bad. Im thinking this should be under warranty because of the low miles is that what i should expect from the dealer?? Thanks | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Should not be a problem. Covered under warranty. | ||
| Geforce |
While belt failures are rare, especially at 1k miles there's no telling what happened to it. It should be covered under warranty. Your dealer should be able to get you back on two wheels again soon. Good luck. | ||
| Georgehitch17 |
Alright i contacted my local dealer and asked about it being a warranty item she said she would call me back and its been four hours so im trying to find a belt in ohio does anyone have any idea where i could find one of these??? | ||
| Badlionsfan |
Give western reserve HD Buell in mentor a shout. They're the most Buell friendly dealer we got up here. | ||
| Georgehitch17 |
i gave them a call they were out of stock but did tell me where i could find one. so i had my dealer buy it from the place in youngstown. | ||
| Badlionsfan |
Biketown had it huh? I'm impressed. | ||
| Georgehitch17 |
yea it should be running again by thursday and maybe wednesday i wish they would let me install the belt but in order for it to be covered by warranty they have to install it. | ||
| Thruster |
Hi George! I started a thread on this topic some time ago. There are various possibilities, but my guess is that you were a little slow with your left foot, shifting from second to first, and ended up lingering for just a second or two in neutral, which allowed a mismatch to develop between the input shaft to the tranny (which slowed down while in neutral) and output shaft (still going fast, being driven by the rear wheel and belt), especially if you were still going 40 mph -- I did it at only 25! Then, when you finally did click it into first, a very sharp decelerating impulse was delivered to the belt, due to the resting inertia of the input shaft relative to the rapidly-spinning output shaft. In first gear, the input shaft wants to spin very fast when the rear wheel is going slow. When you allow the reverse condition to develop, by coasting in neutral, then suddenly engage first, that's when you impart a sharp decelerating impulse to the belt. In my case, it snapped the belt rather than just strip a few teeth. Here are the links with the technical discussion (with the most credit going to Al Lighton of AmericanSportBike.com): http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/327 77/390545.html?1219772111 http://www.badweatherbikers.com/cgibin/discus/disc us.cgi?pg=next&topic=32777&page=390545 Moral of story -- Don't coast in neutral! And if you do by accident, come to a full stop with only the brakes (while still in neutral) before engaging first gear, or, if you must engage a gear while still moving, slow down as much as you can with the brakes, and shift up to second, not down to first. You can also let out the clutch lever while still in neutral, blip the throttle (to spin-up the input shaft to the tranny via the downstream side of the clutch), pull in the clutch again, then engage second, but that's probably just academic and too complicated to do in practice. In the end, I concluded that in my case it was not "just a pebble" or bad belt. Furthermore, although Buell and HD did replace the belt under warranty, I found it odd that they lacked the patience to discuss the details, while obstinately sticking to their pebble conspiracy theories. | ||
| Jaimec |
Shouldn't the slipper clutch prevent that kind of damage?? (Message edited by Jaimec on May 12, 2009) | ||
| Thruster |
Once again, the clutch is disengaged (clutch lever pulled all the way in) throughout the entire sequence of events I described, so the fact that it happens to be a slipper in the 1125R/CR is not relevant. | ||
| Pariah |
Another great reason to blip the throttle whenever the revs dip too low. Didn't realize it could save the belt! Thanks for posting, Oleh. | ||
| Thruster |
Blipping while continuing to hold the clutch lever pulled in all the way won't help anything in the scenario I described (i.e., the "coasting in neutral" scenario). You'd really need to let out the lever while still coasting in neutral (having accidentally gotten yourself into that state), then blip the throttle (to spin-up the output basket of the clutch), then pull in the clutch lever while the revs are still up, then quickly engage a gear while hoping (or praying) that the output basket is still spinning at the right rate. The likelihood of getting all this right is understandably slim, which is why, if you do find yourself in neutral while underway, I instead advocated to simply come to a full stop with only the brakes (keeping the clutch pulled in and tranny in neutral), then engage first gear while stopped. Better still, just learn to keep your left foot action accurate and snappy (though not forcefully so), to avoid accidentally finding yourself in neutral while underway. | ||
| Marcodesade |
Would hard engine braking also do this? | ||
| Thruster |
No. Even if you pop the clutch, the change in force is much more gradually applied than when you suddenly engage two gears that are spinning at very different rates. I would not expect the stress on the belt during hard engine braking to be significantly greater than during hard acceleration. | ||
| Marcodesade |
OK, so if I'm understanding this right (sorry, I'm a n00b, and not that bright to begin with) it's JUST from riding the clutch while downshifting to 1st at about 40? | ||
| Georgehitch17 |
thats what i was doing i was slowing down in second gear shifted to first and held the clutch in for like 5-10 seconds while i was coasting and when i let out it was just like bam bam bam. it didnt snap the belt it just stripped some teeth. But its all good they overnighted a belt and i should have it back today. | ||
| Zac4mac |
The slipper won't work in that scenario. At idle, there is little to no vacuum to operate it. You need the high vacuum of hard engine braking to get it. That's why "racing slippers" are mechanical and PRICEY. I still blip the throttle to match rpms when I down-shift. I have hit a couple of false neutrals while clutch-less shifting(when it's really cold outside), the clunk at re-engagement has startled me a couple of times. BTW - the belt that rode, coiled up tightly, under my seat for 2 months now has 1800 miles on it. Glad you're back up quickly George. Z | ||
| Thruster |
No Mark, the logic is a bit more twisted than that. The drive train has three components that can spin independently of each other: Engine crankshaft, input shaft to transmission, and output shaft from transmission. The first two are decoupled when the clutch lever is pulled in, and the second two are decoupled when you are in neutral. When both are decoupled, the middle component is allowed to come to rest, even when the third component is still spinning (due to coasting). When you engage first gear under those conditions, the rapidly-spinning gear connected to the output shaft will instantly engage with the stationary gear connected to the input shaft, and bingo, you get a near-instantaneous impulsive decelerating load delivered to the belt, like a hammer striking glass. It doesn't have to be a heavy or torquey load to compromise the belt, just impulsive. In my case it snapped the belt. I'm guessing that in George's case it may have sheared several teeth at the smaller cog when he shifted into first, then he heard the thumping when he let the clutch out and started to engine-brake. Well, that's what I think most likely happened, and it makes more sense to me than just assuming it was a pebble, bad belt, or bad luck. By the way, I also would like to credit Hugh Odom (Hughlysses) for first pointing out, in my earlier threads, the basic mechanism behind the phenomenon we're discussing. Al then fleshed out the idea with more technical and structural details. | ||
| Pariah |
Oleh, thanks for the clarification. As coming to a stop once coasting in neutral may be impossible, it's probably good to commit that procedure down to memory--- which sounds a lot like double clutching, actually. I guess the first blip while in neutral with clutch out has to be fairly strong. But it's always a bit unsettling to blip with clutch out... I don't think my brain likes the idea, at least on a motorcycle. I know for a fact that I have missed 1st to 2nd a number of times and have coasted in neutral (not for very long, mind you). Don't think I was going very fast in any of these instances. I would just repeat the upshift to second, and have done so without any problems. Maybe there is an additional "unlucky" factor here, where some components have to mesh poorly as well? | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Good info, guys. Explains the ugly sounds emanating the gearbox when shifting into gear after coasting in neutral. | ||
| Marcodesade |
OK, I *think* I get it now - the part about the 3 stages certainly makes sense, and I see how disengaging both the clutch and the transmission (via neutral) could cause a jolt. So is it only an issue when going to 1st? Or could the same thing happen if I blow the shift up to second (and end up in neutral)? Because I HAVE done that a few times; I don't remember missing on the way down to first. Thanks for the info! | ||
| Fresnobuell |
For me, it always happens with a lazy shift from 1st to 2nd. I don't think I have ever had it happen going from 2nd to 1st. Interestingly enough, when stopped and trying to find neutral, often it's easier to find it coming down from second rather than shifting up from first. |
