| Author | Message | ||
     Buellisticx1 |
Hi everyone, from early the past summer I'm having idle issues and I have done several things but it haven't cures. I read many many posts about idle issues and I still have not found the solution to my problem, I'm a bit confused. It started happening after the bike warms up only. When the engine is fully warmed up The RPM hanging at 2k before dropping to 1050. Currently every time I start the bike the idle oscillates up and down to 1k. Bounces around 7-800 sometimes as low as 600 but dies soon. This is getting progressively worse, now it's impossible to keep the bike running on cold starts without keeping on some throttle. I did a little research. I found an archive on BadWeb describing almost identical symptoms He said replacing the ETS solved his problem but I replaced the ETS and the problem is still there. I have done several TPS reset, I replaced intake gaskets, injectors o-ring, O2 sensor, IAT sensor, and ET sensor both idling problems are still there. I Have sprayed contact cleaner several times on throttle body and intake manifold looking for vacuum leaks,I have found nothing, I Have checked all sensor wires, the 02 work well because I have seen it in the VDSTS and ECMSPY, the AFV is 100 after ride in closed loop learn mode. May be the CPS, TPS or a bad compression the culprit?, or could anything else be causing this problem?. The last month I took a compression test and the readings were 120 psi front cylinder and 150 psi the rear cylinder,the service manual says the readings don't must be more than 10 psi variance between cylinders. Could this be the main problem?... I'm a bit confused. Someone has had this problem? What´s going on?. Can anyone give me some insight on this?. I'm sure there are plenty on here with very good knowledge of this repair who would be willing to help me. Sorry about the long post. ANY IDEAS WILL BE GREATLY APPRECIATED.... | ||
| Jos51700 |
First things first, When was the last time a fuel filter was installed, and what is the AFV? | ||
| Preybird1 |
Wow i did a lot of the same repairing trouble shooting and shot gunning the bike with parts and it turned out to be the ecm! But i have a lot of spare parts that are know to work and i just swapped em over till i got the problem fixed, I did what you did and still nothing until the ecm was changed out. This may not be your problem but its an idea....Do you have any problems at full throttle. I second the afv and filter check Hey jos51700 are you in Colorado? | ||
| Buellisticx1 |
Thanks for your input. Replaced the fuel filter on about 30.000 miles, now the bike has 44.000 miles on it. Tomorrow I'll take the bike for a ride in closed loop learn mode and I will see the new AFV read and I'll let you know. Preybird1, I haven't any problems at full throttle. I'm also thinking that may be a bad Race ECM the culprit, but what is weird is that it also happens in a Stock ECM turned into to race with the ECMSPY software and there are no trouble codes with regards ECM failure(52,53,54,55). I'm racking my brain trying to figure out what was causing the problem. It's puzzling,I'm running out of ideas. Sorry for my english,I´m no native speaker. (Message edited by buellisticx1 on November 06, 2008) | ||
| Scott_in_nh |
use ECMSPY to check the cylinder head temperature. If the ecm thinks the engine is cold it will continue to put extra fuel in. | ||
| Bud |
you have ecm spy, try to log it , ( you need the metalogviewer program ) mark the tps voltage signal to log, and twist the throttle a little and see if goes up and stays stable, drop to idle again and look if every time the voltage is the same, | ||
| Jos51700 |
Hey jos51700 are you in Colorado? Born in Boulder, raised in Longmont/Lyons. Family homesteaded outside of Genoa. Go back whenever possible. Thought about going back for good, since the dealers in Boulder seemed cool. But no, I'm in Springfield, MO. | ||
| Jos51700 |
Also check out Genoa Motorsports Ranch. I doubt they'll build it, but it would be cool! | ||
| Jos51700 |
The hanging at 2000 RPM is usually indicative of a lean condition. That difference in compression might be related, might not be, depending on cause. | ||
| Buellisticx1 |
I going to check all you say. I'll see what happens. I'll let you know Thanks for listening and suggesting folks!. | ||
| Buellisticx1 |
This morning I've been checking again the idle issues trying to figure out what is causing the problem. These are the things I've done: After take the bike for a ride in learning mode (3500 RPM for 10-15 minutes) and everything seemed to run fine. AFV 100. The engine pulls strong from idle to red line, Not stumbles or hesitations, running VERY strong and smoother. The problem only happens at idle in hot and cold. Checked again for an intake leak. I sprayed again WD-40 around in the intake during idle to make sure I don't have a leak. Despite spraying them with WD-40 multiple times from every angle I couldn't hear any significant change in idle. If there is an intake leak, I'm unable to find it. I get nothing,. All components (sensors, injectors, fuel Pump etc) checked out, and everything work fine. no error messages, nothing. I have done several TPS reset too. I thought the idle issue may be a tps issue, but I noticed that when twist the throttle up it stays stable and every time drop to idle again the voltage is the same, the TPS%,TPSº and TPS volts stay stable, no jump up and down, with no bounce, but while the motor is running at idle oscillates up and down to 1k and suddenly the bike dies, stalling. Does that make sense?. I'm starting to think might be race ECM or that difference in compression might be the culprits, either, so it also happens to another Stock ECM turned into to race with the ECMSPY, but what curious is that none ECM show trouble codes (52,53,54,55). Can anyone give me some insight on this?. I'm running out of ideas. I know is hard to diagnose a bike over the internet. Thanks in advance to any who care to comment on this. | ||
| Preybird1 |
My ecm didn't trouble code either, But it was shorted out, I could smell it, Try and smell the ecm lol. It sounds funny but you never know, Mine burned out on the o2 pick up pins on the ecm and it was intermittent it come and go, So i did what you did until ecm fixed it. Did you do the throttle body seals or just the intake seals? I did em both just to be sure. The compression may be it. Thats a little to high 120 should be normal your talking 30 more psi. Try a different ecm and see if its that. You could always check the injectors. One of mine plugged up and i changed them both, But they can be taken apart there is a little 10 micron screen inside the injector itself well thats all i got hope it helps. Go talk with jos51700 or firemanjim jos is a buell tech and hd master tech. | ||
| Bud |
X1 inj. can be bitch how many volts is it showing on ecm spy during idle ? it that's low ( i mean below 11 volts ) and compare it with a dvm on the battery terminals , if charging voltage on the battery are good ( above 13 volts with a little throttle ) check the connections on the startermotor , a lot off x1's have problems with corrosion there , clean the terminals and try again. check your ground leads under the tank, look if there ok.. some off those terminals are looking ok, but actually they can be broken other thing you can do, check the voltage signal of the O2 sensor , bike need to be warm for the 02 to work. if it goes up and down , try to check for leaks while monitoring the voltage reading from the o2 if the changes are big, change the gaskets. | ||
| Buellisticx1 |
Preybird1- I replaced both throttle body and intake seals five months or so ago. Bud- During idle ECMSPY show 12.40 volts and with a dvm on the battery terminals showing 12.85 volts. I also check the voltage signal of the O2 sensor after the bike warm and it's working fine, it goes up and down. AFV is 100. I will check out the things that you says (connections on the startermotor,ground leads under the tank) for broken,loosen, chafing cuts or oxidation with corrosion there, just to be sure. I will let you know. Thank you one and all for all your help,I really appreciate the info. | ||
| Numb_nutz |
One thing you may want to try is a volt drop from the ground on the battery to the all the ground points on the frame. You should see less than a tenth of a volt drop. In the automotive world this will cause all sorts of running problems. I also have a 1999 that had a similar problem like yours from new. The dealer could never fix it. I tried the race ecm, had it re-maped, stock ecm no difference. This year i put a carb on and no more troubles. | ||
| Buellisticx1 |
Well, after checked and clean the startermotor terminals, ground leads under the tank and all ground terminals points on the frame, all there was ok and the idle problem were still there. I did check the vacuum port under TB and verified that the rubber cap wasn't there. I don’t understand, because I thought it wasn't on the Cali models Evap,anyway I pluged it and the idling problems were still there. Do you think I must to plug the nipple under the throttle body (vacuum port)?.... Do you think that not rubber plug on the Cali Evap fitting is a likely big contributor to driveability problem in addition to the leaky intake seals?... OK - Good news I tested the intake seals again, this time using Contact cleaner. I sprayed at them until it was dripping and burning off the headers in a very fine mist around in the intake and this time, unlike when I used WD-40, I once and for all got a significant change in the idle, with noticeable increase in rpm's during idle (around 300 RPM) and suddenly the bike died, sputtering and coughing out the throttle body on air-box, then it died, stalling. Using Contact Cleaner I was able to find it where as I just got a lot of smoke and stink using WD-40. Yeah I guess that could be the problem!. I just replaced intake seals a few months ago, Is there a special procedure on how to install seals?...,Or may be the factory seal design the culprit?.. I think was using the crappy factory seals. Anyone know if is there another seals than the factory?..} but what is really weird, taking a intake leak after ride in learning mode my AFV is 100, how can be?.... Once again thanks for the info. (Message edited by buellisticx1 on November 08, 2008) | ||
| Bud |
but what is really weird, taking a intake leak after ride in learning mode my AFV is 100, how can be?.... i guess it never learned, after the last reset, it can take a long time, with x1's ( even for the O2 sensor to get working it takes a long time ) ps.. go for the james blue seals | ||
| Buellisticx1 |
Hey Martin, I see that you have much knowledge about X1, many thanks for all info, I appreciate it very much!. Had you or have one?.... After to do a TPS and AFV reset I took the bike for a long ride in closed loop learn mode (about 15 minutes and 10 Km), before the AFV value was 98.9 and after ride in learning mode it was 100, it taken straight from both ECMSPY and VDSTS, that's why I said that I do not understand, ummm that's really really weird. One other else question. Do you think I must to plug the nipple under the throttle body (vacuum port)?... Is this normal or should plug it?  | ||
| Jstfrfun |
You can't lose by capping it off, vacuum leaks are never good! | ||
| Buellisticx1 |
Always I have running with no rubber cap and no problems so far, why? I don't know, but this hasn't been the main idle issue. Thanks. (Message edited by buellisticx1 on November 09, 2008) | ||
| Bud |
i have one. a bid off a on going customizing project ( never ready and so little time at the moment ) thinker with a lot off theme. mostly they come in with problems.. strange that your afv goes back to a 100, i never have seen that, normaly they depending on airfilter / exhaust / ecm combo go below the 100 btw unfiltered air is never good.. it a little hole, but it sucks hard with a little throttle, | ||
| Buellisticx1 |
i{mostly they come in with problems..} :Agree, since I have it(2003 year) it has given me lots of problems, but despite everything I'm love it. strange that your afv goes back to a 100, i never have seen that, normaly they depending on airfilter / exhaust / ecm combo go below the 100.: Yes, now I'm thinking it could be it owing by not never have plugged the vacumm port. After I plug it, I'll try take a new AFV read and I will see how it goes. I'll let you know. Regards. (Message edited by buellisticx1 on November 10, 2008) | ||
| Preybird1 |
That nipple is for California models only emission controlled bikes, They say to plug it but i never have and have no issues with it. But capping it would be the wise thing. I have been looking for a good cap but haven't looked really hard. | ||
| Buellisticx1 |
Hi everyone! finally found time to check out the AFV again, but this time with cap on the nipple under the throttle body (vacuum port) and after ride in learning mode around 10 Km (10/15 minutes) the AFV was 95, so I don't liked, so I removed it again and I went for a ride in closed loop for a long time again and when I go back home hooked the bike to ECMSPY and this time the AFV reading was 100. My question; What is better with or without a cap?......... What do you think about this?.......... Always I gone with no cap and no problems so far. Currently I’m running with the usual stuff/mods(Buell Race ECM, C.F. Oval Air Cleaner (from american sport bike) and V&H SS2R muffler) . Any hint or tips would be gratefully appreciated!. (Message edited by buellisticx1 on November 18, 2008) | ||
| Buellisticx1 |
I forgot the pic wit cap  | ||
| Preybird1 |
Well im not sure i never had a cap so i dont care, bike runs good for me. Ask jos51700 he would know! Or ask firemanjim or buellistic! | ||
| Bud |
un-filtered air comes in the engine, in my opinion never a good idea, for a road bike.. | ||
| Bad_karma |
Jose Check the screws that hold the butterfly to the shaft, I had mine come loose and out. Also check/clean the Air Inlet Temperature sensor. Joe | ||
| Buellisticx1 |
Joe a good idea, I never would have thought that, so I'll check it when I have a free moment and I will let you know. Thanks for all your help!!! | ||
| Buellisticx1 |
The RPM hanging at 2k before dropping to 1050 when the engine is fully warms up was caused by leaking intake gaskets. Replaced them by the james blue seals and they works very fine, but I have not solved The other idling issue in hot; When the engine is fully warmed up she wants to idle really low Bounces around 6-700 sometimes as low as 500 then the bike stalls, dies soon, it also has small backfires through exhaust, but always all happens at idle and when the engine is fully warmed up (Always from 210 degrees centigrades and on). After I ride again for maybe 10 minutes the idle goes back to normal(1050), I know those type of problems are often the most difficult to find, I tried several things and no luck so far, it's puzzling. I'm starting to think might to be a CPS issue when hot. One other thing else, I have done several compression test for quite a while (eight months) and the readings were entirely different (120 psi front cylinder and 150 psi the rear cylinder, later 127 psi front and 145 psi rear cylinder, later 148 psi front and 145 rear and so on, does that make sense?, it's not normal or yes, I don't know, Might to be this the main problem?....., Could anything else be causing this problem?. Any hints or tips would be gratefully appreciated! (Message edited by buellisticx1 on January 04, 2009) | ||
| Buellistic |
ie: intake seals !!! A lot of people still do not know this ... The only intake seals to use are SEAL,intake manifold PN 26995-86B ... The SEAL RING, carburetor can go bad also ... |
