| Author | Message | ||
     Xoptimizedrsx |
The drummer on the 1125 bike yes its high and yes its nice. That pipe will be 100% fine. There was a lot more development than most people will ever know on the pipe. The ecm is well with in scale and adjust perfectly to the pipe once mounted. You dont need to re-tune the bike. Again the ecm will learn the pipe fine. No re-tune is necessary for the pipe. you can retune to get even more out of the bike but thats a personal decision not needed as a bolt on. The pipe is not a slip on its a mid pipe and muffler. Kevin Drummer is one hell of a guy and went through great measures to make it. its expensive. It has the correct lengths in each part designed by him. I would not run logos or pipes from him myself if it was a issue on the ecm's. There are no issues on his pipe and the stock ecm on the 1125 bikes. Its one hell of a improvement the best out there. Bolt it on ride it 30 mins and the ecm is learned and ready to give it all it has. mike | ||
| Easyrider |
mike, ik daily dyno Buells with all kind of setup's trom all out of Europe, and ik try tot understand what you are trying tot say. I have never see a ecm keeping up with another bold on exhaust. I hope that you can explain in more technical detail why you think that Buell made the most wonderful ecm and most intelligent ecm in the world, that is able tot adjust itself even when you bold on another pipe. That would be the most intelligent ecm in the market. Whatever kind of motorcycle you have just put another exhaust on it, let the Bike learn and there is your self adjusted fuelmap, with af lot more hp and torque. Keep on dreaming. | ||
| Buelldyno_guy |
I guess the nice thing about this country and this board is that one can all say what they think and believe it. Again as I have said elsewhere Drummer mufflers work great and I am sure this one will be like the XB's in that way. Tuning is taking a base line as received then seeing if improvements can be made to suit the riders use and needs. There is nothing special in any muffler including this one where the muffler fits the fuel tables in it's design. As a rule they are designed to maintain some standard V/E numbers and if they do the perform well. Kevin developed the different XB units in that manner and are easy to tune due to being a good design. It's how one uses and rides the bike that varies some tuning decisions. Race bikes spend some time at very light loads and higher RPM, where canyon and street racers spend a lot of time accelerating and de-accelerating. The difference in RPM under a trailing throttle going through a turn between an XB at 3 to 4 K and the 1125 at 6 to 7 K is not an exhaust issue until the rider twist it to WOT. Kevin's stuff has always passed that test. What the tuner brings to the table using several different methods is what the data looks like in that condition. Bikes running in highly competitive classes with HP spreads of less than 10 HP between a grid of 40+ can not give up from .1 - .2 sec before the hammer hits. In some open twin classes and much closer to the subject at hand, an 1125 must take advantage of it's excellent corner speed when racing bikes with a 30+ HP advantage. We tune bikes in closed loop so that the ECM needs little if any correction signal from the 02 sensor. About learning (self tuning) ECM's, from my experience they all work as well as the designer spent the time to develop them. The Buell XB and 1125 uses both open and closed loop to get the job done and in stock condition they di it well. If the Buell race exhaust system didn't need to be tuned they would not have spent development time for a tunable ECM. Just my $.02 worth Terry - JT&S Performance (Message edited by buelldyno_guy on February 26, 2009) | ||
| No_rice |
now, when i first got alot of seat time on the preproduction 1125's that was a specific question i asked Abe. i can not explaint to you what the heck Abe's title is at buell, but i do know he is the guy should know most every answer of a technical nature. i have spoken to him a good handful of times and am always impressed with his knowledge. anyway. one of my main questions to Abe was how adaptive this new set up would be to changes(ie. exhaust,intake,ect) and his response was that this ecm had more things it was capable of reading than we would be used to. he said it would be very adaptive to changes made to things like exhaust and such. now obviously this isnt word for word as my memory is not THAT perfect and this was in october of 07 at road america. but you get the drift. im sure there is no way anyone computer could compensate for every change you might make, but i do believe computers are plenty smart enough anymore to be made capable of adapting to some changes like exhaust. but what do i know | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Race bikes spend some time at very light loads and higher RPM, where canyon and street racers spend a lot of time accelerating and de-accelerating. Come again? | ||
| Buelldyno_guy |
Racing I'd different that riding fast on the road that's all it was about. I am sure there are a lot of you out there that go faster in the twisties than I do at the track. But on back to back rides through turn 6 at Infineon Raceway on my ULY and a 1125 the XB is at 4500 RPM and light throttle for 4-5 sec. While the 1125 is at 6000 for the same amount of time. That's just one long turn on one lap. Now do that for 8 laps and 11 turns, I don't think we see too much of that even on a very agresive road ride. Terry | ||
| Easyrider |
No_rice, The stock exhaust fuel map, is running lean and not able to adjust itself within the current margin with the stock exhaust, I see it daily when I dyno the bikes from customers. All customers that come buy, with stock exhaust, or aftermarket exhaust, have complains about, a jurking bike. Not running well etc etc. After taking care of the ignition map and fuel map the problems are gone. I had a lot of 1125 on the dyno, and not 1 remap of the ECM(because of the emission requirements) was able to keep up with the exhaust mounted when you want it. The stock ECM, is programmed to run with a complete new engine (not running 1 mile), and a engine with 15000 miles on it. The margin to compensate this is not possible in the stock Buell ECM. The best thing to do, also for the lifetime of your engine, is run in the engine and take care that the bike is getting enough fuel. Go to a dyno shop, let them drill 2 holes in your exhaust and measure the front and rear AF and adjust it to your requirements. just my 2 cents. | ||
| Buelldyno_guy |
We just installed dual 02 bungs in our AFM Race 1125. and now have dual 02's in everything we tune except stock tube frame X-1 and S-3. Remember it's a closed loop system using a narrow band sensor. The only value it can see is 14.7 and so that is what it controls too. On an XB, if it sees a rich condition on the rear it makes a correction to both cylinders, but removing fuel from both. Way often I have seen a lean misfire caused this way. While that is not an issue with the 1125 even in the race ECM the 14.7 narrow band sensor is maintained allowing a nice lean condition at everything off power. I will have our race 1125 in the box next week using both Henry's ECM and the stock ECM and Direct Link. Looking forward to that. Terry - JT&S Performance | ||
| Xoptimizedrsx |
on this pipe or any with the buell. the new pipes be any pipe you like designed well to be in the lcl area. you will see that the new learned afv will have moved the table to where it needs to be. different things go on with different loads. I use dual o2 widebands. with dual gauges. I also use a braked dyno. i see the same things everyone sees in the xb lean misfires up front and rich and lean cells. the 1125r id a better design with 2 o2's correcting on the fly. it still has a few issues. but with a pipe thats tuned correctly and breathing better it does clear up some of the issues. I'm not knocking anyone here or there. we all know our work and how to do this ecm as well as the xb's. so know. some think they know. i might not know it all. but, i do understand and hold my ground. the 14.7 is only 14.7 because its the way the ecm was programed to see it. being thats the best complete burn in the fuel. you can offset that in the ecm then its now a little leaner or richer . your choice. with a NB O2 you are really limited to the offset. you want to clear it up use a LC1 in there place and scale it to a offset you need. close off the o2 learn completely then tune directly from the map. there are a few ways to do this. once you have the tune complete just reactivate the learn. this will keep the bike in its proper state. its not rocket science here. I was just stating the pipe is made correctly and works within the ecm's range very very well. your fine running the drummer on the bikes as a bolt on. if you race then retune to your engine and style riding. every rider is different as well as every bike. wear, tq, spects. flow, and wear on the parts. air flow. the issues with lean spikes or rich spikes in the map can be there with one pipe but not with another due to revision waves flow heat. with a good pipe the tune can run totally different on the same map. you have to run it to see what its doing. plus on a learning ecm you must ride it let it learn then test it. the bike likes its 14.7 just fine for the street. racing well we all use different tricks there. i stage my data it staggers on timing and afr i'm between 13.2 and 14.1 at all times afr unless you miss a gear and are to high a gear you may get a 12.9 min then but it clears right up. terry if i am in daytona this week I can stop in if you tell me your location or get me on a list to get to where you are at. i live not far from daytona. it would be cool to swap info in person. mike | ||
| Xb9 |
Just blame the EPA for all this nonsense.... Confucius say: That's all I know is I know what works...... what do I know  | ||
| Buelldyno_guy |
Mike you going in the right direction for the races but 2600 miles in the wrong direction so stop past. But should you ever get out here to N Calif please do. Terry |
