| Author | Message | ||
     Preybird1 |
A new motor build has me wondering what do you guys know and have any of you guys used these cylinder jugs Please chime in if you have any experience with these jug types chime in please. | ||
| Slaughter |
Nik-a-sil and similar ceramic-lined cylinders require special rings and break-in procedures. I've used the Nik-a-sil cylinders and pistons and rings in the racebike. You would be well-advised to have the person doing the cylinder lining to ALSO have the pistons and rings on hand so they can be fit. | ||
| Slaughter |
To add here - I put about 200 track-only miles a month on the bike, synthetic oil BUT change oil every month. | ||
| Teeps |
A properly designed aluminum cylinder with the Nik-a-sil coating should have a good service life, with added benefits of lighter weight and better heat transfer. Are you thinking about these? http://www.nrhsperformance.com/  | ||
| Teddagreek |
nickies  | ||
| Preybird1 |
Yes some of those | ||
| Buelldyno_guy |
Cast iron lined cylinders have worked for 30 years, but state of the art plated aluminum cylinders are the only thing we will build. Here’s what we stated on the Revolution Performance Web Site about their Big Bore Kits “...parts that were designed to run together, that fit, offer outstanding performance, and excellent customer support, made our choice a ‘No Brainer’.” —Terry Parsley, Principal Partner, JT&S Performance} | ||
| Rfischer |
I used V.1 of the Nikasil-coated jugs in my first S1 race motor several years ago. They shed the coating and scored after a couple hours running. All the vendor's claims for them turned out to be quite the opposite of my experience. Went with good old iron ones after that with no problems. For what it's worth. | ||
| Fast1075 |
Let me start off by saying that Terry is a highly successful builder/tuner/racer with much V twin experience and records to prove it...therefore I respect his opinion. My opinion would vary depending on the usage of the engine...if racing is the target...yes on the nikasil...if long term high mileage street use is the target, I would go with the iron liners...my reasoning is the liners can be bored and fitted with oversized pistons much easier than the nikasil can be repaired or refinished in the event of a piston siezure with associated cylinder wall damage... It is my understanding that current production nikasil cylinders have a very low percentage of failure compared to previous offerings...if they are properly set up, broken in, and the tuning is correct...in the end either type of cylinder will fail if it is not properly set up, broken in and tuned...including proper lubrication. My personal experience with cylinders has little in common with a low revving, non boosted engine...all of my engines for the last few years have been high revving imports with at times huge nitrous loads...in that case, the strenght of a nice thick ductile iron liner gives a measure of reliability. | ||
| Brinnutz |
Doesn't the jappers and such run nikasils in their stock motors now? I hear BMW and porsche and some others as well...Guess I need to do some research. | ||
| Fast1075 |
Brinnutz, you are correct... | ||
| Rfischer |
Well, I guess that makes my experience a "previous offerings" one 'cause the motor was properly built, set-up, and tuned yet the cylinders failed very quickly. I'm still pissed years later; the vendor's response [Millenium Technologies] was , "oh, well...race use y'know.." Baloney - some street break-in and 3 hot-lap sessions. Failure. | ||
| Buelldyno_guy |
Thanks Harry, a little bit of history, when I go back to the days of short piston life European 2-Strokes, Bultaco's and such. We increased the life and reduced our cost, by using a Sunnen hone to keep the cast iron cylinder walls straight. Then we could replace rings once or twice and the piston without boring. The idea then and now is the same, we we want the rings, then the piston to wear, not the cylinder. Today on nikasil coated cylinders we can use a ball hone (which can't cut the harder nikasil) to clean the scrubbed aluminum (piston) or steel (ring) material from a used cylinder and after checking the taper and piston fit, you can install new rings or a piston and ring set. The plating is warranted for life, so reboring is not an issue. Again in the early days of plating aluminum in both autos and bikes we saw a few attempts using chrome as well as other coatings that were less than successful. Today the air transport / aerospace industry's could not survive without wear resistant coatings. The nikasil coated cylinders JT&S uses are Revolution Performance cylinders with the word Millennium cast into each one. Brian's partner is Millennium Technologies an aerospace coating company. In my previous life I have had way too much experience with hard coatings chipping or having a poor bond and the cost of such repairs ran into the $25K to $100K range so if I were not convinced that nikasil was the way to go, I know how to do cast iron correctly. Thanks for allowing me to ramble Terry - JT&S Performance (Message edited by buelldyno_guy on May 01, 2009) | ||
| Rfischer |
I am not doubting or questioning your opinion or experience Terry. I am simply stating the facts concerning my experience with Millenium nikasil cylinders in 1999. | ||
| Fast1075 |
I'll preface this by saying that my hobbies have changed, come and gone over the years...one of my hobbies for a few years was bass fishing....being the sort of personality I am, I had to have a FAST boat...so naturally I had to get a Mercury 200 with it's nikasil cylinders...I ran it tuned on the edge of destruction and I ran it HARD...needless to say, I smoked a few pistons...mostly, they could be cleaned up with no residual damage with some acid wash and the ball hone... Now that I think of it, my first experience with plated cylinders was on a Brdigestone motorcycle...I ran the stew out of it too...it eventually wore out, but the plating never failed. A real good example of a product that USED to be unreliable in the old days, but has made a strong comeback in the last few years....is Wiesco piston...they used to be the piston of last resort for cylinders that were worn or damaged beyond factory oversize...they were GARBAGE pure and simple...not nearly enough silicon, and thermal expansion was out the window...no matter how you set them up, they would sieze...the current product in my experience is superb...I just sold a 650 Kawi that I built a few years ago that had a 720 kit in it....with at least 200 passes at rpm up to 12K with a 45hp nitrous load....and the pistons had no visible sigs of skirt wear..so times change I reckon. (Message edited by fast1075 on May 01, 2009) | ||
| Teeps |
Fast1075 Posted on Friday, May 01, 2009 - Now that I think of it, my first experience with plated cylinders was on a Brdigestone motorcycle...I ran the stew out of it too...it eventually wore out, but the plating never failed. A 350GTR? You're dating yourself. A friend had one, and as I remember they were fast; class beating fast. However, the rotary shift pattern was a rude surprise. I had a 1975 Kawasaki KX125 that used a Nik-a-Sil coated cylinder. The Centurion (some times referred to as the Mini or Little Green Streak) had a hard chrome coating in its bore. That coating would flake off with catastrophic consequences. | ||
| Mr_grumpy |
Porsche & VW used to have ABC barrels, Aluminium, with a Brass liner & a Chrome internal finish. | ||
| Fast1075 |
Teeps, it is no secret that I am an old fart  I bask in my oldfartness...but I still fondly remember the smell of burning castor and methanol... And I really, really like those old rotary valve two strokes...in particular one old Kawasaki BigHorn turned roadracer...now that was fun. | ||
| Teeps |
Fast1075 I got you beat by a few years. Yes nothing like the smell of Castor oil and race gas on a warm Friday night at Ascot. The visceral sound of BSA Gold Stars, Triumphs,and XR750s. Now the once great Ascot Park is a huge auto auction lot. Some change is just not for the better it seems. |
