| Author | Message | ||
     Timi |
E-ones excited about the CR and all that. That's good! But.... The R and CR do have a few ponies left in them. I called "Power comander" and they told me Buell will NOT give them a bike to develop a product on. Why? EPA, GOVT, Green peace, I don't understand this. Mabie the factory wants to develop their own. They do for the big twins, (power comander, none the less, wink-wink) mabie this is a liceining agreement with "Rotax"????? Are their any ideas? (disclaimer: my spelling sux) | ||
| Ccryder |
Some systems can't be improved by "Power Commanders" ie: ST1300. Some systems cannot justify the development $'s. We were lucky that on the FI tubers Buell had a race ecm available. We were fortunate that someone was able to crack the code on the XB ECMs. Maybe someone will be able to do it for the 1125 ECM. The EPA climate is much different these days and that is why Buell requires you to have a race license to buy parts that can alter the emissions. It is beyond just promising that you will use it for "off road" only. Someone will come up with some software to modify the maps. You must use caution when making changes or, you can cause damage to your engine. Time2Rest Neil S. | ||
| Badlionsfan |
Someone will come up with some software to modify the maps. Ummm, you mean like our friend XB9 already has? | ||
| Ridenusa4l |
Its probably becasue buell already has the PROGRAMMABLE race ECM and dont want anybody drinkin their koolaid, so i wonder if one of us could offer up a test bike???... Where is the powercommander headquarters at??.. Jake | ||
| Xbswede |
Not sure why you would want power commander which is a piggyback system, when we already have a system available to us that can change both fuel and spark tables right in our existing ECM for the fraction of the cost. | ||
| Zac4mac |
If you have a windoze laptop, get the cable and the software. It plugs right into the port the DT II uses. I have dropped my timing to 5.5 DBTDC at idle. VERY easy to do. I hate Windoze. Z | ||
| Teach |
XB9 has it all. PM him for more details. | ||
| Timi |
Ok well enough. But there is a question that really hasent been answered yet. (Power comander company is in Las Vegas NV. Jake.) Piggy back or not, there has to be a way to "play" without afecting the warr. Windoz per Z is the way to go, but without some ega info, then do we really "know" if any changes are effective or not. Also, the "seat of the pants" method is really accurate or not. I've tuned LOTS of drag racing engines in my day, and a few were fi. But the days of carbs are gone and turning a distributer cap is to. So this leaves it ALL to computers. Tell me ANY of these 1125R's/CR,s that are purely stock, and I will laugh and point directly to the showroom. Harley has made Billions on accesories for ALL of their bikes, let alone the Buell brand! Is this such a serious matter that it just sits at idle? I'd gladly donate my bike for development if it could be repaired afterwards!!!! Is the epa really the bottle neck? Or is the #of production? I'm just wanting to wring out all that is there...... | ||
| Badlionsfan |
Remus does also make the plug and play powerizer. I may purchase that along with the Remus exhaust this spring and put it on Teach's dyno and see what happens. | ||
| Ridenusa4l |
Zac, where can u get that cable??? THanx Jake | ||
| Krassh |
Lots of places but if you want one from a sponsor Al Lighton at American Sport Bike can help you out. http://www.americansportbike.com/shoponline/ccp0-p rodshow/A9317.html | ||
| Xbswede |
"Windoz per Z is the way to go, but without some ega info, then do we really "know" if any changes are effective or not." Windows based software or a PCIII system would both need Dyno time to be effective. I don't see how one is easier to set performance gains with. All bikes are not equal even in stock form. So yes you may get a base map with one system over another but its just a base map configured to a stock bike. It would still need to be tuned to your specific bike and mods. If it was an IL4 then you would get a dozen base maps to play with for various exhausts and filter combination's but they are still just base maps. To Wring everything out of the motor you have to take the time to Dyno tune the beast and just moving fuel percentages up or down on a plug and play is not going to do it. I do have a PCIII (on my FZ1) and its OK. It does what its designed to do and if I want to move my timing tables I can invest another $300 for second unit that takes up even more mounting space. But its no wheres near the levels of SERT, Direct link, [redacted], ECM SPY, etc. (Message edited by Blake on March 19, 2009) | ||
| Slypiranna |
+1 Xbswede  Even WITH an exhaust gas analyzer or wideband, you still need to see the torque curves/back to back, in order to verify changes. (Message edited by slypiranna on December 28, 2008) | ||
| Bcrawf68 |
As a non-tuner type, I would be happy purchasing a new map for my stocker that would offer a decent performance gain. How about it guys? | ||
| Ridenusa4l |
Im down for the same thing...becasue i dont wanna screw up my bike lol... | ||
| Timi |
Aaaahh Now were opening a can of worms. Thanks guys!!! I'm happy to say (type) this... This was the responice I was looking for. Ok plug and play is just a "boost" in general. Spy stuff is for the die hard racer who spends thousands on every last pony and stuff. The middle guy (me) the guy who doesn't want to spend e-thing on my bike, but, who wants to "Own the streets" is basicly has two options. Spy, or stock, Warr, or not, "almost" performance, or mabie 160hp? Either way, I love this bike and I'm gonna ride the pee out of it, so here I am.... | ||
| Stormy |
Also remember that Power Commander still has a bad taste from the first fi systems on the X1 and S3. People attempting to tune did not understand the Adaptive Fuel Value and how it could change the tuning they just did. Power Commander got a lot of calls about how their product did not work until they finally released a version that had the AFV affected cells blanked out so tuners couldn't get it wrong, but this eliminated the flexibility some builders needed to get a wild package tuned and they still complained to PC. Eventually PC allowed the X1/S3 supply to run out and never offered a setup for the XB even though the tuber PC would work just fine. They are not in a hurry to mess with our AFV again. | ||
| Slypiranna |
I would have given a thousand dollars 11 months ago to have started with the knowledge just posted by you Stormy! The AFV is a learning curve to any mechanic/tuner, all within its own! | ||
| Teach |
The technology is already here to modify maps. I have had it done to my bike, as well as others. It works! pm XB9 | ||
| Buelldyno_guy |
If the goal is to simply modify the Map run the bike and check results on a Dyno, then yes there are ways to do that. Now if you have a "Data Acquisition Dyno" with two live AFRs as well as a five gas and you can monitor AFV at the same time ECM spy works Very Well on early 08 and back FI Buell's. This is what we do to develop custom Maps for track/street bikes. But at this point I still do not see anyway I can see the real live data while tuning by trying to revise and then up-load Hex-data files using XB9's program. At 10 hrs, Dyno time it's just too expensive to try and develop a good map with any system that won't tune live. I am not too pleased with going back to Direct Link and their "Key" but if they will get us what we need and will be around for a while, they will have to be considered. Terry JT&S Performance} | ||
| Bob_thompson |
How about some of you UJM or other brand riders who have used a Dynojet plug and play add on module. Were you pleased with a performance gain and what if any troubles were you experiencing? I've never used one and am ignorant as to their usefulness. | ||
| Buelldyno_guy |
Power Commander PC3r-USB have worked very and I have been tuning somewhere between 50 to 100 per year and have happy customers from Washington state to Nevada and Southern Calif. Now the new PC5 is out and available for some bikes. Over the years I also have enjoyed a good relationship with some of the management from DJ. During a Dyno class in LV a few years back we used my S3 do develop a couple of very specific PC3 maps for Buell's several years after they quit producing them. Next month while at the Dealer Expo in Indy, I will be meeting with them on this and a few other subjects. Not too sure I can get them to step up and develop the new PC5 for any Buell, but they have listened to me so far and agreed to discussions on the subject. Terry JT&S Performance | ||
| Jmr1283 |
terry thanks for talkin to them on our behalf.. I appreciate your help. and good luck | ||
| Bob_thompson |
Terry, a thank you from here also. Right now, until I learn a lot, I'm just a plug and play guy also. When the time comes, my son, the PC expert, I'm sure will help me do some programming. |
