| Author | Message | ||
     1_mike |
Now that I've got some miles on this thing (new CR), I've decided to fix ONE (more to follow!) of the things that make this thing run so D@mn hot. I'm going hang a 2" or 2-1/2" core muffler...high, out by the side of the tail.....yes, just like the offshore bikes. That ought to help the oil last longer, stay MUCH cooler...and in turn, help the coolant stay....a little cooler. Ever heard of "coking"? Constant heat + oil = coking. That black, rock hard stuff that forms, normally in some container, gets continuously, overly hot..... Just trying to figure out ways to help make this thing live to a ripe old age...somewhere near 100,000 miles. Mike | ||
| Hootowl |
I doubt very much that the heat being radiated by the muffler is adding a significant amount of heat to the engine cases. Are there even cooling passages in the case? Most of the water is in the jugs and heads. | ||
| No_rice |
hey, do whatever you want. its your bike... poor thing... i'll just try and keep my mouth shut  i'll will atleast be interested to see what it looks like. problem is, the pic in my head of it looks even worse then the D&D though | ||
| D_adams |
An undertail pipe similar to a Ducati wouldn't be a bad thing, just getting it routed there is the problem. | ||
| Ccryder |
 And Although I did add a ceramic coated heat shield from Al. That "seems" to help. Anything more would be well ............  . | ||
| Redbuelljunkie |
Mock up an undertail exhaust- that will relocate the heat from under the engine... to under you. Of course, you may end up with a "coke" problem...  | ||
| Hooliagn |
I'm not sure what that means but i'm LMAO | ||
| Buellborn |
Mike don't stop thinking just because of the nay-sayers. The factory obviously designed their pipe to be covered as apparent in its design and finish. The fact that its cover was removed from production due to heat indicates that there is fact an issue down there. Check the red hot header threads. If you come up with a winning solution all will have an option and benefit. | ||
| Xl1200r |
There is oil moving all around the head where temps are much higher. I would bet that moving the muffler would cause a negligble effect on the oil temp. | ||
| No_rice |
The factory obviously designed their pipe to be covered as apparent in its design and finish. The fact that its cover was removed from production due to heat indicates that there is fact an issue down there hmm, i never even saw one of the prototypes with this muffler cover you are talking about, and i spent 2 days on the pre production ones.? | ||
| Ccryder |
A little something that Erik has mentioned a few times: Buell® Motorcycles are born from the belief that every innovation must be focused on doing what’s right for the rider. This philosophy has led to the creation of the Trilogy of Tech®. It’s our road map. Three design principles that guide our every move: Mass Centralization, Low Unsprung Weight and Chassis Rigidity. In fact, there isn’t a single component that isn’t evaluated over and over again with these principles in mind, ensuring the best handling motorcycle possible. Tying them all together is another fundamental practice known as Buell Multifunctional Design™. It’s the idea that one part can be designed to serve more than one purpose to further improve the riding experience. MASS CENTRALIZATION We are relentless in our desire to not only move as much of the bike’s mass as close to its center of gravity as possible, but also to optimize the location of the cg. This minimizes its rotational inertia in its pitch, roll and yaw axes, making it feel light and nimble, allowing a rider to more easily flick in and out of corners. If you think you are having heat issues with this bike, come on over and I'll let you ride my ST1300 on a 90+deg day (you will have to wait a few days since tomorrow is supposed to be 2deg F in the morning). I ride the 1125r when the temps get up there since it is WAY cooler than the ST1300. Give us some background on your location, miles etc so we can try and understand where you are coming from. I've never been one to curtail the creative thought process but, I also don't want to "re-invent the wheel" if I don't have to. Time2Work Neil S. | ||
| 1_mike |
Background ? I live in Southern California. A motorcycle is my main means of transportation. I drive on 4 different freeways to get to work (42 miles one way)...and the same four to get home. On nice warm summer days, 100 degrees ambient temp. is not at all uncommon, (yesterday it got to a whopping 82 degrees on my drive home...the CT got to 206 degrees while splitting lanes). Even my Suzuki TL1000R never ran that hot, and it wasn't as much fun to drive as the Buell is.!! My Kawasaki's(3), Yamahas(4), Suzuki(1)...even if I screwed up on the tuning, never ran like this...including the wonderful timing and fuel maps. As for Hoot - Most of the car manufacturers install a heat shield around their mufflers...funny how that works! Sorry, I'm not living up to some standard of some Buell owners, but being an engineer for a living gives me some amount of understanding on things like thermodynamics, air flow, loads and such. This and the original post wasn't ment to get people riled up...it was to say...there many ways of doing the same thing. And my original heating of the oil statement stands to you non-belivers. One more thing. It shows just how well some read. I never said..."under the tail". I believe my statement was, "out by the [side] of the tail"! I have to also say thanks to those that have read this with an open mind. I do in general, like the bike. It just needs help where Harley/Buell don't seem to get it. Just produce a properly drivable motorcycle. Mike | ||
| New12r |
FOR GODS SAKE THERE IS A COMBUSTION ENGINE RUNNING AT 220 DEG F UNDER YOUR DAMN LEGS!!! The heat generated by your muffler is negligible and very doubtfully is affecting your oil temps enough to "coke" them. Also moving the muffler will not affect your coolant temps, ever heard the fans come on? Do you know what a thermostat is? Those two items control the temp of the coolant very closely and moving the muffler is not going to change the temp the thermostat opens or the temps that the fans come on. In the end do whatever makes you feel better, my bikes stay stock for a reason, they last longer that way. | ||
| Hootowl |
The heat shield surrounding the muffler on a car protects the car's interior from heat and noise. Does a 200+ degree engine need to be protected from radiant exhaust heat? That was a rhetorical question. | ||
| Hootowl |
As for your assertion that the fit and finish of the muffler must mean that it was originally designed with a cover in mind, have you seen a tuber or XB exhaust? Same mild steel construction, same less than perfect welds. I suspect that Buell doesn't really care how they look because one of the first mods people make is to replace the stock exhaust. | ||
| Court |
Mike: Before you knock yourself out take a bit of time and bone up on the thermal characteristics of the oil you are using. Times are good and the oils that we are using are incredible. I doubt (there are engineers, like yourself, here who can help us) that you can produce enough heat with that engine to diminish the properties of the oil. | ||
| Funktron |
You must be the one "coking"....... I'm about to put the engineer smackdown on your ass. I too am an engineer......and from the stuff coming out of your mouth.....I'm surprised you are employed. (you mentioned engineer....but is that your degree or your practice?) You must be one of those smart-ass internet thugs with all the backtalking and "I know it all because I got a degree" attitude. And as for your bike history......you been breaking them by "coking" too much or what? I know people who have ridden for decades and not been through the now 9th bike you have. | ||
| Badlionsfan |
If the under-slung muffler is a bad thing, better tell the Japanese companies and KTM, cuz they're all heading in that direction. I think you're gonna be very disappointed when the temp doesn't drop more than 2 degrees. Not to mention it's gonna look terrible and you're gonna lose lean angle. At the end of the day it's your bike, your time and your money so hack away. Be sure to post pics and results. There's a chance you could revolutionize the sport motorcycle world, by going back 20 years. (Message edited by badlionsfan on January 14, 2009) (Message edited by badlionsfan on January 14, 2009) | ||
| M1combat |
Yeah... work on the thermostat side. Moving the muffler will just hurt the handling and looks of the bike. It'll move the balance to the rear. That's not the right direction. All that said... I'm pretty sure Buell knows what temperature the bike runs at and has tuned it accordingly. I don't mean just the fuel, but the rad size, thermostat, engine tuning, cooling, fan logic, etc... | ||
| M1combat |
I think adding a race type oil cooler would do more btw. I mean, I see your point in trying to make the thing run cooler... I just think that moving the muffler is a lot of wasted energy in fabrication and actually has some fairly significant drawbacks with regards to handling. I think there's a better way. | ||
| Court |
Moving the muffler will not change the temperature . . . don't believe me . . ask Tüv.  | ||
| Doerman |
Mike... I commute pretty much the same routes you do 57 --> Via Verde --> 10 ---> 605 --> 105 --> 110 (50 miles total) When I first got mine, the coolant temp was as high as 218 (once) - ambient was 105. After it was broken in and applying the re-flashes, the temps rarely touch 200. Right now, although we're having a heat wave (86 today) Mine reads around 190 in slow lane splitting in the afternoon. If yours, an 09 CR, is broken in (>1,000M) and it hits 209 in January, I'd have a chat with the dealer as a first option before going a modification route. Just my 02 | ||
| Xl1200r |
190 is pretty good. I haven't done much hot-weather riding with mine yet, but I do that my car, with a radiator at least twice the area as my 1125, pulling 10 times the weight with only 60 more hp, runs no higher than 190, EVER, despite 90 degree plus ambient temps, stop and go traffic and the a/c cranked. To be honest, so far, my 1125 feels to run cooler than either Sportster or my XB that I've owned previously. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Engineers: Fixin' shit that ain't broke since 10,000 B.C. | ||
| Dentguy |
I hope this doesn't get to the....I'm an engineer and I know more than you level. Oops we already have. Please check your ego at the door. (Message edited by dentguy on January 14, 2009) | ||
| Hootowl |
The air cooled engines do run hotter...by a pretty good margin, and by design. | ||
| Bob_thompson |
Guys, ever give a thought that almost all of the heat you "sense" or "feel" is generated from thin single wall SS tubing exhaust head pipes and not from the muffler. Well documented in the "look at my headers glow" posts. AND most of the time it is in testing at a stand still with no air flow to carry away generated heat. When I do my testing/tuning here in the garage it is always with a large floor fan sucking heat away from the headers. And the coolant temperature usually remains fairly constant albeit slightly higher but never to an unsafe point. Please do not compare any of this with actual felt temperatures while riding at a tolerable pace. | ||
| Buellborn |
don't believe me . . ask Tüv. Who dat? | ||
| Redscuell |
"If you think you are having heat issues with this bike,": Personally I don't run with my CT indicating, so I don't know what they are during my long commute. But I will say I'm unaware of ANY heat issues with the exhaust, coolant or frame on my 09, even on the hottest days. For reference, my commute starts and ends with 10 minutes of 60-70 kph at each end, with 40 minutes of 100 kph in between, 5 days a week, 900 km weekly. A CT of 200F+ is nothing to worry about from an engine life standpoint, as the pressure of the rad cap plus the use of antifreeze raises the boiling point well beyond 212F. And CT doesn't say much about oil temp anyway. We don't have oil temp readouts on the 1125, do we? I've run my infrared heat sensor (while the engine's idling after a run) over every part of the bike, and the exterior of the thin-wall muffler (remember the pics that have been posted of what it looks like inside?) is not nearly as hot as the cylinder heads, for example. As for a conventional muffler config, which I myself was advocating when I was new to the 1125, it's been pointed out elsewhere in this Board that the 1125's computer looks for the reflected waves within the factory muffler; so it's apparently not so simple. Live in peace, my friends, it's just a motorbike. | ||
| Rainman1ne |
after i got the D&D the temp didnt change one bit hotter or cooler. Thats removing almost all exhaust from under the bike and having an exit away from the motor. |
