| Author | Message | ||
     Jima4media |
The Fischer looks like a good plan so far. They've got a good designer, Glynn Kerr who has penned a lot of nice designs. Gemini Racing, who did a good job with the VR-1000 frame, and they are using a tried and true motor, the Rotax twin, so it will make it easier for government certifications. But even with a $100 million dollar investment by angel investors (which I doubt) I still give this bike a 1% chance of making it, given the current economy, and dealer network. You would probably get a better return on investment by taking that money to Las Vegas. Still I hope Fischer Motors and Vincent Motors can do something in the next couple of years to wake up the industry. By the by, I heard a couple of good rumors on the Buell front... The first is if you put a X-1 flywheel/connecting rod assembly in a XB9, you will get a lot more horsepower out of it than you would expect. The second is dealers are being advised to be sure and not miss the Buell University school coming up in the spring. Anybody else here, hear these things? Jim X-2.5 | ||
| Mikej |
I'll ask on Sunday. | ||
| José_Quiñones |
Could you still rev it to 7,500 rpm with the X1's 3.8 inch stroke? Look to the Pro Thunder bike, they were using a 3.6 inch stroke and still shifting them at 7,500 rpm, when they didn't miss a shift or overrevved it...... ________________________________________________________
Yes, the writer of the article about this Fischer bike did just that in the January issue of Cycle World:
I wonder why Steve_A let that one slip by...... | ||
| José_Quiñones |
The January Motorcyclist has this little jem inside the review of the Aprilia Tuono, which they proclaimed to be the most Bad-Ass Naked bike available right now:
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| Kerryx1 |
""For a guy with no hair (by the way, what does it say under "hair color" on your drivers license?)"" Court, Hair color listed on my license is "Ruddy Complexion" I wish I never got a damn license. If I never got one, I couldn't lose it! 'Ole Baldie  (I'm the one on the left!) | ||
| Hootowl |
Jose, I was under the impression that the limiting factor (mainly) with the sporty engine's RPM limit is the hydraulic valves that tend to float above 6K. The new valvetrain, with its NASCAR type beehive valve springs and lightweight valves push that up to 8K, and Buell set the limiter at 7.5K It would be interesting to see some longevity data on a motor thusly equipped. | ||
| Stormfool |
What is so groundbreaking about a Rotax lump from some other bike? I have to agree with Steve_A and Court--the article does a great disservice to those 6.5 Miles SW. I'm not overawed with the chassis or the exterior design--v. japanese. One look at a Buell and you know it's not some run of the mill machine--the Fischer looks like a homolugation of every Jap design element thrown in a blender--as far as reaching the light of day, well it seems doubtful--then again GhezziBrian did... | ||
| Eeeeek |
Some blind devotion, here. A few years ago, the same things were being said about Aprilia. They seem to have done pretty well with the Rotax Engine. You may also remember the development cycle on the Mille was rather quick. Yes, it's in the early phases and nothing may come of it. I, personally, like the idea of an American company challenging the Japanese. Right now, there is not an American bike to compete with the Superbikes. This is the country that brought to life the Corvette, the Viper and countless other kick ass cars. As far as bikes go, we have some nice cruisers, most of which are firmly rooted in the past. So yes, I get excited when I see someone from our homeland even thinking about making a superbike. Bringing it to life in one year, especially when you use an existing engine/trany, is VERY realistic. Vik | ||
| Dynarider |
Isnt one of the big names in AMA racing building his own bikes to compete next year? Or at least attempting to do so? I cant remember his name & dont follow the racing scene closely at all. But he had to have 50 bikes & some small dealership network in order to compete. Anyone know how thats coming along? | ||
| Jrh |
I think Kenny Roberts Sr. has been trying to build a G.P. 2 stroke for about 5 years now,giving up and starting on a new design. Hey Dyna...congratulations on your grandson,he can be riding beside you when you're only 56,just middle age,young for a grandpa,ain't there some kinda Harley tradition that the Gramps always gives his H.D.to his first born grandson? | ||
| Court |
Kerry: By the power vested in me, I hereby declare you the "Most Aerodynamic Buell Freak". It's so good to have you back here participating. >>>>Some blind devotion, here. Huh? . . wrong number Dude. How many Rotax engines you own? I'm sitting 3' from one. In fact, I LOVE the Rotax engine; particularly the one that took me to the Sacramento Mile that fateful day I wandered across the first RR-1000, headed to SMF, chartered a Cessna 421 and headed to search for a place called Road "X" somewhere in the heartland. Ahhh...Rotax, to me, means fond memories. Here, take a minute and tour the West Wall of the Buell Basement. . .  This was a GREAT moment. One of those indoor arenas, about the 5th start and finally got the race off but Mikey jumped and ended up at the back of the pack. Mike won in the final 10' after fighting his way through the entire pack.  I loved this entire weekend. We has the Shasta and the California Suites at the Red Lion, great music at Armando Magri's and I'd just put the finishing touches on Arden Fair Mall renovation less than 48 hours earlier....ahead of schedule and under budget. Party on Wayne! Rotax? If you are looking for someone to badmouth Rotax, I'm the wrong tree to bark up. I suspect you'll fare no better with Steve. Rotax have stood the test of time in every configuration and use they've been pressed into. Besides, the last thing I want to do is piss off a bunch of Austrians right before Peter goes skiing. TIDBIT: By the way....any of you guys ever wondered who the OTHER TWO candidates (and back ups) were for the TEAM ELVES effort? The young fellow in the above pics, now a genuine grown up much awarded HD dealer, is SERIOUSLY fast and one of the most disciplined riders I’ve ever known, dirt or asphalt. Nope, my ONLY objection was that everybody who shows up with any new "cream dream" has to introduce it to me by explaining how Erik Buell "dropped the ball" by not doing this or doing that. I was there when the ball was deflated, we had no air and air was expensive and the Buell family’s next meal was at the end of a VERY long tunnel few could see or imagine. I am thrilled about any and everything I see in development. In fact, people who dream rank very high with me, be they poets, musicians, writers or Frank Gehry. But I am just done listening to this whining moaning diatribe about Erik Buell. It's insulting, demeaning and counterproductive, particularly for a nice person unable to respond. From my wall, a glimpse at my philosophy…….. If you want to be brave And reach for the top of the sky And the farthest point on the horizon Do you know who you'll meet there Great soldiers and seafarers, Artists and dreamers Who need to be close, close to the light They need to be in danger of burning by fire And I, I want to get there I want to be one One who is touched by the sun. Follow the light... Court (is that kinda a rant?  ) | ||
| José_Quiñones |
 Oops I misquoted something earlier. I tried to do it from memory and I didn't quite capture what the writer wanted to say. So here it goes, directly from page 36, by Tim Carrithers, in the "off the record" section of the review of the Aprilia Tuono R.
Again, sorry for misquoting Mr. Carrithers earlier. Carry on...... | ||
| José_Quiñones |
The other limiting factor is piston speed. I'll let others explain it more in depth, but basically an engine with a 3.8 inch stroke like the old "tube framers" will become spare parts at around 7,100 rpm, because the piston speed would be greater than 4,500 ft/min. The race ecms only let you get to 6800 rpm so you won't kill your bike if you miss a shift out on the street. Making the stroke shorter like they did on the XB will allow the engine spin up to 8600 rpm and keep the piston speed safe, but as you mentioned, the valvetrain really can't go much more than 8000 rpm anyway. So while the XB engine can spin faster than the old one, it is actually less stressed at 7500 rpm than our "strokers" are at 6800 rpm. Using a 3.6 inch stroke means that the maximum safe piston speed would be below 4,500 ft/min (barely)at 7500 rpm while at the same time keeping the valvetrain happy. This is the stroke that the Pro Thunder bikes were using last year. They were also using a 3 13/16 bore, so the motors displaced around 1348cc. | ||
| José_Quiñones |
Here is Motorcycle Online's take on the new bike And here is Fischer's WEBSITE! | ||
| Proharley |
Do not attempt to install a X1 crank in a XB Engine. Trust Me !!!! You can't just start swapping parts, if everyone relaxed for a few months you will be very happy with the parts being made for the XB. I will soon have a Buell racing chat room on my www.racingmotorcycles.com website. Thank you > Richard Cronrath | ||
| Kerryx1 |
People who dream rank really high with me. People who persevere to follow that dream and succeed walk on water in my eyes. (I can only do it below 32 degrees) I first met the man in the late eighties at the Javitts Center Motorcycle show. I spent twenty minutes or so shooting the bull about the awe inspiring machine he had with him for the show. In that short period of time, unknowing to Erik, I would have mortgaged my home or even sold it to get involved with him and his project. (Was probably around the deflated ball time, Court) It was obvious that his young company was struggling but it was also obvious that this guy was "following the light". Come hell or high water, he was going to continue and he was going to succeed. I came away from that meeting with a remarkable amount of respect for that subtle, ballsy genius. I carry that respect to this day. I ride the hell out of his products every day. I get the same rush every time I thumb the start switch. Did Erik Buell miss the Boat? I believe his arrival time at the dock was cooly calculated to wave "Bye-Bye" to the boatload of wanna-be sphincter muscles that are on board. The same sphincter muscles that exercise their opinion on what should be done but do nothing in their own little tidbit world but bitch. So have a merry sail to the Far East to buy your super techno-rockets. Ride and enjoy those fine machines. The Man don't need no stinkin' boat. He can walk to the boats destination if he wishes. I'll follow him in my Kayak. Blake didn't create this board to trash Buells or the man himself. The compelling interest in a fantastic motorcycle and the need to share experiences, problems and resolutions gave birth to this board. I guess the phrase "Different in every sense" is beyond the scope of rational thought to those who persist in dessenting. So, please, move on in your own little perfect world. Buell is real and there is a hell of a lot more to come. "Rant mode off" 'Ole Baldie Hey Court! My head doesn't form a teardrop shape at terminal velocity, it sort of conforms to to different gradient pressures at speed. Glad to be back in support of my beloved machines! | ||
| Retiredmxer |
does anyone think the tank and tail section(minus the pipes, can't really see them) resembles an Agusta MV F4? | ||
| Nevco1 |
Why does everyone have their underwear in a bundle over the Fisher prototype? Even though it borrows technology and an engineering team formerly contracted by HD/Buell, it is not positioned against the Firebolt or any other current HD/Buell product and I am confident that the limited production will support a very high price tag. Incidentally, it looks like a european bike, not a rice rocket, and hydraulic valves are something you are probably going to have to live with for a long time considering the engine donor. If you are bent out of shape over this new entry to the market. Whining here won't do you much good. Instead you may want to send a letter to HD/Buell explaining what you would like to see them develop in the future and be prepared to back it up with your check book. You know the old adage, "Money talks and Bullshit walks." Don't mean to get anyone upset about the issue. It just appears that Fischer is doing something y'all wish HD/Buell would have done or will do. Sure Court eluded to new models coming from Buell, but you have to think of the resources they have available to understand what style and power plant the bike will have. Even then, don't be surprised if they catch you off guard. I like the Buells as they are a niche bike and do so many things well. If you read my previous posts, you would know that I am a devotee of the V-Rod engine in a StreetTracker and a StreetFighter. Hell, I would buy both in a heartbeat even though I prefer the concept drawing of the StreetTracker. The concept drawing of the StreetFighter was a little to Harleyesqe for my tastes (read: to much chrome and frills. However, if they ever do produce a bike it will most likely vary from this theme and if enough of you credibly express your concerns, perhaps the next generation will be more to your liking. Oops, forgot to put a request in for a reliable Sport Tourer that soars like the proverbial Eagle and corners like a Sport Bike. If you wanted the potential that a Fischer represents, then you should have bought one of the bikes they are positioning themselves against. At least you would have been on the streets/tracks and possibly happy for a few years before either Fischer's or HD/Buell's new products hit the street. I rest my case. Now why don't we get back to making our Beloved Buells better. | ||
| Court |
Bill: Good news, NO ONE has their underwear in a bundle over the Fisher prototype. My (PERSONAL) objection is the mini-minded way some folks constantly insist on presenting an interesting new product in a small minded fashion like, say for instance "Buell missed the boat ". First of all it's an unkind, baseless statement. It's purpose is not to convey a thought or share an idea, but to incite. Some folks, lacking ability to solve their own difficulties with Buell, seek some sort of cathartic glee by coming here and telling us how miserable we should be. That's my first gripe. My second gripe is why people seem intent on constantly comparing the current Buell sitting in show rooms with anything anyone can draw a sketch of, be it the Fisher, the KTM Twin, Honda NAS, to be introduced "in the future". I assure you my car is slower and handles less nimbly that WHATEVER Porsche is going to show us in 2007. Duuuh? So in answer to your query - Why does everyone have their underwear in a bundle over the Fisher prototype? ANSWER: They don't. Court | ||
| José_Quiñones |
Buell didn't miss the boat, they chose not to get into the "superbike" boat. They chose to build their own "sportfighter" boat and that's the one that they will have to use out in that rough and tumble ocean (the marketplace) along with everybody else. Fischer, if it does make it to the street (and if you look in their webpage it looks like they are a few steps farther from a simple drawing than some people here would lead you to believe) wants to get into that boat with Japan and Europe. More power to them! It would be ironic, however if I tune into the 2004/5 AMA Daytona Superbike race to find an Fischer AMERICAN SUPERBIKE team and rider out there. The marketing from such an event would be PRICELESS to a young upstart motorcycle company trying to get their name out there in the "zeitgeist" to use a current word. Then you might be able to argue that Buell "missed the boat", marketingwise. Because having that Superbike out there on the track and on TV would have done WONDERS for Buell's name recognition and level of interest among the "squids" had they done it first. But we have a lot of things that have to happen before this argument is valid. | ||
| Dynarider |
Posted by Jose......Buell didn't miss the boat, they chose not to get into the "superbike" boat..... Dude, you dont know how true that actually is. 1 guess, who had first crack at the engine that ended up in the V-rod & turned it down? | ||
| José_Quiñones |
The people I would have bought my next bike from and sold BOTH of my bikes to afford it without hesitation? You mean Buell? I'm SHOCKED!  | ||
| Mikej |
Never give up. 'nuff said. | ||
| Kerryx1 |
No "skivvies" in a bunch here. Quit wearing them since the "rot" days in the South Mekong Delta. I love all technical mechanical toys. Love prototypes and appreciate the devotion it takes to develop one into a ridable machine. Regardless of its point of origin, they are all works of art. Erik Buell's creations fit my niche extremely well. The bike has far more capabilities than I will ever use and where it excells is in the real world of street riding. It's not my only mount. Another niche I fit into is with my rigid shovelhead with a 22" over springer. Kickstart and bare essentials machine. Hand assembled in my own "factory" before most on this board traded diapers for a helmet. Handles great as long as it's straight! Where a Buell does figure eights at speed, I have to do "K" turns. It taught me how to lean with rear brakes only skid stops. Three complete coast to coast trips and three quarters of the way up the Alcan Highway with it. I never stepped into the Honda niche, nor the Duc's or superbikes. My personal interest is not there. Mr. Fisher's machine has all the earmarks to fit his niche. American Superbike for 2004? Go for it! But, please, Mr. Fisher, prepare yourself for 2005 when the onslaught of complaints, I told you so's and you shoulda dunnit this way comments flood in. It will be as demeaning to your intelligence and genius as I find some of the non-constructive banter thrown at Mr. Buell. Point of the conversation is to thoroughly enjoy your own niche. Find your ideal machine and personalize it to your liking. This board welcomes wonderful experiences with all brands. Those that bitch the most tend to do the least in my experience. Go forth and explore the limits of getting your skivvies dirty and tell us about it! 'Ole Baldie | ||
| Mikej |
Pics????? I miss my 'knuck with the '40 Ford tube springer. | ||
| Phillyblast |
Okay, I try to stay out of these “Buell missed the boat” and “Buell should do this or that” sessions, but here’s my inflation adjusted $.02 – I’ve been following the progress of Erik Buell’s dream since I saw an ad for the RR1200 years ago, when I was riding a seriously tired Honda 400 twin, with barely enough money as a college student to afford to top off the oil it burned. I love his bikes. I love the Blast so much I can’t bring myself to sell it even though I have a perfectly good S2 to ride. I bought the S2 on impulse – saw it sitting there, had the money for Nallinization of the Blast sitting in the bank account, ‘nuff said. I will buy an XB in a few years, too. Every time Josh posts an Ebay listing for an RS or RSS I whip out the calculator and check the finances, then head into the boss’s office to ask for a raise. See, I can BUY a Buell motorcycle right here, right now, have my choice of dealers within an hours drive. The prototypes and artist’s renderings are cool, but they ain’t HERE. You want to stuff a Rotax engine in the Firebolt frame? You’re welcome to try. You want the Revolution motor in a sportbike/streetfighter configuration? Start here 616714-123112%2C00.html,http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/section/0,,616714-123112,00.html and get back to me when you have a street legal, EPA certified production model sitting on a dealership showroom floor that I can buy for under 10 Grand. Yes, under 10 Grand. That’s a magic price point in the marketplace, and I speculate it’s a number Buell the Co. worked very hard to hit with the XB series. Especially since resale value of my Buells isn’t very good, so I’d have to come up with the majority of that 10G on my own. /resale value rant I just bought a 2K Mustang GT for under 15G. Loaded, low miles, 3 years left on extended warranty, 10 grand under original MSRP in 3 short years. The original owner probably took even more of a beating on the trade. So you think you lost money on your Buell? /end resale value rant Erik didn’t miss the boat on anything – he’s captain of the friggin’ ship, and if some of you would get up from the bar on the Lido deck where you’re crying in your beer and look, you’d see that. The Firebolt chassis is absolutely the wildest thing out there on a production bike, and certain characteristics of the “tractor motor” it houses allow that chassis to be as radical as it is. But some people have the balls to say Erik Buell should have compromised that design to incorporate X or Y engine? WTF!! Pack your stuff, move to East Troy, and BUILD IT. The constant harping on the “lump of a motor” is really starting to annoy me. It’s like Chinese Water Torture, the same old recycled bitching and moaning over and over and over again. Get over it. The motor fits, is proving to be extremely reliable in stock trim, but doesn’t make ground-pounding HP. Well, send it to Nallin, or call Cyclerama. The 3 Grand you’ll pay them is probably what it would have cost you from the factory, or perhaps more, considering the additional cost of certifying the motor. I can always find a way to make more power from a motorcycle; I can’t take a torch to the chassis and lop a couple of inches off the wheelbase. /end rant P.S. sorry it snowed today in the City of Brotherly Love so I had to leave the S2 and the Mustang in the garage and take the train to work and I'm feeling a little cranky. | ||
| Jrh |
Court I don't think anyone who comes to this site purposely intends to take away someone elses enjoyment of motorcycling or their particular bike.(well,ok,one lady who's been popping up on the general discussion board every couple weeks lately seems to try her best) All this seemingly whining and complaining should be read as if the post starts out with "this is what i'd like to see Buell do NEXT" When we can't see the face of the person we're trying to talk to these typed out sentences sometimes seem to be just blurted out and disarticulated.Take my word for it,if you saw me try to type you'd be laughing. | ||
| Kerryx1 |
Mikej, I'll try to find a pic of me riding the rigid in 14" of snow through Donner's Pass. Was wet packing snow so I didn't fall over. A trucker was stopped putting on chains when saw me coming and took the pic. About ten hours later he spotted me at a diner thawing out, got my address and sent me a copy. Only in America! 'Ole Baldie | ||
| Nevco1 |
Gentlemen... Now that was what I call a stimulating round of positive Buell reponses!!! Kudo's to y'all. | ||
| S320002 |
"Why can't Milwaukee build an engine like this?" Does anyone doubt that it could be done if the motivation was there? Last time I looked the lumps from Milwaukee were selling and reselling for more than anything else out there. This dustup over the Fischer design reminds me of the reaction to the "Harley Streetfighter" sketch. What was the name in the corner of that sketch? Seems like that bike was going to be the one that spelled doom for Buell. Erik knows what can happen in the Superbike builder's wars, thats where he started. Does now seem like a good time to jump back in? Neither the AMA nor WSB are sure how things will shake out this year. When I start hearing the words "restrictor plate" I begin to wonder where superbike racing is headed. Greg |
