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Eshardball
Posted on Sunday, May 10, 2009 - 07:14 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

While looking at a link to a Sport Rider tire article, I found a link to a Ceramic balancing product that claims to be the best thing since sliced bread. Anyone have any experience with this? please chime in.
http://www.innovativebalancing.com/?gclid=CMHEzMTL sZoCFQFHFQod5BapdA
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Ebutch
Posted on Sunday, May 10, 2009 - 07:42 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Dam must be installed by dealers!
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Tdman77
Posted on Sunday, May 10, 2009 - 10:40 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

There is a long thread in the KV about these. Or you can just PM Blake and see what the thinks of them.
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Redefine420
Posted on Sunday, May 10, 2009 - 11:06 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

There are a bunch of videos about them on youtube. You can install them yourself. I think I'll try them.

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Ebutch
Posted on Sunday, May 10, 2009 - 11:37 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

http://www.whitehorsepress.com/product_info.php?pr oducts_id=5614 Here,s where for doit-yourselfers

(Message edited by ebutch on May 10, 2009)
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Ebutch
Posted on Sunday, May 10, 2009 - 12:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

http://www.whitehorsepress.com/advanced_search_res ult.php?keywords=dyna+beads&whpsid=cfbad706dcc155b 7ec395177af10b169&search_in_description=1&submit=g o
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Tdman77
Posted on Sunday, May 10, 2009 - 03:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Ebutch - Have you used them? I am just wondering because the quote Blake "There nothing but snake oil!" A few years back when I use to track my GSXR I stopped by the Suzuki race tent and asked their tire guy about balancing tires. They balance all their race tires with a static balancer. When I asked him about balancing beads he laughed and told me that they are a gimmick. "If they really worked then why are the manufactures not using them?"

I use a static balancer I made and have had no problems even up to 120+mph.
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Ebutch
Posted on Sunday, May 10, 2009 - 03:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I used to use slime balancer,worked but too messy when you pick up a spike on the road.Thought I give it a try make sents to me.I might be wrong ,I might be right,never know till I give it a try.I hit the triple digits quite often.
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Eshardball
Posted on Sunday, May 10, 2009 - 05:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

They seemed like snake oil but I figured I would see if there was any good feedback from guys that had used them before filling my tires with them and then finding that I had to get them back out with alot more headache than putting them in.
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Eshardball
Posted on Sunday, May 10, 2009 - 05:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

They seemed like snake oil but I figured I would see if there was any good feedback from guys that had used them before filling my tires with them and then finding that I had to get them back out with alot more headache than putting them in.
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Preybird1
Posted on Sunday, May 10, 2009 - 09:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

We use a similar brand product that works well in high speed truck tires 140mph+
we balanced the tires 6 different times and 2 different ways and we always got a shake, We put these in with no balance weight at all and it was so smooth we could not believe they worked. But we did notice a little vibration when the truck would sit and the beads would stick to each other but on the freeway they would break up
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Ebutch
Posted on Sunday, May 10, 2009 - 10:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Sounds good Preybird1!I only use nitrogen in tires any way,very dry and unaffected by temp.In 1999 March bought S2T new.After break-in started using Mobile V 15-50 sythinthetic oil.Harley shop said I was taking a bad chance.I know have 122,000 miles and uses no oil ,no tear-down.Red-Line high impact sym.in tans too.High Tech can be good.
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Gowindward
Posted on Sunday, May 10, 2009 - 10:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I use them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eq263AYgyYg
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Blake
Posted on Monday, May 11, 2009 - 06:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Magic beads that balance a wheel/tire, no matter the imbalance, or if there is none, magically maintain balance?

A sucker is born every minute.
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Phelan
Posted on Monday, May 11, 2009 - 07:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

If I still worked at WalMart, I could find out for you if they work or not in about 5 min. Actually I have friends that still work there, maybe I'll take a wheel and tire and some dyna beads to them and test them on the dynamic balancer. I can see how they'd work in theory. Obviously they won't balance out more than their actual weight, but on a motorcycle tire there shouldn't be much off-weight anyway, maybe an ounce or two. If the balancer comes out even, would you still be so skeptical? BTW it's not magic, but centrifugal force that legitimizes this concept. If you throw a hammer in the air in circles, it doesn't spin at the middle of the hammer. Instead, the handles wails rapidly around the head of the hammer. Now imagine the same weight offset in the form of an innertube. If you put weights in the innertube, centifugal force is going to push the weights to where the least weight is located (from the center out).

(Message edited by Phelan on May 11, 2009)
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Tdman77
Posted on Monday, May 11, 2009 - 07:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

When I was in the service I worked on C-130 aircraft. We used good old fashion wheel weights. Good enough for an aircraft tire, good enough for motorcycle race teams... I think I'll stick with Blake on this one and use my tried and true stick on wheel weights.
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Phelan
Posted on Monday, May 11, 2009 - 07:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I've put on my fair share of stick-ons and rim weights. I can tell you that it's almost pointless in many cases for the general public. Not that they don't work, but that many people don't have their wheels balanced more than once- when they install new tires. Tell me, if your tires on your bike last 5,000 miles, do you take your wheels off at 2500 miles and have them rebalanced? Because they are already out of balance. Especially if the sticky weights fall off... Car tires with as little as 1,000 miles on them have been out .25-1 ounce when I would rotate and rebalance the tires. If the dyna beads work, I will use them over the "tried and true" weights that are only useful for a season. There is a reason we no longer have points in our ignition systems. It's because we found better technology...
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Blake
Posted on Tuesday, May 12, 2009 - 12:36 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Please do try putting an axle through the middle of a hammer's handle and then spinning it. Which end is wanting to spin away from the fixed axle? Yep, the heavy one. If it were hollow, to which end would magic beads gravitate?

Smoke and mirrors and half truths aimed at taking your money from you.
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Phelan
Posted on Tuesday, May 12, 2009 - 12:54 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I'll order some just to have my TLE friends try tem in the dynamic balancer. If they work, then I'll let evryone here know so that only one person can remain unconvinced.
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Mbsween
Posted on Tuesday, May 12, 2009 - 01:25 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I had a stone get into the cast alloy rim once, made a noise that was annoying as hell as I turned the tire on the static balancer or rode slowly.

I can't imagine what a bunch of beads rolling around in a tire would sound like. Maybe time for a new T-shirt, "Loud balancing strategies save lives"

Phelan, I'm curious as to why a tire/wheel would need to be rebalanced during its life, barring some sort of major impact or if the tire was plugged. I change a lot of tires (for a bunch of track day junkies). I use a NoMar and a a static balancer.

I generally spin the tires on the balancer after I take the wheel off, but before changing the tire, just to see if the rim looks bent or anything else weird is going on. I don't keep tabs, but I'm pretty sure the rims tend to keep the balance (weights are taped on with duct tape) they were setup with at tire change time.
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Tdman77
Posted on Tuesday, May 12, 2009 - 01:43 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I wonder what these beads are doing to the inside of the tire. It's got to be shredding the inner surface of the tire, kind of like bead blasting from the inside out.

I emailed Continental Tires to see what they think of the magic beads. I'll post their response if I get one.
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Phelan
Posted on Tuesday, May 12, 2009 - 01:44 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The weight difference is because the rubber isn't the same all the way around the tire. And all the production oils that come out a tire when it's ridden a few hundred miles? That stuff isn't always even distributed through a tire. But the main thing that changes the balance is hard stops and starts, creating even the least traceable size flat spot that will affect the overall weight of that part of the tire, affecting the balance.
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Phelan
Posted on Tuesday, May 12, 2009 - 03:10 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Blake, I think you should actually watch the video in the link Loren (Gowindward) posted. It proves that the beads would indeed fly to the light end of the hammer as I was implying, not to the head.

(Message edited by Phelan on May 12, 2009)
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Eshardball
Posted on Tuesday, May 12, 2009 - 11:19 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I think Phalan's idea of testing them on a dynamic balancer is the best way of confirming the product's effectivness. I remain skeptical but science marches onward. I also had concerns about the beads movement inside the tire causing wear but if they function as advertised they would become almost stationary once the balance point was reached
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Jstfrfun
Posted on Tuesday, May 12, 2009 - 02:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

If you come to a stop or if your bike sets for a time, the beads will settle to the bottom until you roll off again...out of balance for a short distance.
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Phelan
Posted on Tuesday, May 12, 2009 - 03:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

That's a true statement...
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Eshardball
Posted on Tuesday, May 12, 2009 - 03:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I watched the video of the plastic bottle chucked up in a drill and what the addition of the Dyna beads did in the demonstration. It seemed to work as claimed. The out of balance condition would only exist for a few seconds when the object first started to move
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Natexlh1000
Posted on Tuesday, May 12, 2009 - 03:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I want to try them before I change tires.
Put a lead weight on the tire to unbalance it on purpose and see if it can smooth it out.

I suppose lead shot would work better, right?
Why would it be important that they are ceramic?
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Gowindward
Posted on Tuesday, May 12, 2009 - 04:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Lead shot even an 8 or 9 is a lot bigger than the ceramic beads. They are tiny! Do not know if that helps may them work. They are so small a static charge will make them hang on things.

One drawback from my experience with them, is their price. Close to $15 once shipped. I started using them because I started using cheaper tires, and wanted to see if they would smooth out the ride. I feel like they did that. Before I static balanced on my own static balancer....I do my own tire changes...so it saves me time too.
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Gowindward
Posted on Tuesday, May 12, 2009 - 04:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Blake, it seems that you are a great engineering analyst, and I respect your opinions in that regards. If dynamics is your specialty, then maybe you could explain why it could not work as they claim. I only have my three bikes, and physical inputs I feel from them, that makes me think that they do work as claimed. I too didn't really believe it until I came across the video I posted. I'm certainly no expert on dynamics, so please enlighten us all.
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