| Author | Message | ||
     Ft_bstrd |
My understanding is that the 916 model because of it's striking style and race performance was instrumental in moving Ducati from a small niche company into a company with a market capitalization of $5.92B. So, if this is true, does the 1125R have the potential for doing the same for Buell? If 2010 brings a higher output 1199RR with wins in WSBK to match those in Daytona Sportbike, would Buell have a similar result? | ||
| Brapbrapbrap |
God I hope so. I'll jump in when they get to at least the 998 stage. | ||
| Redbuelljunkie |
Umm- no. The 916 is internationally recognized as being one of the most beautiful motorcycle designs ever. It is my opinion that the 1125 series will most certainly end up on the ugliest motorcycles of all time list. I do agree, however, that in terms of performance and brand recognition the 1125R will probably have a similar affect on Buell as the 916 had on Ducati. Now, if Buell were to introduce an 1125 which matched it's performance with a design as respected and admired as the 916- then it truly would be Buell's crowning glory. I anxiously await that day. | ||
| Brapbrapbrap |
+1 RBJ | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
I agree on the design. The 1125R is not as beautiful as the 916. The list price of a 916 in 1996 was $15,700. Inflation adjusted, it's probably more like $20,000. For double the price, I'd say that one could make the 1125R look like anything you would want. Given that, and that the target is lower priced, no niche sportbike riders, I'd say that the Buell's styling is just right for the pricing. Now, as the volume increases, the budget for styling increases. Maybe the 996 version of the 1125R will have the styling you want. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
t is my opinion that the 1125 series will most certainly end up on the ugliest motorcycles of all time list. EXACTLY. Your opinion. Funny. I was at a recent track day and everyone from the guys at tech to various other riders complimented the looks or the 1125r. Nothing was solicited. Was minding my own business and approached several times. I guess there are other opinions other there too. Not everyone is programmed to love cookie cutter bikes, RSV included. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
I think the ugliest bike is still the 999. No offense Chris. | ||
| Brapbrapbrap |
Truth be told.... When talking about the 1125r looks it really is like an elephant in a room. Because of our love of Buell, an American company, an alternative to the mainstream and now a great engine no one want to be negative but truth be told, it's a fugly bike. That don't make it a bad bike. If you look at histories greatest designs they are universally liked and have a magical quality. The pillars at the parthenon how they gently bow in the middle to trick the human eye into a graceful straight balanced line that the human eye would not see if was otherwise. I hang with all bike people in my life. The 1125 always comes up as the WTF confused styling nominee. That don't make it a bad bike, but its a HUGE Opportunity for Buell to pick up some sales. The only people I hear say its a good looking bike are a some owners and the people within earshot of said owners. The 916 was not a cookie cutter, but it was different in such a good way. Understated elegance with timeless well thought out cohesiveness lines that last till this day. Balance in size and shapes. this is a 15 year old design.  This is a 2 year old design  compare the top fairings in size to the rest of the bike. not that that makes it a bad bike. The size of the pods so large they stick out in front of the forks takes it out of the naked bike category and leaves it in some undefined category but certainly top and front heavy. Being ugly does not make it a bad bike, there are many ugly bikes on the market. | ||
| Palmer |
Massimo Tamburini, his name speaks for itself. What else to say? Ducati 888 Ducati 916 Cagiva Mito Cagiva Freccia Mv Agusta F4 Mv Agusta Brutale These are some of the top bikes EVER! This is the italian school of the great italian designers, pininfarina, giugiaro, and so on. As Italian I'm proud of it, and I think that the ceo's at HD when tamburini told them he would not join the group wit his CRV where very disappointed. Just think about a Buell designed by Tamburini! What do you guys think about the inner competiton between Mv Agusta and Buell? In the same group they build sportbikes and streetfighters.. | ||
| Madav8tr |
"the 916 was not a cookie cutter, but it was different in such a good way." Different from what? Different from the Honda NR750 that the front fairing and rear underseat exhaust was patterned after? Or different from the RC30 that the use of the single sided swingarm was copied from? While the 916 is a beautiful motorcycle, I owned a 996S in 2001, it isn't original in it's approach style or function. The same can't be said of Buells 1125. | ||
| Palmer |
Madav8tr, you're right even tamburini admitted that his inspiration came from the NR750, and the NR is - even today - one of the most beautiful and innovative bikes ever. But the look and the design of the 916 is immortal. And it was the first commercial bike with exhaust under the seat and singlesider. The NR was at the time not really cheap, at least like a desmosedici RR from today (and the desmosedici's front is so similar with the one of the NR750!!) | ||
| Ponti1 |
Opinions, opinions...I personally think the 916 looks like a cheap chinese replica of a Ducati. I much prefer the looks of the 848 and 1098 models on the market today. But what do I know...I like the looks of the 1125 as well. | ||
| Court |
I think the 916 is just kind of iconic art. I always enjoy looking at it. One of my all time favorites, just to look at, is still the Monster. It was designed by Miguel Angel Galluzzi who now work for Aprilia but was educated along with pal David Robb (see Corvette Stingray and Mercedes S Class) at the Pasadena School of Design and went on the head the BMW motorcycle design effort (where I think his work tanked). The 1125R, in typical Buell fashion, was designed more around what worked. Kinda cool in a techy way and I like a motorcycle that folks either like or don't like . . . you'll find very few "MOR" folks with regards to their 1125R opinions. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
I much prefer the looks of the 1125R to the new RC8, but again the RC8 is double the price. I prefer the looks of the 1098 to the 1125R. The 1098 is double the price. See a trend here. Comparing the 916 to the 1125R is like comparing a Ferrari F430 convertible to a Saturn Sky. At many multiples the price, the looks BETTER be attractive. The 1125R looks good to me. I like the styling. Others do as well. Enough that Buell was growing in sales while other companies, Japanese, Italian, and German, were seeing shrinking sales. I'm not really interested in a looks debate on the 1125R. I was more interested in the potential for the 1125R to change the destiny of Buell. Love the looks or hate the looks, the 1125R is selling. | ||
| Palmer |
BTW I like both 1125 R and CR, but the 916 look is better in every way, and it's not only about price. For what concerns the possibility that the 1125 chenages the future of the buell, I don't know. It's true, worldwide, the 1125 is selling, but in relation of the possibilty of a factory with 200 workers. Here in Italy the most buelle addicted people doesn't like the 1125, and they will nevere ever buy one. For most of them A buell without HD engine isn't a real Buell. And it's also true, that a very little number of 1125 are being sold here. Most people are alla about the loook and the price of the bike in spite of ergonomics and rideability.. a more "intuitive" look could help a lot in increase the number of 1125 selled. | ||
| Chadhargis |
In my opinion, the 1125 is beautiful....because function is beautiful. I mean, what good is a supermodel girlfriend if she wont' give you any. Give me a "girl next door" who will wear me out on a frequent basis and I'm a much happier guy. Function over form ANY DAY. The pods are awesome. Not only do they allow the short wheelbase (and we won't get into the physics of why this is good), but they cool the bike, and they act as frame sliders. BEAUTIFUL! That's good design. The fuel in frame makes good sense to me too. Keeps the CG low. Makes use of wasted space. The underslung exhaust....BEAUTIFUL. Why do I want extra exhaust length, with a tight radius bend, just to have the exhaust exit under my rump, which is now roasting. Keep the weight low, and the heat away from the rider. Again...BEAUTIFUL! I guess it comes from my network engineering background. Logic dictates what works best for me. I don't care what color the cable is, as long as it carries my data with no signal loss. I don't care if the router is pretty, or has chrome on it, as long as it passes data quickly. This applies to my motorcycles as well. Let the cruiser and extended swingarm crowd worry about polishing their butt jewelry down at the local watering hole. I'll be out riding in the twisties. My motorcycles are not a statement about me, an extension of my penis, or a conduit for me to show off. My motorcycles are machines used to plaster a smile on my face as I lean over into a turn and roll on the throttle. No amount of paint, polish, or pretty body work makes any difference at that point. | ||
| Carbonbigfoot |
Just remember, they called the Big Bad Suzuki the "Eye-Abuser" when it came out. Till it started kicking everybody's ass. I like my CR. The positive feedback I have gotten is incidental. I bought it because I like it. R | ||
| Palmer |
Function over form ANY DAY. you're right. But most people dream about pamela anderson, not on the smart girl next door.. I prefer the smart girl too! | ||
| Georgehitch17 |
why not just move next door to pamela anderson??? | ||
| Zac4mac |
+lots Chad. "I" think my Loretta is a beautiful bike. I don't drink Kool-Aid, but I love my 1125R Z | ||
| Bob_thompson |
Please guys, if this is a discussion about looks only it would be one opinion but I have a motorcycle for one and only one reason, RIDING IT, mostly on the street, which is what I do 95% of the time I have owned it. A few track days occasionally. The other times I look at it, clean it or wrench on it. If you did this with all your motorcycles you might just have a different opinion of YOUR particular motorcycle dream machine. Just my opinion for what its worth. 1125R is the best motorcycle I have ever owned. | ||
| Dipstick |
The 916 is a work of art. The 1125R is an act of science. When I'm cranked over in a corner at speed, I'll take science every time........and that makes the 1125R beautiful to me. | ||
| Socoken |
Fellas please, if we are purely debating looks, we have overlooked one important element. WOMEN also love the looks of the 1125r! Besides, random jumbled triangles and square lines arent for everyone! I like curves, if you know what I mean. Great photo selection, brap, you tool. Lets look at the 916 majestically poised with a beautiful backdrop. Then, lets find the least popular angle to view the 1125 from, and put it on a generic white background. Your posts are about as worthwhile as bacne on a supermodel. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
The fuel in frame makes good sense to me too. Keeps the CG low. Never appreciated the fuel in the frame until I rode a friends 600cc for an extended period of time while the Buell was in the shop. Handles like a pig with a full tank. Never think about riding with a full tank on the Buell. | ||
| Xl1200r |
The 916 (and it's deriivatives) are nice looking bikes, but I don't know that I'd classify them as the most beautiful ever produced. The nose looks stubby, and the tail looks unbalenced (too big). There some VERY pretty sportbikes out there, as well as some VERY ugly ones. The 916 and the 1125R don't make either of those lists for me. | ||
| Doerman |
Enjoying what I ride is what counts for me. When I ride it, I don't see it. When I am off it and see it, I like the looks. What other people think of the looks of my bike is irrelevant to me. What the 916 and the 1125 have in common is not a groundbreaking look. They both were significant and successful departures from the companies past. | ||
| Slaughter |
So many people STILL complain about the Buell's upper fairing as being "too large" and then post pictures with NO RIDER on the bike. If you realize that the fairing is supposed to reduce drag on the rider and machine - then actually PUT A RIDER IN POSITION, you'd quickly see that the fully exposed rider's head, shoulders, forearms and upper torso are NOT as smooth as the 1125R bodywork. Riding a 1125R behind the fairing in terribly gusty conditions only FURTHER reinforced the beauty of the design (there were measured wind gusts of OVER 55 MPH and there was a 4-fatality, 24-car pile-up on the freeway 3 miles away on the day of Inside Pass) - STRONG winds even for Willow Springs:    | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
If Buell is trying to develop the 1125 into a 1198, in terms of power and style, Buell is going to have to go fully fared. While I have really grown to like this bike, it doesn't scream RACING FAST being somewhat naked. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
I think a fully faired bike as part of the 1198 offering would be great. It would allow some styling alternatives for the scoops and maybe we can stop hearing about them. | ||
| Elvis |
There's nothing I'd like more than a fully faired "1195RR", but it's clear that Buell offered the 1125R without a full fairing very specifically to avoid initial comparisons with the 1098. When the 1125R first came out, it had never turned a wheel in anger on a race-track and if it had been released basically saying: "Hey, look at me! I'm a Ducati!", the moto-journalists would have taken it to the track and compared it to the 1098S and said: "No, you're not." . . . but those of us who dream of an eventual Ducati beater have to be thrilled with what's going on this year. Today, there will be more Buells at Barber than there have ever been at an AMA event and Buells will be participating in 3 of the 4 classes. For the first time ever, there will be two Buells in a Superbike race. It's very encouraging to see Dave McGrath's comments in his interview that describe his role on the race-track. It's clear that Buell sees racing as something they want to be more and more involved in in the coming years: http://www.roadracerx.com/features/between-the-rac es/between-the-races-buells-dave-mcgrath/ My hope is that if/when we finally see an 1195RR it will be able to really live up to its looks.  (Message edited by elvis on May 01, 2009) | ||
| Black9 |
I think Buell didn't have a blank check to work with...the engine alone was a huge step forward for them ... hence the Firebolt tale, Uly frame, better lighting, etc..I fully expect the body work to evolve along with engine refinements just as the XB's have. I don't think its possible to get Honda refinement with Buell money. | ||
| Elvis |
I agree, Black9, and the real key is Buell actually can work on "refining" now . . . as opposed to leaping to get close to the competition. The 1198 is, basically, just a refined 916 after all. Sure they've made a lot of improvements along the way, but the basic layout, frame, engine etc. are very recognizable from 916 to 1198. Until Buell had the 1125R, they didn't have a bike that could simply be "refined". They had to make a leap from XB12R to 1125R. Now that they've made that leap, they can work on the smaller details. |
