| Author | Message | ||
     Bads1 |
not so much art as just expensive......art would be if he made it, not buying No John is right its art. It's a crate engine produced by S&S that makes that power. In comparison to a HD engine its all billet block. Not cast. The engine will run ya about 8 grand. A new HD motor has got to be atleast 6 if not more and its slow. My Brother sold his 1340 that was in it for 2500. So really he has not much in it for the HP. It cost me more to get that out of my Buell for sure. | ||
| Pammy |
A class in the horsepower shoot-out in Daytona was won this year by a Big Dog with a Cycle Rama executed 124. It made 201HP on our dyno. It made 189 on a two drum dyno at the shoot-out. That's normally aspirated. Sometimes it's the arrow...  | ||
| Pammy |
We specialize in doing motors for bigger bikes that may have larger riders who want to accelerate when they accelerate. | ||
| Fast1075 |
Dave, the ole KZ is nothing to sneeze at considering its a 36 year old air cooled fossil...the fastest I have ever been was on one of those things  Just feed it enough Smurf Juice.... (Message edited by fast1075 on March 31, 2009) | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
"Why are harleys so slow?" Mine's not.  | ||
| Dragonslayer |
"Why are Harleys so slow?" "Why are Hayabusas and ZX-14s so slow when they come to Deal's Gap?" They're supposed to be super fast bikes, and yet I've chewed 'em up and spit 'em out with an American made V-Twin, an engine that ricers claim to be "slow". ??????????????? | ||
| Bill0351 |
"Sometimes it's the arrow..." Sounds more like a freakin' freight train. Nice | ||
| Cyclonedon |
"Why are Harleys so slow?" I don't know, maybe you should ask this guy? lol http://www.goingfaster.com/angst/noharley2.html | ||
| Pammy |
Man, if I could post some pictures.... | ||
| Rfischer |
Owwwwwww....!! But definitely thought-provoking. | ||
| Fast1075 |
Holy saddle blisters Batman...guess that dude wrote that BEFORE the '25r | ||
| Paw |
"Why are Harleys so slow?" "Why are Hayabusas and ZX-14s so slow when they come to Deal's Gap?" They're supposed to be super fast bikes, and yet I've chewed 'em up and spit 'em out with an American made V-Twin, an engine that ricers claim to be "slow". ??????????????? It all comes down to the rider any bike can go fast in a straight line...You give the majority of the riders in here a Busa or 14 let them get use to it and you will find it harder passing one of us on it as easy. Do a search on deal gap on youtube on goldwings and tell me if you can pass some of those riders. It all comes down to the skill. | ||
| Gentleman_jon |
Not all Harley's are slow by any matter of means, and Cycle Rama, of Pinellas Park Florida, and one of our sponsors, is home to many of the fast ones. Here are a couple of Pammy's customers taking their Sunday stroll on the drag strip.  Jim Briner is getting his bagger off the line rather smartly, and I am told he does not believe that a quick trip down the strip is any reason to turn down his stereo.  Chuck Jones is the head tech, and this photo shows that he practices what he preaches on his righteous Pro Dragster HD. | ||
| Rfischer |
"......BEFORE the 25R." I'm sure he did, but I don't think that would change the point[s] he makes regarding American technology and engineering. While Buell emphatically insists that the 1125 motor is their design, merely executed by Rotax, one has to wonder...... Having said that, it is commonplace in our global economy to reach out to specialists for all manner of design and manufacturing expertise to achieve the best possible combination of performance, quality, and cost-effectiveness. At least it's what successful companies do. And that is the flaw in the guy's argument. He doesn't understand well the complexities of getting leading-edge products produced at a price the customer will pay. Especially in America, Land of the Cheap and Cheaper. | ||
| Pammy |
Thanks Jon. I just thought the photo of the Bagger doing a wheelie would be funny in the thread about how slow Harley's are. | ||
| Fast1075 |
Hey I saw that Bagger run before...it gets the Fast seal of approval...it's so.....unexpected...... | ||
| Court |
>>>While Buell emphatically insists that the 1125 motor is their design, merely executed by Rotax, one has to wonder...... Not sure Buell has ever "emphatically insisted" but the fact is that the motor would not have existed absent Buell. The idea, along with detailed specifications, were brought to Rotax and a group of Buell engineers were in Austria throughout the process of taking those specs to completion. Rotax also, prior to getting the Buell specs (some of which date back to the mid 1980's) executed confidentiality agreements. Rotax's big role was to be the practical how to go from concept to production. Doubtless they contributed much more, changed things and were a huge part of the success. It was, and is, a great collaboration. Buell did not, however, to got BRP/Rotax and say "we want a motor, what do you have?" Interesting also is that Erik Buell has collaborated with motor designers (cars and bikes) over the years to augment income to keep Buell afloat in the lean years. Some of the names would be quite familiar and would lead to later collaborations between at least one of the firms (you can see the model of the car on his desk) working with HD on a model in later years. Erik was modifying and designing motors before he did complete motorcycles. | ||
| Rfischer |
Court, Yes, I know. However, I also know that one such collaboration didn't go anywhere in part because our people didn't think that Buell had the necessary motor engineering expertise. At least that's how it got reported to me. With any of these kinds of discussions there are untold undercurrents and nuances; if you are not directly part of the discussions, you cannot know why something moves ahead or doesn't. Sometimes not even if you are part of it. I have some interesting stories regarding BMW Motorrad in that regard. | ||
| Court |
Fact is . . the Helicon motor would not have existed absent Buell. | ||
| Rfischer |
Lots-0-stuff wouldn't exist if a customer didn't turn up asking for it. Tee-Hee.... | ||
| Court |
Darn Right. And . . . BRP / Rotax would not have much of the engineering featured in the Helicon motor had it not been for the efforts of the team of engineers who went to Austria from Wisconsin for the development. Again . . . I am not diminishing BRP/Rotax's work but it's important to clarify that Buell WROTE a spec, sent it to manufacturers and got proposals. When BRP/Rotax was selected the project was a joint effort. Bottom line is that Buell didn't pick up the phone, call Austria and say "we'd like a motor". BRP/Rotax also, before much of the material was conveyed, executed an agreement to not transfer Buell Engineering. | ||
| B00stzx3 |
"3 tooth hill scroggins" Wow, elitist much? What a yuppy douchebag. Oh yeah, Harleys just love Nazi symbols by the way, nothing says working-class Patriotism like the symbols of a regime we smashed to bits in world war two. Is this guy high? Oh and fuel in frame and oil in the swingarm aren't innovative at all huh. Maybe he would've spelled Erik's name right if he didn't have his head so far up his rearend. | ||
| Spatten1 |
Harley drags are the Special Olympics of motorcycle racing. | ||
| Spatten1 |
BTW, a Hayabusa will not go through a twisty road as fast as a Buell with the same rider. Isn't it obvious that a bike that weighs 100 pounds less will handle better? Buells work great in tight turns. 'Busas work great at being fast, which is what they were built for. If you want to make a comparrison take your XB out with an equal rider on a 600 or 1000 IL4 and see what happens. In my experience the Buell XB handles nearly as well on the track, and a slightly better rider can kill an IL4 on a tight course. The XB still is not fast by any definition. Can Harleys be made to go fast with tons of money? Hell yes. Can a Japanese bike go faster with 1/2 the money? Hell yes. | ||
| Spatten1 |
I had a ZX-11 back in the 90's and it was fast. I test rode a couple of Buells and they felt like Riva scooters in the power department after getting off of my Kawi. The ZX was so damn big and heavy it pushed the front end in any tight turn. My XB would kill that bike on Palomar mountain. The ZX-11 was faster. | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
"Bottom line is that Buell didn't pick up the phone, call Austria and say "we'd like a motor"." Symantics between calling them and saying, "we'd like a motor" and "we'd like you to supply a motor based on our specs." Buell/Harley still called Bombardier/Rotax and asked for a motor. Its funny, because when people here first found out Rotax was being used, folks were saying that EB designed that motor completely. Now things aren't so concrete on that..."based on buell's specs" is what's being said. Saying there wouldn't be a Helicon is like saying there wouldn't be a Thunderstorm. No doubt there wouldn't be the same exact motor, but Rotax and Harley would still been building motors like them. There's no way Harley would have allowed a completely new motor to be designed by Rotax for Buell, ground up, ala the Revolution for VRod. There's been a history of borrowing platorms for Buell motors, Thunderstorm from Sportster, and now the Helicon from Rotax. I don't believe for one minute that the Helicon was a crate motor supplied by Rotax, but I don't believe it was a completely brand new concept either. (Message edited by Buellinachinashop on April 03, 2009) | ||
| Court |
>>>but I don't believe it was a completely brand new concept either. Then . . . to quote Warner Wolf . . . "YOU'D LOOSE". Rotax had never seen the concept until they, and the other candidates for building it, were sent the RFP. With that . . . I bid this thread farewell before I get in trouble.  | ||
| Fast1075 |
"Harley drags are the Special Olympics of motorcycle racing".....Being a dragbike fan, owner and rider...I have to agree with that if you are looking at events where completely inexperienced street riders on questionable bikes show up at an event to "race"....however the results are no different from events where it is "Brand X" bikes that show up...with their equally squiddy riders....but you have to admit it's a hoot to watch. But look at NHRA ProStock Bike...the class is anything but special...and who is competitive, if not on the box...the harleys if they can find the clutch setup that day....or better yet....Hector Arana on a what??? A BUELL....OK...with 160ci of S&S madness between the knees...Go Buell Racing!! Have you been in the 6's today??? And oh yeah...at my local home track (1/8 mile) a few years ago, I saw Bill Furr smash the track record for motorcycles with a 4.48 180+ blast....right out of the trailer...on one of his old direct drive injected nitro bikes... I know the arguments...a stock xyzgr 600 can outrun a blah blah blah....it ain't apples to apples....My old ragged 10" tire KZ POS can outrun most "harleys" with one nitrous solenoid disconnected....but where is the sport in that??? It's like the 200 pound heavyweight champion wooping the pencil neck geek. | ||
| Mr_grumpy |
Why are Harleys so slow is the title of the thread I believe. Define slow. If you have to make statements like that, please provide the parameters of comparison. I wouldn't mind betting that on a long interstate haul, some Harleys would be faster overall. Less fuel stops, less stretching & coffee breaks etc. If you want to see a quick Harley that handles too, go visit Grndskpr in Chicago & try his Dyna Sport, I guarantee you'll be amazed. | ||
| Paw |
Why are Harleys so slow is the title of the thread I believe. Define slow. If you have to make statements like that, please provide the parameters of comparison. I believe the original poster did do that in comparing his friends Hog to his XB9. |
