| Author | Message | ||
     Ccmdoc |
Well, it arrived yesterday and physically looks beautiful - take that for what it's worth since I also think my '08 1125R is beautiful. I haven't had the "R" long and have just under 600 miles on it. My plan is to get the 600 mile service along with the latest ECM map (and hopefully my new I.C. and along with brake line re-route) then dyno it at Liberty H-D/Buell, swap exhausts and re-dyno. I'm even crazy enough to consider buying a TH from Pete at GSD and trying that out as well. Used to do this with my track cars when swapping exhausts, intercoolers, chips, etc. Will keep you posted as things unfold - no one picking up at service desk at Liberty right now so can's schedule dyno day yet. Stay well and thanks, Paul "Don't save the best for last, smile for later or "Thanks" for tomorrow" | ||
| Carbonbigfoot |
OOOooooo.... A dyno shootout! R | ||
| P_squared |
Careful, people might start to question your results. Not that that has ever happened here before.  | ||
| Ccmdoc |
P_squared - you might be right. I guess it's best to just keep my info to myself. Even though it would otherwise be unbiased since I am paying for everything out of my own pocket, no axes to grind or sponsors to stroke it might, nevertheless be construed as favoring some product over another. Stay well and thanks, Paul "Don't save the best for last, smile for later or "Thanks" for tomorrow" | ||
| Socoken |
You should do it! Unbiased results would be invaluable! Then, you should sell me which ever one you dont want, cheap! | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Don't think anyone has questioned unbiased results here. Stress the "UN". Really don't want to rehash things, but please post your findings. | ||
| Carbonbigfoot |
Just have your legal department whip up a standard, 2 or 3 page disclaimer, and you'll be good to go! R | ||
| Bott |
let the numbers tell the story...numerals can't be biased  | ||
| P_squared |
let the numbers tell the story...numerals can't be biased  Remind me to tell you sometime about the discussions regarding different dynos.... Seriously though, please post up the before & after results, many folks are interested. I can't guaranty you won't be gangraped for it, but I have hope that the 'mood' on here has cooled a little since the last go round.  | ||
| Ccmdoc |
Gang-raped - I'm "up" for it if it involves Angelina Joli, and a few others like her. OK, at my age, I might not be "up" for all of it, but I'll watch them wrestle for a while. OK as soon as I get it set up, I will post the plots. What has been most valuable to me in the past has been "best" vs. "best" and average of top three pulls before and after any changes. I will probably do stock vs. Drummer first since I have the Drummer already. If I go ahead and get a TH too, I'll remount the stock to get new "stock" numbers for comparison. Ambient weather, gas, additional mileage would make the original "stock" pulls valueless for comparison purposes since conditions couldn't possibly be exactly the same. Then we will have a Drummer vs. stock and TH vs. stock. If the two "stock" pulls are different, whether one could extrapolate the HP and torque differences between stock and the two aftermarket parts and compare Drummer to TH, I won't speculate upon. Stay well and thanks, Paul "Don't save the best for last, smile for later or "Thanks" for tomorrow" | ||
| Carbonbigfoot |
Also consider the learning aspect. If the computer "learns" for the aftermarket pipe then you reinstall the stocker, it may be a little bajigitty. (Note my use of technical language....) R | ||
| Jerseyguy |
Rob, I finally got a system out of Kevin in yesterday afternoon's UPS. I see that the learning aspect will take some miles. I've got 50 easy miles on it so far and The AFVs haven't budged from 100/100 yet. How many miles did it take before you saw a change in your AFVs? It's raining today but I'm hoping to get out this weekend. I've got a baseline dyno at Liberty from last fall. I'll try to get a Drummer run this month after I get some miles on it. | ||
| Ccmdoc |
Steve, That's exactly the question I was going to ask this morning. I'd like to get as accurate data as possible so the "learning" by the ECM is important as has been suggested. For most cars with changed EPROMS or other fuel management parts - its about 50 - 80 miles of variable driving under various loads before you see things "settle out". I am hoping about the same for bikes, but I dont have any dyno time with them to know. Thanks, Paul | ||
| P_squared |
The 'scientific' answer is: Go wring it's freakin neck for a couple hours. I'll be doing that tomorrow, as I haven't been able to ride more than ~20 miles since I put mine on. | ||
| Bob_thompson |
Jerseyguy & Condoc, when I installed my own new system with a turbo type muffler, and removed the inner air box, solenoid already disconnected my AFV's here at 4500 ft. elevation went from 94.5 F&R (taking fuel away to compensate for lean air) to staying at 100 F&R with just one ride of about 2 hours with a wide variety of gear and rpm ranges including several blasts to redline. My bike has never run so strong. I really needed the extra air in and out for being this high up and ECM responded well. However some have experienced lean AFV's, like 105-115 (adding fuel) at lower elevations. Caution might be advised there. I somewhat agree with P_squared but will add to use a wide variety of rpm's and gears for the ECM to "learn". Bob | ||
| Jmr1283 |
However some have experienced lean AFV's, like 105-115 (adding fuel) at lower elevations this doesnt make since. 105-115 would be a 5& to a 15% increase in fuel. hardly lean. factory is 100. i dont get what ur saying. | ||
| Jerseyguy |
Damned if it isn't supposed to rain all weekend. Guess I'll just have to wait. | ||
| Carbonbigfoot |
Mine jumped up quickly. Like less than 100 miles... I just got the 12z reflash done, and it reset them to 100/100. I haven't checked them since then... need to go peek. R | ||
| Bob_thompson |
Josh(Jmr1283), as we have seen in quite a few posts of dyno runs which have had A/F ratio readouts we are already, with a stock ECM, at or near 15-1 A/F in some rpm ranges or sometimes even more in a few cases and thats already pretty lean compared with what some have seen and experienced for a good, strong running engine. If we have to add more fuel I am wondering where the A/F ratio is at that time. Just maybe a little too lean even if its adding only 5-15%. We've already seen at least some hot running engines conditions due to the EPA mandated lean running engines from the factory. I would even want a somewhat richer engine, then 100 F&R(remember thats factory EPA specs). for optimum performance but what I have is enough for this old guy on the street mostly. Just my take but you made a great point. Bob | ||
| Jerseyguy |
I got out between rain clouds today for about 25 miles. I went down the highway and kept the rpms steady around 4K with a light load for as long as I could. Now I'm at 105F/100R. That's where I was before the 3rd reflash. | ||
| Carbonbigfoot |
From what I understand, you want to ride it with a variety of loads. Ideally, one would hit every cell in the map several times. In other words, every RPM at every throttle position under varying loads. I was driving myself insane worrying about it, researching buying a small laptop and a 2 channel wideband O2 sensor setup with datalogging capability, and optimizing the fuel maps... Then I said screw it, it runs absolutely fine, apparently with no problems as far as any difference in A/F ratio, and it makes more power than I can use. Oh, yeah. It also sounds like nothing else on the road. It still makes me giggle every time I fire it up! Rob | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
THIS THREAD IS WORTHLESS WITHOUT PICTURES.  | ||
| Steeltech |
I second Ft's motion. | ||
| Marcodesade |
How do I check AFV? I remember reading that it can be done in the cluster; how do I access it? | ||
| Dhdjr |
Press down on the mode & toggle buttons, then turn the key to the on position. Use the toggle button to scroll down to the AFV readings (towards the end of the menu) | ||
| Cataract2 |
I find this interesting. Got my Drummer here and have been riding it for about 300 miles now. Power is certainly improved, but I've noticed that my AFV's have not changed liked others. Interesting. | ||
| Ds_tiger |
my guess is if you run them hard- they adapt to it. Take it easy on the throttle, they are marginal. Just my edumacated guess  | ||
| Xbswede |
I would agree if you want it to learn go cruising at a steady state. Every time you whack the throttle your out of the learning closed loop region. Anything above 22% throttle and I doubt you will see much learning going on other then some lean AFR readings. Go putt it down the freeway at 55 mph in 5th for 10-15 minutes straight on level ground and see if it changes at all. | ||
| Ccmdoc |
OK - May 27th is the scheduled dyno day at Liberty H-D/Buell. We'll see the numbers before and after Drummification. Stay well and thanks, Paul "Don't save the best for last, smile for later or "Thanks" for tomorrow" | ||
| Cataract2 |
Well, my butt report for my Drummer is the bike has more power. AFV's haven't changed yet. Mind you, this could be because I'm 6000' above sea level here. | ||
| Ccmdoc |
OK, Drummer is on. Sounds great, everyone at the shop was raving about it. My baseline dyno run with the '03 ECM flash was disappointing to say the least - 117HP and 66ft-lbs torque. No miles with the Drummer on but with no miles on it, the dyno showed exactly same numbers (OK, 1 HP less and 1 ft-lb more). I plan to get some miles on then re-dyno with no other changes. ECM flash - no matter what I said, the head of service insisted that the last flash was last November. So these numbers represent the flash ending in 03. I definitely want to get the 05 flash and repeat the dyno run then apply a "Performance Flash Utility" before making a final dyno run. That's all I have at the moment. How do I convince the service guys that there is a later flash? Thanks, Paul |
