| Author |
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Buellistic
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 15, 2009 - 09:35 am: | 
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BUELLers:
IMHO the problems with the OEM factory mount is the assembly process ...
The aftermarket mount being of better quality and more heavy duty is not as sensitive to how it is installed ...
MAY THE LONG LASTING BUELL BE WITH YOU !!! |
Oldog
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 15, 2009 - 01:40 pm: |
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Update,
I spoke to Wes Brown at Cycle Rama ( their a sponsor ) the head-S are going there one for the repair (both for "freshening up" }, Al's mount and the sacred bolts are on the way, I will change the head and base gaskets, exhaust studs and the like.
I can't vouch for the Grade 8 bolts, Perhaps Buellistic is correct I do not know, My leaning from years in industrial & machine shop work is the following
Use the buell specified grade 9 bolts, and install EXACTLY as directed.
I intend to change them every 30k miles from now on. If you have the money consider doing the billit mount, if nothing else you can polish it and its "kewl" in that the billet is more uniform in structure it is stronger.
In that it is a triangle it is way stiffer and stronger.
I am having the head Dye - checked and re machined so that the pads are FLAT and PARALLEL with full threads in the LEFT hole the price for just that service is less than 1/2 of what a new head costs
if the pads are not flat and on the same plane they likely will fail again.
right now the pads are flat to about .005" for a case or other non stressed part that is likely ok
Which loctite has been used ? on the bolts
( I need the number to order it ) |
Jramsey
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 15, 2009 - 01:58 pm: |
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Jim, 271 is what the FSM says to use. |
Fast1075
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 15, 2009 - 02:14 pm: |
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"If the pads are not flat and on the same plane they likely will fail again" BINGO!!
And let me add, Wes and crew will do you a good job! |
Buellistic
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 15, 2009 - 02:36 pm: |
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Oldog:
"Use the BUELLspecified grade 9 bolts and install EXACTLY(a lot is left for interpretation, IMHO in the FACTORY SERVICE MANUAL) as directed"
E-mail me your phone number so "i" can call you !!!
MAY THE LONG LASTING BUELL BE WITH YOU !!! |
Oldog
| | Posted on Friday, April 17, 2009 - 03:54 pm: |
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Update: the heads come off this weekend, for a trip to florida.
I have decided to try and rebuild my SHOWA with new seals and oil. I will try and document that process too, we need to see BenM2's on going project in the KV,
S hould
H ave
O ordered a
W orks from
AL
Expected Grand total for parts etc 1,100.00 $ (excluding the shock)
(Message edited by oldog on April 17, 2009) |
Oldog
| | Posted on Saturday, April 18, 2009 - 07:58 pm: |
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A Revolting developement!
I got the heads off not much drama, the front jug not so
@#$%@#$%@$#% ! the liner is cracked!
I called the local shop, and the deal is that the jug is purchased with a piston, rings (etc)
the Owner of Carolina Coast Harley Davidson let me have the jug / piston for cost.
the liner was cracked about 1/2 way up on the intake side front jug, the crack runs roughly parallel to the rings
so a good ending because of the dealer - HD should have picked up the price of the jug as it is a material defect, I understand how it got through QC just lamentable that the dealer ate it. |
Tdman77
| | Posted on Saturday, April 18, 2009 - 08:20 pm: |
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Do you think that you recent woes could be caused by the DS front isolator you just installed? Given that the stiffer rubber of the mount might be causing the bike it shake itself apart. I have been watching the front iso threads with great fear that mine doesn't give out.
I need a X1 select seat!
(Message edited by tdman77 on April 18, 2009) |
Oldog
| | Posted on Saturday, April 18, 2009 - 09:09 pm: |
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TD
I cant see how the crack in the jug was caused by the iso, the broken bolt possibly
the cast part ( the hanger ) was badly chapped I dont know exactly when and why it failed, my thinking is it was just fategue(sp)
I spoke to AL about it at length nothing he said indicates that its the iso, they fail randomly ( the mounts ), usualy left side bolt fails, then right arm of the mount, or the right bolt or the right head boss
the Failure is identical to most all of them that have been posted to the BWB.
Stay tuned. |
Oldog
| | Posted on Monday, April 20, 2009 - 09:50 am: |
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Erratta:
crack is on the front side left quadrant
[bolt side] I still stand by what I say that I doubt that the failure of the bolt caused this or vise versa,
I beleive that the flaw happened after the motor was constructed.
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Oldog
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 22, 2009 - 12:15 pm: |
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bump
stay tuned. |
Preybird1
| | Posted on Friday, April 24, 2009 - 10:01 pm: |
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Wow That is seriously crappy!! Well better now than going 90 or however fast you go!
Well i am hoping the new xb heads i am getting with the new mount to covert to the x1 frame doesn't cause any problems like this the steel mount is under $2?.?? but aluminum mount is $2??.??
Hey oldog That is to bad and you all ready got a new jug Dam, I got one here you could have gotten as well, oh well
(Message edited by preybird1 on April 24, 2009) |
Fullauto
| | Posted on Sunday, April 26, 2009 - 08:51 pm: |
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As in a previous post, I broke another left hand engine mounting bolt recently and took out the boss on the right hand side of the head for the second time with a NRHS engine mount after about 5000 miles this time and the new isolator is not torn at all. Just got my new bits the other day and I've taken the rear head/barrel off to do my base gaskets which were leaking and this time around I'm going to make sure the flats on the head are true and have the threads helicoiled for strength (hopefully). The problem always seems to begin with the breaking of the left hand bolt so perhaps I can get hold of a higher grade bolt. And, before you ask, Buellistic, I fitted everything up last time as per your directions.
In the end I'll go for XB heads and a new NRHS mount but I'm too tied up financially at the moment with my new Norton Commando heads project. Need some cash flow!
Despite the tediousness of doing this job three times now I'd still rather be wielding spanners on my X1 than riding a Honda! |
Oldog
| | Posted on Monday, April 27, 2009 - 11:03 am: |
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Hey Full
I wonder if you are getting a strength enhancement by helicoiling the head, as there is less parent metal.
Perhaps weld up and re machine tap to original size I believe that a class 1 fit and flat pads may work here,
I dont know it and no one at buell could tell us but I wonder if the threads were roll formed vs cut, they are supposed to be stronger than cut threads,
I believe ( my opinion ) that drilling the boss oversize for a helicoil may reduce the wall to the point that it is significantly weaker [ my opinion ]
Other than spacing I wonder what the difference is between tstorm VS xb heads in the boss area, |
Fullauto
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 28, 2009 - 07:14 pm: |
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I'm even wondering whether to machine both the head on the left hand side and the motor mount for a sleeve or ferrule arrangement. This should spread the load and take the weight that the bolt now takes. Admittedly, this thins the head at this point but that is not a proven problem. The left hand bolt breaks first and the breakage of the right hand boss or the mount itself is a consequence of this. If you stop the bolt from breaking then, in theory, the other problems disappear. Perhaps the problem with the bolts is not one of tensile strength but of shear strength where the mount and head meet.
Regarding the XB head question, perhaps the moving of the holes inboard provides more meat around the holes. Maybe that's why they did it. |
Buellistic
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 28, 2009 - 10:03 pm: |
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Fullauto:
IMHO, "i" would say yes to the motor mount head bolt holes being closer together to correct this bolt breaking problem ...
The aftermarket group saw the motor mount as a weak link and produced a heavy duty one ...
"i" now would like to inject this into the mix:
From 1986 final drive a chain to the end of the tube frame final belt drive in 2002 had a mis-understood final drive adjustment problem due to swing arm ark ...
Factory cured this problem by no adjustment on the XB rear drive belt with a idler(problem time frame 1986 to 2002, 16 years) ... IMHO it is too tight and the aftermarket group also saw this and a adjustable(spring loaded) idler came into being ...
Some time after 1997 the primary adjuster shoe's began to break ... Rather than the FACTORY SERVICE MANUAL and a FACTORY SERVICE LETTER making the SPEC's. on the primary chain more loose a heaver primary adjuster shoe came out ... Hint: if the primary chain eats(groves) into the plastic adjuster pad the primary chain is or has been adjusted too tight ...
Now these primary chain/drive belt too tight problems also cause drive line bearing problems all along the drive train ... It also causes excessive heat to the alternator through the primary chain being too tight which as you'll should know kills electrical parts, ie: stator and/or voltage regulator ...
In 1999 BUELL fuel injection came out and the TPS had to be re-set on occasion which lasted until 2008 which has auto TPS re-set programed into the brain box ... Problem time from 1999 to 2007, 8 years ...
Oil pump drive gear, the Racers alway knew about it and bought a aftermarket gear from one place, ZIPPERS ... In 2006 all the XB engines had this better gear form the factory which retro fits back to the EVO SPORTSTER engines ... Problem time frame 1991 to 2006, 15 years ...
Oil pump, the RACERS went to aftermarket oil pumps ... Problem time from 1991 to 1998, 7 years ... In 2002 a even better FACTORY oil pump came out and it has been up graded(improved) once ...
In 2000 there was a bad batch of exhaust valve run and the only way to find out if you got one or more of them you have to take the exhaust valves out and look at them and/or have them magnaflux'ed ...
In my case, the one in my BLAST dropped is the way "i" found out ...
Tried of typing now and maybe someone else remembers a problem or two or three ...
Maybe someone could chime in on the bad cam run ???
MAY THE LONG LASTING BUELL BE WITH YOU !!! |
Preybird1
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 28, 2009 - 10:14 pm: |
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I am pretty sure i got 2 of those valves in my 01 x1 both valves dropped both exhaust!
Buellistic i knew there had to be problem with the valves when both mine went.
Have you considered a big bore kit for your downed blast. |
Buellistic
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 29, 2009 - 08:25 am: |
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Preybird1:
HARLEY-DAVIDSON has what is called a "CURTSY WARRANTY PROGRAM" for out of warranty situations ...
In the instance of my DROPPED EXHAUST VALVE the CUSTOMER SERVICE person said the program works this way:
You take your BUELL to the HARLEY-DAVIDSON DEALER of your chose ...
They take the engine apart, document what was found in writing and send it to HARLEY-DAVIDSON to review ...
The paper work if properly written and documented(like going to your doctor and the visit properly documented and sent to your insurance provider the bill is paid)HARLEY-DAVIDSON may or may not back the request ...
If HARLEY-DAVIDSON decides to back there product, you win ...
If not, YOU are responsible for all expenses encored at the HARLEY-DAVIDSON DEALERSHIP ...
Not being a GAMBLER, "i" figure the money "i" saved will fix my BLAST with me doing my on work ...
BIG BORE KIT: no, as "i" like to fine tune the OEM PART that came with it ...
MAY THE LONG LASTING BUELL BE WITH YOU !!!
(Message edited by buellistic on April 29, 2009) |
Fullauto
| | Posted on Friday, May 01, 2009 - 01:46 am: |
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Well, I've bitten the bullet. I just dropped off my front head to the machine shop for repairs. There was a chip in the face of the flat where the mounting bolt goes on the left hand side. Jobs to be done are;
1. Weld this chip up and machine flat.
2. Weld boss back onto right hand side of head, ensuring alignment is perfect.
3. Ensure both flats are parallel and at same height.
4. Helicoil both threads.
5. Machine left side only of mount and left hand thread in head and machine up a sleeve/ferrule to fit tightly into head and mount and be a tight fit over bolt.
6. Deepen both threads and source longer bolts of higher grade.
This should ensure that the ferrule takes the weight of the engine rather than the bolt itself. Hopefully, this will cure my problem.
If not,........ |
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