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Harold
| | Posted on Saturday, April 25, 2009 - 07:56 pm: | 
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Just bought an S1W again, and when I got it the solenoid would do the rapid clicking the first time or two of hitting the starter switch, and then it would turn over and start. I figured the battery was low and charged it which made no difference.
I then rebuilt the solenoid, which showed signs of wear on the pin the battery cable hooks to, and the other one looked almost new. Then it stopped the clicking and would not turn the starter over. Two or three tries at the button and it would work. I cleaned all the wiring I could see, the ground strap at both ends, battery cable ends, battery ground to frame end, and had already cleaned the ends of the starter and solenoid when rebuilding it. I finally bought a new battery and starter relay, which when I put them on I took the old relay apart and it looked brand new inside. The old gel cell battery also stilled shows 12.8-13 volts, and of course after all of this it still has same symptoms. It always starts, but takes a few attempts at the button before the starter turns over. Then it turns over fine. If I turn it off for just a couple of minutes, it starts first push of the button, but if it sits more than 10 minutes it does its ritual again.
My friend says it's the starter, and it may have 1 or two of the brushes not making contact, and the several stabs at the button is just slowly moving the piston off of compression so its easier to turn, although it doesn't seem like the starter is moving anything when it does it. I am hoping its something less expensive. I have searched this site and seen others with similar symptoms have several different causes. I am thinking now it is hopefully the starter switch, or the key switch.
Does anyone have any other ideas or troubleshooting techniques to try to determine what the problem is. |
Harold
| | Posted on Saturday, April 25, 2009 - 08:08 pm: |
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Update to above post. I just sprayed the starter switch and tried it again. To clarify what it is doing is: Press starter button and hear a single click and head light dims slightly, but no other noise. After two or more stabs at the button, it then turns over fine. Just now when I tried this, it took like 7-8 stabs before it turned over, and each time I got the single click- of the solenoid I would think- but nothing else. And then it started. |
Buell_bert
| | Posted on Sunday, April 26, 2009 - 01:07 pm: |
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I had the same stuff happen and my new starter works just great now. You need a metal primary gskt. and starter gskt. and of course a starter. I got mine for about 100 bucks. When it does this tap on it while pushing the button and if it turns over easier just replace it. My Boy showed me up on this and he didn't go to school for 2 years like I did. I went thru the battery charging and solenoid cleaning and cleaning the terminals but ended up replacing the starter. At least the primary oil gets changed and gasket replaced and you can inspect the chain adjuster. Mine went bad at about 7000 miles and that is why I did not think it was the starter. If it is not the starter well, sorry. |
Bikemakr
| | Posted on Sunday, May 03, 2009 - 12:11 pm: |
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I've got the same issue, but with some other symptoms. My bike had been doing the rapid clicking, then start, routine for a couple months last year but the starter would also hang (and make that horrible grinding noise) if I shut the bike down for a few minutes then tried to start it again before it had cooled down some. Another push of the button and it would start right up. I put a new battery in for this year but it didn't seem to make much difference. Tried to start it yesterday and it gave the same symptoms but wouldn't start so I bumped it down my driveway and went for a ride. Tried to restart it after a gas stop and it was dead so I bumped it and tried to take off but it was only firing on one cylinder, then it died. When I cycled the key again I had no lights or anything. Jiggled some wires etc., and finally got a good strong headlight but could only get the starter to click. Trailer'd her home and went to bed. |
Sportyeric
| | Posted on Sunday, May 03, 2009 - 09:01 pm: |
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I'm having the same issues with my Sportster, which has been apart for five years. New (eBay)starter, new battery cables, new seleniod, new battery. All as part of the rebuild. But now, sometimes it starts, sometimes it just clicks once.
Possible ideas: locktie on the starter bolts is messing up the starter's ground?
Poor live line from the battery to the fuse-block.
I'm so so so so very disappointed. Worked on finishing the build until 3am Friday night to be able to ride it for a weekend getaway Saturday morning Then "click.!" Fortunately there was another biker in the stable but still.
I'm wrapping my head around how to test. Tapping on the starter is a good idea. I'm thinking about using booster cables to see if the actuating circuits will turn over the old starter that I removed. But since the problem is intermittant, that only goes so far. If a bad ground could cause these symptoms, a bad live wire to the fuse-block could have the same effect. yes? Could locktite block the ground? |
F_skinner
| | Posted on Sunday, May 03, 2009 - 09:35 pm: |
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Eric, check your starter relay. The same thing happen to my Sportster and it would click (starter relay) but it would not start. I ran out of ideas and just replaced the relay and it worked fine. Since it was clicking just once I was sure the starter relay was fine but not the case.
As for my S2T. There is a wire that goes from the relay to the starter. Mine shorted out. The wire goes on the bottom of the starter on the right hand side as you sit on the bike.
I went through 3 starter relays on my Sporty, it was a 1992. I use to carry a spare just in case.
Frank |
Harold
| | Posted on Monday, May 04, 2009 - 06:35 am: |
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It doesn't appear the the relay grounds at its mounting point, as the screw is pretty small. I would think that the connections should be good, as they were off and then on again with my new relay. I am going to check the continuity of the ground that goes to it, to see if there is any resistance there. I feel strongly that it is not the starter but a connection somewhere, but maybe that's just wishful thinking. Mine never has not started eventually. |
F_skinner
| | Posted on Monday, May 04, 2009 - 08:13 am: |
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The relay does not ground to the frame. It is a cheap part and you can take the old one in to a auto parts store and they should be able to match it. Be mindful of the connections and it is good to check each one to make sure it is good.
Frank |
Road_thing
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 05, 2009 - 11:27 pm: |
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I had a bad relay a few years back--
posted pix of the repair here.
rt |
Bikemakr
| | Posted on Thursday, May 07, 2009 - 12:37 pm: |
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Mine now appears to be some sort of short circuit (voltage regulator?). I put my old battery back in fully charged to 12.62 volts and started right up; a day later it showed 12.5 volts but still started. I put an ammeter around the + battery lead and it shows 1.5 to 1.7 amps when the key is turned off. Thoughts? |
Sportyeric
| | Posted on Thursday, May 07, 2009 - 01:12 pm: |
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If you have a wrap-around ammeter, life is good. Can't you just wrap around each wire as it comes off the fuse block and work your way back to narrow down the search?
Frank. I've tried two new relays. One from an auto shop. The second from the HD dealer. Its today's project to solve this. |
Sportyeric
| | Posted on Saturday, May 09, 2009 - 02:28 am: |
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Well, its healed itself. Started a dozen times without me having done anything. I sprayed "electrical contact cleaner" on the main wiring harness connector just for good luck. Put 30 shake-down miles on today, turning it off while coasting (just in case) then hitting the starter. Worked every time. A full day planned for tomorrow. I'll see if it embarasses me through the day. But I'll be carrying a spade connector with enough wire to jump the starter circuit directly from the battery if something should come up. |
Bikemakr
| | Posted on Monday, May 11, 2009 - 12:09 pm: |
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Got mine figured out- dead battery with only 650 miles on it. Completely shorted out and won't hold a charge. Put the original battery back in and now she's fine! |
Harold
| | Posted on Monday, May 11, 2009 - 06:49 pm: |
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There is a ground wire that goes to the starter, and it gets ground when you hit the starter button. I was told by someone to ground that connection and see how the starter worked.
It didn't do anything. I hooked the wire going to the starter to the end of my wire and it turned over, so I know my wire had a good connection to the starter. Does anyone know why this didn't do anything. I still believe that the problem is caused by a mediocre connection somewhere, because the bike will always eventually start. |
Sportyeric
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 13, 2009 - 01:52 am: |
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I thought, but may be wrong, that the small wire that is attached to the starter delivers positive to the selenoid of the starter (when the starter relay is triggered). I've seen people short with a screwdriver the two live terminals on a car or bus. Is that not the same?
Are you saying that that wire is constantly live and needs to be grounded by the relay circuitry? |
Harold
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 13, 2009 - 08:10 pm: |
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Sportyeric,
You are right, I was wrong about this wire being a ground, it is the wire to the solenoid that gets + volts to start. It goes to ground I guess from completing the circuit. I did the voltage drop as well as ground drop test that the service manual details, and both were within reason. I forgot to check to see how much voltage drop occurs from the solenoid, but will do that next. I am thinking that's were I will find the problem, even though it has just been rebuilt.
I unplugged the wires to the clutch switch, and it makes no difference. It thought there might be some resistance in it, but I guess it doesn't do anything unless the bikes in gear. How anyone seen a problem with the key switch not getting a good enough connection to cause this problem? |
Sportyeric
| | Posted on Monday, July 06, 2009 - 11:54 am: |
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Just to up-date mine. Had the Sportster off the road for a while. Took it out yesterday, armed with a small jumper wire to by=pass the starting circuitry to eliminate that end of things.
I found that the problem had gotten worse in that the bike would simply quit running from time to time but heal itself before I could get the tools out to diagnose. Rode it til it failed long enough and discovered that I had a loose nut on the 'load' side of the main breaker.
Hopefully that solves that problem. |
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S1W starter problems