| Author | Message | ||
     Sstlouisjak |
I am having an issue with disappearing oil. My bikes not leaving puddles anywhere. I see no sign of oil blow by on my tire or anywhere else. I was told today it could be settling in the bottom of my engine ,which honestly confused me. I would have thought there would be oil there anyway. He said something about when a motor sets for a long while it will build up sludge, and it clogs something up. He was busy at the time and didn't have time to elaborate. He said if I got to much oil in it that it would blow the oil filler cap out. I said it couldn't do that because the seat won't let it. He said that the oil will find a way out. Once right after I got the bike I had started it up with the seat off and came back a few seconds later to find the oil filler cap was gone. It had blown half way across the yard. I figured it was just good oil pressure, with the seat being off, it wasn't there to stop it. Anyway I had the oil and filter changed awhile back and right around 1000 miles later I noticed the oil was not touching the dip stick. So I had them top it off for me, it was just a couple weeks ago. Actually the day before the Daytona race where that Yamaha won. Then yesterday I noticed it wasn't touching the dip stick again and added almost another quart. I've gone about 1500 miles since the oil was changed, and have added at least a quart maybe more. While I was looking for plug wires today (which wasn't easy to do) I ask the clerk that was checking me out about it. He was the guy who told me the above. Does this ring a bell with anyone as to what I need to do ? Thanks in advance... | ||
| Zenfrogmaster |
Are you checking the oil when hot and with the bike level? | ||
| Bikerjim99 |
Your engine is called a dry sump engine, which means the oil is stored in the oil tank, not in the engine.There is a check valve that keeps the oil from working its way back into the engine, but it can leak a bit and let some oil back into the engine. This is not necessarily harmful, just be aware that you must check the oil the same way everytime. If you check the oil after the bike has been sitting for awhile, you can get a false reading. Check the oil after the engine has been throughly warmed up, keeping the bike close to level, right after you shut off the bike. The best time is immediately after a ride of some distance, say 15 miles or more. Check the oil the exact way each time, and you can get an idea of your level. Oil usage seems to vary with each individual bike, some seem to use a bit until the level drops down in the tank. Some bikes can use some oil, some not so much. My S3 uses about a quart to 1200 miles since new. You have a great bike, enjoy! Jim | ||
| Sstlouisjak |
Yes the oil was hot and the 1st time I know it was level, but the other time was kind of iffy. I was going to check it this evening but my battery was dead. I guess I need a new battery also. (Message edited by sstlouisjak on March 19, 2009) | ||
| Sstlouisjak |
Thank You So Much Jim... I was afraid I was going to have to tear into her to clean something out. I was wondering if since it had set for several years if maybe I should run some of that Marvel Mystery Oil in her to clean out the sludge. | ||
| Eshardball |
Just for ha ha's, check the level in your primary and make sure your crank seal insn't also starting to leak. If it is, you will find the oil above the pressure plate spring.If your clutch feels like it is dragging it is may be telling you so. I notice my oil consumption also slows down once the oil drops down near the lower mark. Hopefully its nothing to worry about. | ||
| Sstlouisjak |
Yes Eshardball, Thanks for the advice, I was going to do that... I just haven't been able to at this time... I'm am in the process of getting a stand for her so I can do stuff like that... I really hope its not that. She seems to be shifting fine and after reading past threads about oil on the rear tire, I've been keeping a close eye out hope'n that isn't the problem. | ||
| Eshardball |
Hope not. Oil puking out of the trans vent is a good indicator. Hopefully its nothing more than thats how much she consumes and now you know how often to check it | ||
| Eshardball |
Check the Motrax stand from Northern Tool. It was less than $50 and Cycle gear was getting about $140 for the same piece. i just bought the pit bull and then someone posted this info but I don't remember the name of the thread | ||
| Sstlouisjak |
Yeah I was looking at that in the post I read a few days ago and couldn't find it either. I did find northern tool has two different stands, best I can tell, the one you can get an adaptor to use it on the front wheel. | ||
| Eshardball |
I know that Cycle Gear carries a Pit Bull dedicate front stand that looks very solid. I have their rear stand and like it. Unfortunately the summer weight jacket that they had on sale cut into the money that I had to spend that day | ||
| Sstlouisjak |
Oh Man...I found a leak...I haven't got a chance to get in to it to see where its coming from. But it is leaking from the rear twin on the end of the starter and some on the exhaust. I noticed it had the negative side of the battery oily. What gets me is its running better now then it ever has. She is humming. I checked the oil when I filled up. It was fine. I noticed a burnt smell in the air but figured it was some one burning trash. I rode 11 miles home and noticed that smell again. When I was coving her up, I noticed the starter had oil on it. I was going to take the heat shield off but one of the screws are stripped so I couldn't really see where it was coming from. If the engine was getting to much oil in it would it blow the head gaskets or is there an over flow to let the extra oil out? I'm just wondering if I've got one problem that caused another or if this is just common. Oh Yeah; She has 4000 miles on her now... Thanks (Message edited by sstlouisjak on March 24, 2009) | ||
| Littlebuggles |
Still possible it could be the rocker box gasket, they can make a pretty big mess, I know when my rear one went it was bad. I think they were still using paper ones on the 01's prolly want to clean up the rear cyl good and see where it's coming from. Start simple. If you over filled it it would probably blow out of your crank breathers if it couldn't push your fill cap back off. But I could be wrong. | ||
| Brinnutz |
Replace the rocker box gaskets, it's probably that if it's on the exhaust and starter from the rear. If you can get a pic where the head meets the rocker box, it'd probably help too. | ||
| Pkforbes87 |
The first time my rocker box gaskets went bad, I could actually feel crankcase pressure coming through.. Check for that.. | ||
| Sstlouisjak |
I got to get into it a little this morning. I checked for pressure coming from the area it looked like it was leaking from but couldn't feel anything. I was going to let it warm up and ride it a ways but a storm is brewing figured I better hold up on that for now. I did get a picture But its not a very good one.  | ||
| Brinnutz |
That's a lot. But I'm pretty sure if you change the rocker box gaskets to the new updated I bet you'll solve the problem. Checking for pressure won't do much up there, didn't for mine. It just seeped while riding, couldn't mimmick sitting there idling. Just change them both, I bet a case of beer you're problem will be solved. | ||
| Essmjay |
It seems to me you would have big puddles if you were losing quarts of oil from the rockerboxes. I had a similar problem, it was leaking valve guide seals, so I was just burning off a lot of oil. No real visible sign once the bike warmed up other than the hot oil smell. If you pull the rocker boxes to do the gaskets it will be obvious. You can also check by pulling the exhaust and looking at the valve guides with a flashlight. | ||
| Bluzm2 |
It's the rocker gaskets.. just change them out and be done with it. While you are in there, do the umbrella valve mods too. Just need a 1/8" bit and a 3/8 bit to chamfer the hole. All the info is in the KV complete with pictures. Brad | ||
| Sstlouisjak |
OK...I've been basking in the KV and my SM I cut down an allen wrench and removed the rear cover. I also disconnected my battery. What I need to know now is about the replacement gaskets . I also noticed the service manual says to replace the fiber seals on the upper rocker cover and the rubber gaskets marked 6-7 and 8. Are these the ones they say can be reused if placed in the freezer for 15 or 20 mins ? Does anyone know the part number for the metal gasket? I found one for an X1 post, saying a EVO 1200 sportster OEM 17030-91 was what they needed for an X1. Will that work on a M2 ? Also will the gasket kit come with the front and rear gaskets or do I need to buy 2 ? Thanks... Here is another picture I took this morning.It looks like its leaking at the base of the rocker box.  | ||
| Oldog |
jak this is a replace all parts kind of job. Also its considered a "rite of passage" for old schoolers  The crappy paper bottom gasket is the culprate, an old school Buell is like an airplane work on it or walk... but thats not all bad, unlike an XB a tuber about the easiest to deal with (Message edited by oldog on March 25, 2009) | ||
| Littlebuggles |
The kit should come with everything, X1 will be fine as they are the exact same motor on the top. Just replace the fiber gaskets, they're cheap, I don't recall if they are in the kit, maybe reusable but they are the crushable sort and on a eight year old bike they should be done. You should just get a sheet of them, seems like there's eight in a sheet. | ||
| Preybird1 |
The kit is $58 if you do the rocker conversion it's $117 and a ton better if you go this route. Why drill the umbrella valves when you can throw them away!! Less upper rocker gaskets and less parts means less to go wrong later! Also taking the middle section out of the rocker boxes saved me about 1.5 lbs of weight The PVC valves will eliminate the pump action of air in the push rod tubes, At some point the air coming from the push rods at certain RPMS will not exit the motor properly and just pump's up and down trapped in the motor | ||
| Littlebuggles |
Preybird makes an excellent point regarding pricing, if you can afford it the XB rocker cover conversion is a good way to go. Just as easy as doing the the gaskets too, just have to reroute your breather lines from your new pcv valves. | ||
| Sstlouisjak |
Thank You All. Yes I agree with you Preybird1 that does sound like the way to go. Wish I could afford to. I couldn't find the gasket kits today, but I did find the metal gasket. Its rubber coated and is a one piece , where the manual shows two pieces. (part 16 and 17 in the drawing). Its part number 16800-84A I'm still a little confused about what I need to do to remove what needs removed, to get to the gasket I'm after. Do I need to rotate the crankshaft until the piston is top dead center? It seems I read you can do that by turning your rear tire in 4th or 5th gear. Wouldn't it being on a stand make that easier to do? Or could I just roll the bike until it reaches that point, since I don't have a stand yet? In the note after step 5 it says to remove the rocker box as an assembly; then disassemble as required.? I don't need to disassemble it do I? One more thing... I've got a Torque Wrench its in ft /lbs but has the Newton meter range. Does that convert the foot lbs to inch pounds ? I agree with Oldog this is one of them replace everything kind of jobs. Its kind of like do it right the 1st time or don't do it until you can kind of thing. I want to enjoy my rite to passage working on this bike. I wanna do it right. BUT...Patients was never one of my virtues... I wanna ride... | ||
| Preybird1 |
Put the bike in 5th gear and get it to TDC use a small floor jack, I use a small car one, Put the jack just under the rear shock mount at the rear of the shock and jack the bike's rear tire 1" off the ground and grab tire and rotate it and watch the rocker's to see where they are at each turn. This can be tricky, If you think you are there and you are removing the bolts from the rocker box (the inner lower bolt's) the last 3 If you have the FSM and got to this point so far, Watch the rocker box very carefully as you loosen the bolts and if it lifts more than 1\8" then your rocker box is still under spring load. turn the wheel some more and try again. The first time took me a few tries but this job is easy now. I believe the gasket is a one piece now, Can't remember right now. The fiber seals can be substituted for paper gasket material found at napa, Checker auto, auto zone. Just trace and cut to size. As for afford it shipping sucks to pay if you can get it in town but here is a link i got from BRINNUTZ Thanks AGAIN!!! 20% off all parts but you must have the part numbers http://www.lshd1.com/servlet/StoreFront GOOD LUCK and keep us posted | ||
| Sstlouisjak |
Wow...That was fun...It all went real well. Thank You Preybird1..! The bike was easy to jack up like you said. And finding TDC wasn't hard either following your advice. I was on the wrong high side of the breath it took. I noticed it had pressure on it as I was releasing the base plate so I spun it another breath. (It sounded like it was breathing.) It was cool... I really enjoyed doing this... I pulled the plug out like the book said to do but that didn't help any at all. I couldn't see anything in there but a hole. I sure couldn't tell if the valves were opened or closed that way... The worst part of the job after finding TDC was cleaning the old fiber gasket off. And the gasket was bad... I took some pictures of it, but they didn't turn out to good. Then my batteries went dead, so I didn't get many. Here is the old gasket:   This is the new gasket  This is after I got all the old gasket off.   I test rode Her 4 miles and checked ..No leaks..Then I rode 15 miles and checked ...No leaks... Put 50 miles on her, No Leaks... Thank You All Very Much. I love my bike D |
