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Court
| | Posted on Sunday, March 29, 2009 - 06:31 am: | 
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>>>think that Buells don't deserve to be racing
They'll be getting used to it . . . . I suspect they are in for some large surprises in the next couple years.
How do they feel about Buell winning. . . .. regardless of perceived reason, on a annual budget of less the 1/10th their weekly budget?
They've become fat and corporate . . . . time for some fun from the good ol' American kids who hot rodded '57 Chevys and now have the best education and technology in the world. |
Hooliagn
| | Posted on Sunday, March 29, 2009 - 07:00 am: |
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140 rwhp seems abit understated for the superbikes considering in their stock configurations they're all making 160 rwhp of more. |
Diablo1
| | Posted on Sunday, March 29, 2009 - 07:53 am: |
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Stock engine is strong enough for superbike, yet not too strong for sportbike class?
Precisely!
The 1125 motor is an overdog in Sportbike and an underdog in Superbike. And that's why people are scratching their heads with the bike competing in two classes against the little bikes and big bikes.} |
Madav8tr
| | Posted on Sunday, March 29, 2009 - 08:30 am: |
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The motor is such an "overdog" yet it only posted the 3rd fastest lap times and there was only 1 in the top ten of the race. Yep, total Buell Domination there. Did you catch the 2nd race results? You know how close it was with such an "overdog" motor? Why are you trolling a Buell forum again? |
Diablo1
| | Posted on Sunday, March 29, 2009 - 08:41 am: |
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The motor is such an "overdog" yet it only posted the 3rd fastest lap times and there was only 1 in the top ten of the race.
Having more motor doesn't necessarily mean "best lap time". And it did have the best "average lap time". Despite your claims to the contrary, any non-biased observer would conclude the 1125 out-motored the competition. I'm not trolling, just dragging you back to reality.}
Best average lap time? If the rider/bike finished, then that'd be the race winner there sparky. So using your •••••• up logic, any machine that wins a race must have more motor. Pretty ••••••• stupid huh.
(Message edited by Blake on March 29, 2009) |
Hooliagn
| | Posted on Sunday, March 29, 2009 - 09:05 am: |
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The key word is "average".
That's just further proof of a better, consistent rider.
On one hand you say it's not proof of more motor and then you say that it could be.
One cake to look at, one cake to eat ?
(Message edited by hooliagn on March 29, 2009)
(Message edited by hooliagn on March 29, 2009) |
Geforce
| | Posted on Sunday, March 29, 2009 - 09:53 am: |
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I remember when Toyota started racing in NASCAR. I'm not even in a big NASCAR fan and I didn't like it. A foreign motor company in an American Motorsport? Yuck. But you gotta give them credit for trying.
It's almost like the shoe is on the other foot now. And something I cannot figure out for the life of me is that in all other breeds of motorsports, vehicles are different. Different motors and designs and technology, and for decades people have argued about X Company/Motor/ Vehicle/Bike not being fair because of X, Y, Z. It's going to continue to happen. What really eats me up is that for decades Japan and Europe have controlled the motorcycle industry with respect to sport bikes. I would think more Americans would cheer Buell on, regardless of their brand of cereal preference. But it seems like many things these days that Americans don't really love America, that to me is truly heartbreaking as I have served this great country for almost seven years and everyday I wake up in this country I am thankful. I am thankful for things like Buell, for people who bust their @sses for decades to achieve a dream and set of goals. Despite what the rest of the world thinks... Go Buell Go!
As for the motor... I am not sure what the engine is actually capable of. I am sure with forged internals and some tweaking it might make a bit more power, but I guess the engine maker might know a bit more about that. Good example...
The Grand National powerplant. For a long time it was chastised as a little V-6. People knew the cars were fast, but it wasn't until the cars were in the hands of some very capable people that others began to see just how tough that little V6 block was. It's truly sad that such a great project... "Grand National Experimental or GNX" was axed after it blew the doors off a Calloway Corvette in 1987. GM couldn't have those Buick nerds making something faster than their beloved flagship... especially if it was cheaper, faster, and got better fuel economy. Ridiculous.
I am almost glad the GN died, because in a few years GM would have destroyed it anyways. I don't think Buell has to worry about this. Correct me if I am wrong Court, but I don't think HD is going to axe any of Erik's projects because it outruns the V-Rod. I don't think Buell has reached it's pinnacle just yet, it's just getting started. With time and more influence and growth, Buell is going to become a major competitor in the future. The motors, the design philosophy are there, as Buell wins, it is going to force other makers to really think about what they are producing.
As for the rules and all that. I didn't make them, and in my career we try to move mountains with spoons, adapt and overcome. If I were Erik, I'd have my hands in as much racing as possible, and I think he's doing just that. Go Buell Go!
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Hooliagn
| | Posted on Sunday, March 29, 2009 - 10:16 am: |
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Well Said ..... |
Dentguy
| | Posted on Sunday, March 29, 2009 - 11:32 am: |
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It's not all about HP.
So you are saying that the Buell is overpowering in the Sportbike class, but HP isn't as important in Superbike? Can't have it both ways.
Never said HP isn't as important in Superbike and not trying to have anything both ways.
To be clearer I should have said, It's not all about HP (referring to an HP comment from someone else), it's also about torque.
As for overpowering in the Sportbike class, it's not for me to decide. I will say that I watched the race, heard the comments and saw the Buell pull away from the field. Looked like a very competitive race behind 1st.
I'm not looking to argue if the 1125 should be in the sportbike class. That's for AMA to decide. The race just looked like a lot of lesser powered 600's pushing to the edge trying to keep up with a more powerful bike.
Just saying how it looked. I'm sure it will get sorted out if AMA doesn't think it's fair. If enough riders don't think it's fair and AMA does nothing, people just won't want to race the class.
(Message edited by dentguy on March 29, 2009) |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Sunday, March 29, 2009 - 11:57 am: |
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Actually, the facts from the time splits showed that the fast 600's and the Aprilia were faster on the straights. The Buell was good at initial acceleration, which was what got Danny the lead when the flag turned green. The one announcer was commenting on what he saw, which was that the Buell was smoother in the corners. It seemed like the other guy was attributing it to Danny not working as hard. But in fact, that's actually where Danny was the fastest, in the corners.
AMA has already looked at all the split times and the radar and sent out a message about that to the other teams, saying they will not make a penalty until it is shown that the bike's power gives it an advantage. |
Court
| | Posted on Sunday, March 29, 2009 - 12:00 pm: |
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>>>>any non-biased observer would conclude the 1125 out-motored the competition.
Give me the name of ONE such "non-biased observer".
I've been around motorcycle since the years I sponsored a Grand National Team and have YET to run into that sum-bitch.
The Buells are on the levelest playing field the sanctioning bodies, in concert with ALL THE MANUFACTURES, could create. If you see ANYONE (including Suzki) dominate the series they will be re-leveled next year.
Thank goodness it's brought (Buell is THE topic of discussion on almost every racing forum as well as the Aprilia forum) some interest back to racing. |
Blake
| | Posted on Sunday, March 29, 2009 - 02:32 pm: |
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What anonymous said, plus the fact that all the battling among the also-rans slowed them down significantly, which is the case in ANY race. The the competitors behind the leader get into tight battles for 2nd place, they usually fall further and further behind the leader. That's exactly what happened.
Aside from his spectacular start where he shrewdly got the jump on the competition, the claim that Danny "motored" away is pure hogwash. |
Fresnobuell
| | Posted on Sunday, March 29, 2009 - 03:11 pm: |
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I am sure with forged internals and some tweaking it might make a bit more power, but I guess the engine maker might know a bit more about that.
That brings up a great point. Unlike the in-house race departments of the big Four, BMC has to go thru Rotax for any motor-related parts. I know my new exhaust cam was manufactured in Austria. It would be super interesting to see how much Rotax is supporting Buell Racing via trick parts or "perfect" parts off the assembly line? |
Blake
| | Posted on Sunday, March 29, 2009 - 04:34 pm: |
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Not happening. So much for super interesting. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Monday, March 30, 2009 - 12:47 am: |
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Rotax is not doing any trick parts. They are busy with many other projects, and have provided a solid motor. All the engines in SportBike were straight from the production line, unopened. The hop up stuff is slowly being developed with aftermarket companies and the tiny race engineering team at Buell. With a bit of advice via e-mail from Rotax on questions that come up. Patience, patience. |
Blake
| | Posted on Monday, March 30, 2009 - 08:47 am: |
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With clarification that "the hop up stuff" would be for Superbike development, not SportBike, yes? |
Brapbrapbrap
| | Posted on Monday, March 30, 2009 - 09:50 am: |
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Anonymous
Posted on Monday, March 30, 2009 - 12:47 am:
Rotax is not doing any trick parts
Is the relationship still good between Rotax and Buell or are they still upset over the initial 1125R reviews when the language barrier fuel map issue was present?
THats a lot of words, I guess my question is will Rotax continue to work with Buell? |
Court
| | Posted on Monday, March 30, 2009 - 10:05 am: |
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>>>will Rotax continue to work with Buell?
Absolutely.
If there was a problem in the past . . . no one told anyone at Buell or BRP/Rotax.
The effort has been a true "win-win" for both companies. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Monday, March 30, 2009 - 11:45 pm: |
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Yes for Superbike, Blake. No mods needed for SportBike. |
Paint_shaker
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 31, 2009 - 10:45 am: |
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"...but the rest of the racing community think that Buells don't deserve to be racing. That is a fact. I have been around the racing community for a very long time. I can tell you that from both a spectator perspective and that of a racers, the majority of people in the paddock don't like Buell."
How many of those people you mention have ever ridden a Buell?? My guess would be not very many. I would further speculate they base their "Buell experience" on what they have HEARD about Harley or Buell in the past. Or what some anti-Harely/Beull motorcycle rag has to say. |
Court
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 31, 2009 - 11:10 am: |
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quote:"...but the rest of the racing community think that Buells don't deserve to be racing.
That cuts me to the quick . . . . and to think that Buell conceived this entire platform and race program in hopes of getting on someone's Xmas list and to make folks like them . . . .
Look . . . . I'm not that fond of some of them either . . . and, when they win, we'll they've beat me . . . but when we win . . . let'em deal with it.
Shame to be excluded from the Miss Congeniality finals among manufacturers, eh?
That's kinda the nature of racing and competition.
(Message edited by court on March 31, 2009) |
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