| Author | Message | ||
     Redscuell |
Following y'all's lead, I've neutralised my solenoid, but I've left mine in place. Very simple with the knowledge gained on this Board: popped the Buell/Deutsch part into the pigtail, disconnected the cable and tied it back, zip-tied the linkages together. No codes, bike is very smooth now, especially in that 4,000 rpm area where things could get a bit choppy. Will say: 2 weeks before this mod, the bike had a 100 front / 100 rear, and now has a 100 front, 105 rear. Coincidence? Does it matter? | ||
| Dhdjr |
Prior to doing the noid removal my afv's were 109.5f/105r. After the removal I went for a quick 20 mile ride & my afv's are 104f/105r now. Runs even better so I can't complain just curious??? | ||
| Jpfive |
My AFV's were the same as yours - 100F 100R before and 100F 105R after the solenoid removal. My guess is that the rear butterfly acts differently in the learning range - enough to cause that slight richening with the AFV. Jack | ||
| Xl1200r |
Take it out! That thing has got to weigh 25 friggin' pounds! | ||
| Zack3g |
it is remarkably heavy for its size. you'll save a bunch of weight by removing it. | ||
| Redscuell |
Guess again, guys. Perform a search on this Board and you'll see the solenoid weights ~2#; a weight-to-power ratio is not affected by such a small increment. My math tells me that it would indeed have to weigh on the order of 25# to make its removal material to a reduction in weight-to-power. So I'll leave mine in place but disconnected. | ||
| Kttemplar |
The benefit of removing the solenoid is not necessarily the weight gain. With the solenoid still connected, it is possible for the butterfly on the rear throttle body, which is able to move independently of the throttle control (how the solenoid limits throttle when active) to vibrate and cause fluctuations in the rear throttle operation. If the rear butterfly is not fixed to the throttle control, it can vibrate while you are riding and can cause jerkiness. There have also been instances where the solenoid prevents the throttle from opening fully, restricting the throttle operation to 80%. By the way, just disconnecting the solenoid will not prevent the CEL from coming on periodically. The only way to get rid of the CEL is by disbling that function on a Race ECM. Just my thoughts. Mike (Message edited by kttemplar on January 15, 2009) (Message edited by kttemplar on January 15, 2009) | ||
| Dirty_john |
Agree with KTTemplar 100% The CEL will be lit and an error code posted if the specific variables that result in solenoid operation are met and the system doesn't get the correct response- from memory there are a few error codes associated with the operation of the solenoid but my diagnostic manual not with me at the time. | ||
| Redscuell |
The previous two posts tell me that y'all didn't actually read my posts: the solenoid is still in position BUT is NO LONGER CONNECTED AT EITHER THE ELECTRONIC OR MECHANICAL ENDS; AND the wiring harness has the Deutsch 'falsie' in place; AND the linkages ARE wired together. Amazing how actual content of my posts could be missed so entirely: the bypass promulgated on this Board worked beautifully on my bike (NO CODES) for which I thank the Board contributors; and there are no real-world benefits to physically removing the solenoid from the frame (WEIGHS ONLY 2 POUNDS). | ||
| Ponti1 |
Redscuell, Out of curiosity, if you've disconnected the solenoid at both ends, why would you choose to leave it in place? Lots of folks would be glad to shed those two pounds, though I do see your point and agree that it would make little difference for a bike to be ridden on the street. | ||
| Buelltech6 |
thats excactly what i did redscuell buell technical services told me to do just that im with you but i dont know how much the unit ways cause i never un bolted it no more full throttle bogging | ||
| Kttemplar |
Redscuell, In my earlier post I was addressing those that were saying there was a weight gain in removing the solenoid and pointing out the actual gains of removing it. I agree with you that there is no significant gain in the weight department in removing the solenoid. Unfortunately, even with all of the things you have done, unless you have a race ECM, you will eventually get a CEL. I have had the solenoid removed for about 7400 miles. I have done all of the things that you have done and I have still gotten a CEL every so often. Probably about 5 times over the last 7400 miles. When you meet the conditions for the solenoid to activate and the ECM senses that nothing has changed after it told the solenoid to activate, the CEL will come on. It will clear after you shut off the bike and start it up again, but will be stored in the log. After 49 "clean" restarts, it will clear from the log. Mike (Message edited by kttemplar on January 16, 2009) | ||
| Redscuell |
"I have done all of the things that you have done and I have still gotten a CEL every so often. Probably about 5 times over the last 7400 miles. When you meet the conditions for the solenoid to activate and the ECM senses that nothing has changed after it told the solenoid to activate, the CEL will come on. It will clear after you shut off the bike and start it up again, but will be stored in the log. After 49 "clean" restarts, it will clear from the log" Ah, that I did NOT know. Thanks, Kttemplar, I'll watch for it (and what's a CEL anyway?). | ||
| Kttemplar |
Check Engine Light/Lamp "CEL" (Message edited by kttemplar on January 17, 2009) | ||
| Usmoto |
I disconnected the mechanical linkage to my solenoid last year in August. I left the elec. conn in place so the bike system would think it's still conn'd and functioning as it should. Never had any kind of error light, (of course) or any problems doing this mod. Ran smoother instantly and seemed to have a little get up and go, (SOMP), dyno. I didn't lock the linkages together as other people have. I didn't see any way that the linkage could move on it's own without a good amount of physical force. I left my solenoid in place in case I sell it in the future and someone wants it or in case some problem arises where the solenoid is needed. | ||
| Jmr1283 |
if u leave it plugged in but mechanically disconnected it just like having the buell eli. plug in. uyoull still get a cel code/ | ||
| Kttemplar |
From what I understand, there are three situations associated with the solenoid which will light the CEL. Fail High - voltage problem Fail Low - Ground detected No Feedback - Solenoid told to Activate, but bike/ECM did not detect operational changes that should have occurred when the solenoid activated The CEL and code P----- does not affect the functioning or operation of the bike or ECM, it just is annoying. With the solenoid still plugged in or with the Buell (terminal end/stop) part that fills the empty plug when the solenoid is unplugged, the only CEL that will trigger is the "No Feedback" condition. It will only happen once in a blue moon and most of the time in traffic on the freeway. It is when you are usually in third gear @ 4500-5000 RPM and go to anywhere near WOT (maybe trying to pass a slower car) and the solenoid should have reduced the throttle. When the bike/ECM detects that nothing happened, the CEL will come on because of the "No Feedback" trigger. At least, that is what seems to be the case. Mike | ||
| Boogiman1981 |
so as far as anyone can tell having the cel on due to noid removal without having the plug replacement in place yet doesnt cause the ecm to jump into an open loop mode like it used to on cars when a fault was detected? basically is business as usual with the light on for that particular error? | ||
| Bigschwerm |
Im doing mine this morning when install my K&N dont have the plug yet but will order it here soon.. | ||
| Hooliagn |
What's the point in limiting the throttle to 80%. Why did Buell do it ? | ||
| Usmoto |
So far I haven't seen a light but maybe it's coming. Has anyone gotten a light with the mechanical part disconnected but the electrical part still connected? I will always admit when I'm wrong or don't know something. So please no flaming or hard feelings here. I just personally don't think the system is so advanced to notice that the solenoid does or doesn't cause any changes. If so, ok, no big deal. It's farther advanced than I thought and that's fine. My take on the solenoid is that Buell had to meet a government standard for noise and or emissions and the solenoid was one of the low tech add ons to accomplish that. I'm not the type to make changes to just make changes. I only do mods if I think it will be beneficial. I read up a lot on this forum before doing the de-noid mod. I would of reconnected it if it made no change at all. For instance, I've been reading the posts on the inner airbox removal for more power. So far what I've learned is that it will give you only about 3 extra ponies and a little more noise. 3 horsepower is not worth the effort in my book. Now 30 horsepower and I'm there. (Message edited by usmoto on February 01, 2009) | ||
| Usmoto |
Got a question about AFV's. Basically, what are they and why do they matter? Is this something I need to keep up with and do something about? I've seen posts on AFV's but I must've missed the educational posts on them so I apologize for that. Thanks in advance for info. USA Baby!! | ||
| Hooliagn |
Soooooo if the noid limits the WOT to 80% wouldn't that ultimately effect the numbers generated from a dyno run ? | ||
| Zac4mac |
Solenoid only actuates in a narrow rpm band around 5k in 3rd gear only. Zero effect on a dyno. Butterfly flutter might, hence the "need" to tie the throttle cams together.  | ||
| P_squared |
Not EVERYONE recorded a TPS of 80 w/ the noid attached. ENOUGH folks did that it has become 'folk lore' that it is that way for ALL bikes. If the noid is mechanically disconnected but still plugged in, you should only get the CEL for the P--- code. It will clear after you shut the bike off & restart. The parameters above will cause it (~4500 rpm in 3rd gear & then going straight to WOT). AFVs - Do a search here on this board. They had their very own thread in the not so distant past. A lot more info in there than I want to type here. | ||
| Jmr1283 |
P_squared-  i got the same code once i had the plug inplace |
