| Author | Message | ||
     Diablobrian |
I'm glad we didn't lose you just because the job lost it's sparkle slicker, you have always seemed like a "stand-up guy" to me. I may have to drop by your shop on my way out to California this summer (if the trip actually happens...) | ||
| Buell920 |
I predict that in 5 more years we will see Buell stores with no Harleys in them So what else would be in the store to make it a true Buell store? I still see a large hurdle that needs to be overcome before this could ever happen "What other Stuff would be sold". I have had the privilege to follow Buell for the past 14 years, service them, sell parts, on occasion sell them, ride them, and own several but that's just about it. lets fantasize for just a moment,what would be in the store. Buell Motorcycles Buell shirts all four leather jackets in a complete size run all 50+/- add on accessories minor "bling" trinkets Then what? you would need to fill you shelves with aftermarket cloths, parts, "bling", by the time you were done it would look just like a import shop with Buells. so I pose a little different question to all who care to think/answer How can Buell open a shop and make it just as different, and as appealing, as a HD shop while maintaining it's Buell image from afar? I have thought about this for a couple years and listened very quietly with no direct answer. | ||
| Swampy |
How can Buell open a shop and make it just as different, and as appealing, as a HD shop while maintaining it's Buell image from afar? But just what makes a HD shop apealing? Personally I have no desire to go in one and buy a tee shirt or farkle. If I need something for the Sporty, I know I can go to any HD store walk up to the counter ask for what I need and take it home with me(I truley believe that most every HD part ever made is stocked within most every HD store) That is the only reason I go there(or to an any old school non-HD store) So what would make me want to go to a Buell only store? I would buy a tee shirt or other farkle, but being able to buy a Buell part right then and there without having to order it would be an incentive. Like I have said before, in the absence of available parts, I go to the internet. My time is valuable, so going to a store to order what I want, then have to go back to the store to pick it up is wasteful. I only want to go to the store when it is convient to me. So having the ability to order needed parts with out being there, and then maybe picking up the parts when they arrive would be another option. Until then everything is available by internet and for me that is the most convient way to shop. You have the opportunity to "Wow" me over the internet. And for the record, I there are no local Buell stores in my area(define local)I do have a Moto-Guzzi dealer in town (Message edited by swampy on February 11, 2009) | ||
| Buell920 |
I know I can go to any HD store walk up to the counter ask for what I need and take it home with me so parts in stock count very heavily for your trip to a shop? how many parts have you needed to replace on you Buell in the last year? your number is probably not far off from the other 100 Buell riders in a 100 mile radius of you. what I'm getting at is HD is famous for a store that you( if you own a HD, you do ) can go to and see other riders, get parts, accessories made for just your bike and not others, drink a free cup of coffee, then bull s**t about nothing with anyone that walks in about how chromed out your ride is and where you have been or going. Buell can offer most of this but at a very limited base, less OEM parts availability. so what this means(to me) is the first Buell store, if opened in the next five years, would need to have new, unique, un-cookie-cut, parts and clothing, it would need to carry stuff that the shop down the road could not get and mark down ( they will!! as they survive on unit sales not trinkets) and take a loss on to secure showroom traffic. for Buell to have this type of store is almost inconceivable to me at this point. even if they team up with ICON they will probably only slap the name on like Vanson did. BMC has come a very long way in my 14 years but to make the jump to independent is still a little ways off. I look forward to the day I can walk into a store where ""Wouldn't you like to get away? Sometimes you want to go Where everybody knows your name, and they're always glad you came. You wanna be where you can see, our troubles are all the same You wanna be where everybody knows Your name. You wanna go where people know, people are all the same, You wanna go where everybody knows your name. ""  Me dreaming of that day. (Message edited by buell920 on February 11, 2009) | ||
| Jjr1125 |
Just thought I would weigh in about stand alone Buell dealerships. I agree with Court and Davegess that Buell sales are not currently at a point where a stand alone dealership could survive. The five year projection for Buell sales sound reasonable but I am not certain waiting five years is a good idea. The current economy will most likely encourage a number of HD dealers to cut back on capital and unprofitable ventures. This will reduce the number of Buell dealers. I see this in a positive way. It should strengthen the dealers who value their Buell business and stick with it. (Fewer dealer means more of the pie for them.) It also may force Buell to re-evaluate their dealer system. (As progressive and innovative as Buell is; they are probably already looking at it.) Here is some conjecture on my part: * We may see some type of a hybrid dealership that may be fixed in large metro area, but travels throughout their "area" to sell, repair and generally go where the Buellers are. (track days, races, large rides, Harley dealerships and bike shows) * We may see someone become interested in the used Buell market. The used Buells are currently under valued. You can get a lot of bike for a few dollars. Imagine if a dealership starts working to obtain trade-ins and has * The 1125Rs may become more popular and start bringing the Buell name to the podium. This should bring a younger buyer to the Buell table. I don't know what the current average age of a Buell owner is, but I am reasonably certain it is older than other motorcycle brands. The current Buell owners are older and near fantaical in their loyalty to Buell. This is great but an expanded client base is what Buell really needs. * Maybe some of the current, fanatical Buell owners will come together and invest in Buell. They believe in Buell and stock is cheap now. Hum? I am not an economist but I think Buell can really move ahead in the near future. I do know that eventually Buell owners will get tired of dealing with uninformed or unenthused dealers. It it wasn't for Buell's customer service, they would have already lost some good customers. Just my opinion and thinking out loud. | ||
| Panhead_dan |
Our semi local dealership here supports Buell but never ceases to amaze me how little. An example of this is their radio commercial currently in use advertizing HD, Aprilia, Suzuki, Bombardier, Skido. No Buell. At some point, they have had to make a conscious decision to list everything they offer except for Buell. Why? I just don't get it. | ||
| Panhead_dan |
I can only come up with one reason and it is bad news. I just sent an email to a personal friend who is the Buell sales guy there asking his thoughts about this. | ||
| Buell920 |
The current economy will most likely encourage a number of HD dealers to cut back on capital and unprofitable ventures. This will reduce the number of Buell dealers this is correct. I have spoken with a couple SOAR's,DM's and owners that have been looking closley at the option with a slight lean in there footing. I truly believe Buell has given the public to good of a product. there is seldom a need for upgrading to a new model, upgraded parts for handling, performance, style  , and so one. many of the people I come across have been very happy with there bike an feel no need to change it. this could be the down fall/uprising of the future of Buell. so next time you need a filter, oil, tire, what ever think twice about where your dollar may end up. you get the point. }if you want to keep a local Buell shop near you do whats needed to sway there mind | ||
| Panhead_dan |
Guilty as charged. I have been ordering online from a dealership that actually stocks Buell parts (usually) rather than the local dealership who won't keep stock on oil filters and clutch levers.(fact supported by personal experience) I would still hate to see them drop Buell. | ||
| Crusty |
I truly believe Buell has given the public to good of a product. there is seldom a need for upgrading to a new model, upgraded parts for handling, performance, style , and so one. I disagree. I made a few changes to my '06 Uly; painted bag inserts, modified seat, Stebel Nautilus horn, Bazootie, Traction grips, etc; then traded it in on my '08 XT which I am in the process of modifying (Precision Engineering shifter, brake pedal, bar risers, brake line clamp, modified seat, Bazootie, customized seat, Fiamm horn, and more to come). Most Buell owners that I've observed modify their bikes. | ||
| Froggy |
And some modify them a second time because Erik stole their idea and made it a production model... | ||
| Svh |
Lol Froggy. | ||
| Ratbuell |
The used Buells are currently under valued. You can get a lot of bike for a few dollars. That, unfortunately, is mainly market-driven...and we see it right here on BadWeb. Gorgeous bikes like F_Skinner's S2 are sitting because nobody wants to pay what the bike is truly worth. I've even seen posts in other threads to the tune of "5500? Try 3500...". Another factor is, we rarely see a used Buell in our dealership. Most folks who buy them, at least in our market, keep 'em. "Buell" searches on craigslist also turn up very few, if any, in this area. I agree, the used prices should be higher. But if we as the "Buell lovers" can't cough up for them.... There are some very good points listed above in this thread. I'm also watching carefully to see where it goes...but as the owner (LAST owner, most likely) of a pair of tubers, I had to speak out on that particular subject. | ||
| Ourdee |
Froggy, Erik paid you a compliment in actions. Court, Open it up in my neighborhood, and I'll work nights for free wiping dust off the tires to get my foot in the door. | ||
| Jjr1125 |
Ratbuell, I agree with you but I'm not sure it's the Buell lovers who need to cough up for a used Buell. Buell's current market is the middle aged male, an experienced rider with a good job. The majority of these people buy new bikes, not used ones. If you look at some of the profiles of the new 1125 and Uly owners, you see a lot of them owned XBs or tubers before they purchased their new Buell. What needs to be done is find a way to get the used bikes into the hands of younger and first time riders to expand the customer base. The current Buell owner purchased their Buell because they knew motorcycles and recognized it as something special. How many of us rode a Buell out of curosity and ended up buying one at a later date because we fell in love with the handling? New owners don't possess that knowledge and quite frankly don't know what a great handling bike is. They buy bikes because they saw Hayden win a race or their buddy down the street just bought one. Price and availability are real factors. They won't walk in to a Harley dealer because that isn't their crowd. Even if they did, the delaer will most likely try to put them on a sportster. The dealer probably won't have a used Buell in inventory anyway. It is all in targeting the right crowd. The product is superb, so it must be some other reason Buell isn't selling 50,000 bikes a year. Sales service and marketing are going to make the difference. I am convinced that once we get them to ride or own a used Buell, they will be back for a new one later in life. I am curious to see what happens if the 1125 starts winning some races. (Message edited by jjr1125 on February 13, 2009) | ||
| Redbuelljunkie |
I am curious to see what happens if the 1125 starts winning some races. They already have been... The real question is- when is Buell going to produce an 1125 with aesthetics marketable to the majority of prospective buyers. | ||
| Swampy |
I do not think it would be great to have a stand alone Buell store. I like to look at all types of bikes, I don't need to go to a store for a free cup of coffee, I can go to McDonalds for coffee. I don't need to stand around, I need to ride, but since it's winter, I might go to a store and hang out a bit, I do that now, alot, but it's not a HD store it's a multiline Jap store, that does a lot of rebuilding of wrecks, so I see alot of Hds, Sportys, and Jap bikes with the occasional Ducati and Triumph in various stages of repair. Then I wander around the store talking to the owner and salespeeps and mechanics because they know me and it is close by to where I work and I stop in to see my son who works there, so.....I guess what I am trying to say is that shop has been there virtually forever and I have worked very close by it for over 20 years, what has changed is I feel very welcome there, I can walk into the owners office and talk to him errr... her, I can wander out back and babble and touch things, I ride with the folks there, I feel welcome there. Do I go to the HD store to hang out? Do I feel welcome there? That my friends, is the big quandry, how to get people into the store regularly, how to draw them in, make them feel welcome so they know that they can come in anytime and they will have a place to hang out, a place they can call My Place. You ask, but how do we stay in business? The more people that come in, the more they will buy. Period. You already have to go there anyways for parts, but the more you are exposed to a product the more likely you are to buy....whether it be bikes, tee shirts, chrome, or hop up stuff. Look at Wallyworld, you know you can go there and get what ever the heck you want....BUT everytime you go there you are carrying out a bag of shit that you never intended to buy, they know, the more times a customer visits the more money they are likely to spend. Its programming the consumer, come in, walk around, look at all the nice stuff, come back soon, see you again. Now its stuck in their mind, I saw that part there, I want it, I saw that bike there, I'm working towards it. So again, what would make it appealing for me to go there and keep me coming back? | ||
| Panhead_dan |
"what would make it appealing for me to go there and keep me coming back?" I can only speak for myself but that thing would be rides or even fundraisers involving riding and other events that would draw other riders that I might not otherwise meet. This info would have to be unavailable except on a face to face level. If a dealership set that up, I would be interested in stopping in there for a while and checking stuff out. If a Buell dealership did that I would be unable to stay away. I might even call in sick at work now and then for the opportunity. | ||
| Crusty |
So again, what would make it appealing for me to go there and keep me coming back? I just burned $12.00 worth of gas to drive to the dealership that I bought my XT from so that I could pick up a free tire gauge. While I was there, I bought a T-shirt, shot the bull with the sales manager and sat on an XR 1200. Small stuff; but when my daughter is ready to move up from a Blast, they'll get the nod. | ||
| Diablobrian |
For me it's pretty easy, stock common replacement parts for my bike, carry some impulse buying type items that are oriented around my brand : patches, stickers, pins etc and both clothing and riding gear that are dedicated to my riding style/brand on the rack in more than one (xxxs) size like sport leathers and more than one style of full face helmet (a 2 yr old H-D branded hjc) and carrying popular brands of the riding gear that are not always branded merchandise. Not everything has to have Buell or HD on it. Finally, salespeople at the dealership that look at my desires as a customer as more than a nuisance. It's not really an original list, but it is what many Buell customers are looking for. | ||
| Daves |
Hey Court When Vickie gets that dealership give me a call. Can we have it somewhere that the roads are Buell friendly and hunting is good?  Can i have a bow section? | ||
| F_skinner |
salespeople at the dealership that look at my desires as a customer as more than a nuisance. Plus 1. I would add sales, service and parts as well. There are a few great Buell dealerships out there, when I find them I support them. I also believe that the demographic of the Buell buyer is changing and has been changing since the introduction of the XB. This is a great thing for Buell and will show BMC to be more viable than its parent company. | ||
| Buelleaver |
The best result of Harley owning Buell, is Buell got a massive dealership network handed to them . Buell could never afford to establish a network this large with it’s sales numbers. Thanks to Harley you can get buell parts almost anywhere. If not for this network a lot of us probably would not even own a Buell. If buell is 3% of Harley sales then that’s about what there floor space will be. That’s just business. But that’s okay, compared to any possible realistic alternatives. I actually think in the Long run the Harley association will be a good thing. I deal with 2 different Harley shops and I have no problem with either of them. The biggest problem Harley and Buell face together, along with most other American corporations, is that publicly held companies in this country are driven by profits at all cost. This is a common flaw in the American business model that needs to change. American industry has been milked dry and sold out for profit as a whole. The net result for Harley and buell will most likely be a board of directors that will always force them to get by with minimum research and development money , thus never allowing them to reach their maximum potential. But in true American spirit they will do well with what they have got. | ||
| Jjr1125 |
Buelleaver, I agree with you that the Buell-HD relationship was a great thing for Buell in the begining. Buell received an instant network of dealers which allowed them to grow. They could not have survived without the Harley relationship. I believe Buell is a private company with HD owning the majority of the stock. H-D, of course, is publicly traded and driven by the same business model that many of us disdain. Profits and dividends rule the agenda. Harley has been recognized in the last few years as an example company for others to follow. I still believe that HD will stifle Buell's growth if something doesn't change. Your remark about 3% sales = 3% floor space mirrors hits it on the head. It is the typical business mindset. That thinking lacks vision and room for growth. Buell needs to grow. Harley has to see it too. Harley is stifling Buell's growth at this point in time. Harley will either need to change the way it markets and sells Buells or sell their majority and cut it loose. (Message edited by jjr1125 on February 15, 2009) (Message edited by jjr1125 on February 15, 2009) | ||
| Swampy |
Or bring the Guzzi line into the HD stores with Buell, and get the (and this is being sterotypical) donut eating HD sales guys that knows farkles but not the ticker tuned up to know much more about the product they sell. Lets evolve here. I may not be a marketing genuis but they have to understand that more warm bodies through the door equals mores sales. Those bodies may be the teenager that wants to know what a Guzzi is, and then "what is that over there?" | ||
| F_skinner |
I think we all realize the positives the relationship between Buell and HD has produced but it is close to no longer being productive. The same thing happened when AMF bought Harley. HD needed AMF to survive but eventually they out grew AMF. That is a gross example but similar in many respects. Swampy, you need to come visit me. I will show you a dealer that has Guzzis, Aprilias, Buells, HD all in the same building. They just bought the BMW and Ducati dealership also. They were a bad dealership before but now they get to show a wider customer base how bad they are. I think there are interesting times ahead for many dealerships that are not able to adapt to a changing world. Just adding bike brands is not the answer. They will have to understand the product and consumer. That market, like the Buell one, is very different than some of them have ever dealt with. (Message edited by f_skinner on February 15, 2009) | ||
| Court |
>>>>This is a common flaw in the American business model that needs to change. You want a business to be driven my something other than profit? Please start with yours, not mine. There is no logic to support allocating floor space on the % or sales method. >>>I believe Buell is a private company with HD owning the majority of the stock. H-D Buell is not a private company. Buell is 100% owner by Harley-Davidson (HOG) one of the most successful and amazing companies in the history of American business. Harley-Davidson was not some sort of white knight that was worried about helping Buell. Harley-Davidson bought into Buell for what Buell could do for Harley-Davivdson. It's been, even with the rough spots, a wonderfully rewarding arrangement for both parties, Buell and Harley-Davidson. There are several Harley-Davidson products and many improvements that are directly attributable to having access to Buell. The dealer arrangement has never been optimum for Buell. But, based on the fact that there are some amazingly great dealers, the problems are more at the local level than at HD. There are problems, however, in the Buell dealer contract and the way Buell has been forced to do business. There is lots of room for improvement and there are lots of good people working toward that end. I think they need to work smarter and faster. But, some of the common misconceptions (many listed above) are without merit. | ||
| Buelleaver |
My point with the American business model was that the climate is profit at all costs. I realize profit will always be the main goal, but I guess my question is how much of your resources are you will to spend in order to achieve maximum profit. My point may not even pertain to harley/buell relationship, but the repercussions of what is going on in industry will affect them eventually. But I work in the tool and die industry and no where else is the sell out more evident. I don’t want to hi jack this thread any further, but it’s an interesting topic. Perhaps worthy of it’s own thread. | ||
| Diablobrian |
A large number of people would love to see DaveS back in the Buell fold. If you want to know what works in regards to selling Buells he HAS the answers. Even within the current framework success has followed him from dealer to dealer and it's no fluke. I'd love to see what he could do with "the gloves off" (the ability to bring what he wanted into the dealership, without regard for whether or not it's in the H-D parts network) I wish Dave nothing but success in his current venture, but the man can SELL Buells and develop intensely loyal customers from all over the country. This should be explored by Buell as they look to the future of how they will sell the brand. | ||
| Jjr1125 |
} You want a business to be driven my something other than profit? Please start with yours, not mine. Please understand that all businesses must be profit driven. It is the nature of the beast. Sometimes, long term growth and expansion of future profits are sacrificed for short term profits. Harley is an amazing company and many other companies have appropriately studied their success. However, Harley is hurting Buell's future at this point in time. I am certain the remedies will be complicated and difficult, but for Buell something has to change for it to flourish. (Message edited by jjr1125 on February 16, 2009) |
