| Author | Message | ||
     Firebolt1203 |
Heres a video I took at Road Atlanta of Eslick passing on the last lap for the win. Sorry for being loud, I was excited. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGDVsPFIuTY | ||
| Fresnobuell |
I was doing the same thing at Fontana....impossible not to get excited. Wow did that Buell ever jump off that corner or what? | ||
| Socoken |
No kidding on that leap out of the corner. How did danny get that jet pack through tech? | ||
| Imonabuss |
Oh yeah! | ||
| F_skinner |
WOW, what a close finish. What a great launch off that corner. | ||
| Johnnylunchbox |
Awesome! | ||
| Vagelis46 |
I know that many people will not like what I will say, but watching this video indicates why a 1125cc moto should not race against a 600cc. The difference in torque is so great that the 1125r "ate" the 600cc bike, unless of course the 600cc bike had a mechanical problem. | ||
| Zac4mac |
What about the other 1125s and the Aprilias that were NOWHERE near the front??? It's still the "Indian, not the arrow". | ||
| Jersey_thunder |
WTF....because BUELL and DANNY are kicking ass...we shouldn't be....but if we were loosing it would be ok? i am tired of hearng the crying..  JT | ||
| Spectrum |
I know that many people will not like what I will say, but watching this video indicates why a 1125cc moto should not race against a 600cc. The difference in torque is so great that the 1125r "ate" the 600cc bike, unless of course the 600cc bike had a mechanical problem. I was there this weekend and this was one of 20 times through the esses that day. Danny didn't make a lot of passes in that section. It isn't evident in the video, but there is a steep up hill section coming out of that turn (#11). My guess is the other bike wasn't in the right gear to climb the hill.} | ||
| Dentguy |
It's still the "Indian, not the arrow". Unless you have a better arrow. | ||
| Vagelis46 |
Of course as a big Buell fan, I know the 1125R is a good bike. Winning at the AMA level proves that. Of course Danny Eslick is a fast rider, otherwise he would not win. I know I should not say this......but... Is there a chance he is not going full throttle, unless necessary like in the video, just not to show the torque&power advantage of the 1125R ?? A similar rumour was around the WSBK field,the first year the 1200cc Ducati raced in the WSBK. They were saying that Bayliss was holding back his throttle, unless he really wanted to make a critical pass, so that Ducati did not show their torque-power advantage that would get them a weight or air intake restrictor penalty. For me the AMA sportbike class should have 1000cc IL4s with air intake restrictors to reduce their top end power to about 140RWHP. Also let the 1098S and the RC8 to compete. The 600cc IL4s are a too easy opponent for the 1125R. The results so far proves it. | ||
| Slaughter |
Guys - without knowing WHO it was that Danny passed and on what bike or how many laps difference there actually WERE between the two of them - we're clueless about just what we are seeing. The last lap of ANY race of this length means that there is a mix of front-runners and back-markers. | ||
| Dentguy |
It sounded like the announcer said he was making a pass for the lead. If that's the case, you could rule out back markers. | ||
| Spectrum |
The 600cc IL4s are a too easy opponent for the 1125R. The results so far proves it. The facts don't support your conclusions. Danny was getting out run by lots of bikes that day. He didn't have the fast lap times and both podiums this week were the results of other riders mistakes. If you had been there it would have be obvious that Danny is winning because he is making fewer mistakes and being more consistent.} | ||
| Socoken |
If you put 5 low budget privateers on R1s in this class, would they finish 1,2,3,4,5? I bet not. The whole, "if the Buell has so much more power, it would sweep the podium" argument is invalid to me. Danny is a great rider, but all that midrange oomph the 1125 has over the 600s has to come into play somehow. Whether its a drive off of the corners, faster rolling start acceleration, or its easier on the tires, that torque might be more of a factor than a few peak hp. | ||
| Brapbrapbrap |
The extra torque of the Buell is a gift for those that don't know much but when its in the hands of a guy with no Fear 'Danny' It's a deadly weapon. Long live torque and 80 pound jockeys with no fear. | ||
| Spectrum |
I could careless about the Buell versus the IL4 arguments. I can understand how folks coming to the conclusion from watching Fontana where he ran away with the first race and even lead the second race all but fending of Hacking late in the race. As the announcer said in WSBK while Haga ran away with the race. "The V-Twin is easier to ride with its flat torque curve, but not at these speeds". Road Atlanta however told a much different story. Danny was no where near the fastest bike. In fact, he was behind and getting out run most of both races. He fought ever step of the way, passing and get passed up until the finish in both races. If you look at the data from all four races. He was not the fast bike to beat in any of the races. He is winning because he has been out riding his opponents. I think this whole it's bike thing is really sad. Danny is riding his heart out and not getting any of the credit for his efforts. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Ewww, drama? "Herrin came by on the brakes in Turn 10 on the final go-round, but the two made contact as Eslick muscled his way back past moments later. The GEICO Powersports RMR runner looked back and waved to his rival at the checkered flag, prompting an angry gesture in return from Herrin." | ||
| Spectrum |
Fresno, Now that's funny. I think this video may be of that pass. Where did you find that tid bit of news? | ||
| Fresnobuell |
http://moto-racing.speedtv.com/article/ama-dsb-esl ick-buell-back-on-top/ | ||
| M2nc |
Does straight line acceleration make a road race winner? No! Does the Buell come out of the corners better? Yes. The Buell has some advantages and some disadvantages. The complete package is competitive but it is not dominating. At Road Atlanta I was watching Live Timing during the races. Both Eslick's and Knapp's fastest times were very close to each other at 1:30.02. The top factory 600s best times during the race were in the 1:29.8 range. Eslick's fastest lap in the race was not in the top five. But watching the lap times, I saw why Eslick won. First off Herrin mentioned that some riders choose soft compound tires. Both Eslick and Herrin did not. So at the beginning of the first race Eslick wasn't in the top five. As the race went on those on softer tires faded to 1:31+ lap times. Eslick did not. In both races Eslick hit at or about is best time , under 1:31, for more than a dozen laps. Other riders would make runs at him after he took the lead, but could not sustain repetitive sub 1:31 laps long enough to catch and pass Eslick. Not to mention that several of the top 600s over-rode their bikes and crashed. If you look at the facts and not the conjecture, it was very plain to see that Eslick did not have the fastest bike, but the most consistent one. | ||
| Socoken |
M2nc, my question was this: Is it easier to be consistent on a faster bike? | ||
| Spectrum |
Is it easier to be consistent on a faster bike? Consistency isn't about weather the bike is fast or not, but weather the rider has the nads to ride it to it's limits and the skill to manage it there. If your riding a bike to the limits, it's going to be on the edge of traction. This makes it much more difficult to manage and stay consistent. In other words it's much easier to be consistent if your not riding the bike to the limits. Danny is sliding the bike and riding it sideways around corners. In other words he is riding the bike up to and in some cases past the limit of traction control. On top of that he is putting in not the fastest, but the more consistent lap times. Thus my comment, this really isn't about the bike. It's all Danny's guts and skill and he is not getting the recognition he deserves for that. Yes it isn't just Danny's ability, there is a total package here that has to come together. The rider, the bike, the setup, the pit support ect. I know the factory teams have it as good or better than Danny in the other areas. | ||
| Tpoppa |
I think it's pretty cool to see an American bike on the podium. I also think it's pretty cool to see a first year team beat the LONG established factory teams. It's difficult to have a class where I4s and Twins can compete equally. I would imagine the casual observer is going to have concerns over 1125 vs 600. They would not understand handling differences between twins and I4s, flat torque curves, twins are penalized 20lbs over the I4s, etc. Eslick has absolutely been riding his ass off, give him credit. Personally, I think the best rider in the class is Zemke, but he has had some bad luck this year. If you see a Buell sweep or Eslick gapping the field by 15 seconds, I think that they will add another 10 lbs to the Buell. Especially now that NASCAR owns AMA Pro Racing. Is there a chance he is not going full throttle, unless necessary like in the video, just not to show the torque&power advantage of the 1125R ?? A similar rumour was around the WSBK field,the first year the 1200cc Ducati raced in the WSBK. They were saying that Bayliss was holding back his throttle, unless he really wanted to make a critical pass, so that Ducati did not show their torque-power advantage that would get them a weight or air intake restrictor penalty. Only Danny knows for sure... | ||
| Brapbrapbrap |
Tpoppa Posted on Wednesday, April 08, 2009 - 10:38 am: I think it's pretty cool to see an American bike on the podium I want to have that same feeling too so bad but there is not enough American content for me to say that. I also do not want to take anything away from that design as I think Rotax is as good as it gets, it's just the largest part of the bike and unfortunately it's not american manufactured. Yes I understand it was made to order by Buell. I get sentimental about Levi jeans etc too. Not much made here. Last year, we imported nearly $5 million of U.S. flags, including $4.3 million of flags from communist China. | ||
| Tpoppa |
I want to have that same feeling too so bad but there is not enough American content for me to say that. I also do not want to take anything away from that design as I think Rotax is as good as it gets, it's just the largest part of the bike and unfortunately it's not american manufactured. Yes I understand it was made to order by Buell. Without Rotax you may not have seen an 1125 on the track (I'm sure insiders have more info). It has more American content than anything it's racing against. We live in a global economy...what do you expect? | ||
| Chevycummins |
There is a rumor of an in house built v4 for possibly Buell bikes. I think they were expected to produce about 150hp. | ||
| Dentguy |
There is a rumor of an in house built v4 for possibly Buell bikes. I think they were expected to produce about 150hp. There is another rumor that it has already been approved for the Supersport class. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
There is another rumor that it has already been approved for the Supersport class. Why all the hate? IMO, DMG has done a commendable job at this tough task. Changing the status quo (ie, the Big 4s lock on racing and 600/1000cc class structure) is very difficult and the backlash has been strong--which is not unexpected. However, only the simple minded and uninformed race fan base their judgment solely on the displacement disparity between the 600s and the Buell. Unfortunately, most fall into this category. With consideration of the racing support from respective factories, the real world difference between the race-built 600s and mostly stock Buell is a 10 HP advantage for the Buell and a 25-30 pound weight advantage for the 600s. The Buell has the torque advantaage, yet the 600s spin up faster. Pretty even equation and the top speeds & fastest lap times bear this out. The Buell has yet to be on the pole. The arguments will continue--especially if the Buell keeps winning. The general buzz and excitement over this Daytona Sportbike class is unreal. DMG has certainly been successful in that regard. Whether you agree with the rules or not, the racing has been extremely competitive and compelling with multiple manufacturers and riders capable of winning and given race. |
