| Author | Message | ||
     Lledlaw |
Hi there. About three years ago I bought a Buell, the model is RR1000 but its a mixture of parts the 1980s and 1990s. The bike is up and running and goes very well, handling is quick and she looks awesome (are Buells he's or she's?). The core of my bike i.e. chassis, engine mountings, engine, gearbox, exhaust and maybe the carburettors were purchased from Erik Buell in the early 90's by an Italian collector. The story goes something like this: The collector wanted Erik to build him an RR1000 but for reasons unknown to me this plan failed to materialise however Erik offered for sale this chassis and parts, the chassis is stamped "BUELL RR1000 EXP 02/86". Erik also supplied the engine stating at the time that he one more XR1000 engine and would like to build it for "fun". Upon purchasing the bike I received documentation from the vendor originally supplied by Erik Buell refering to the engine and chassis purchase, the documents relating the the chassis states that the chassis, swinging arm and engine fittings are from one of two race chassis he built for himself in the mid 80's, 1985 or 86 for his own race effort (not sure if this chassis was ever built up). Erik also describes the chassis as a light weight chassis and that this chassis was his number 2 chassis (or back up chassis?): What "light weight" means or rather the differences between the production RR and my 1985/6 chassis I cannot advise, I guess I would need to compare both chassis side by side. My problem is this; I cannot use the bike for either race or track demonstration purposes as the modern parts fitted make it ineligible for post classic events, please see photos on the XL Forum, Buell Gallery see photographs titled "Buell RR1000 (CR&S)" or use the links below. I want to build the bike back to period race specification (i.e. parts available in 1985/6). There are many deviations from the RR's raced in the 80's by Don Tilley and Erik Buell - the forks, triple clamps, brakes and wheels all come from race Ducati 916 to 996 and need to be replaced as a priority as these are the principle reason for ineligibility. The engine is XR1000 with a race prepared crank, Carillo rod, forged pistons, titanium valves and collars, flowed heads and cam shafts that are a mystery (they are not stock items) that allow the engine the rev very freely. The other engine internals have been re tooled and race prepared. Primary is 883 with Barnet race clutch, 4 speed close gearbox and 42mm flat slide carburretors (Keihin). Rear shock is Ohlins. I'm looking for help with the identification and location of period race cycle parts and / or detailed photographs of parts fitted to other racing Buell’s of the time or even details of stuff as fitted to Lucifer 2. On my shopping list are forks, triple clamps, wheels, brakes body work and tanks etc. At the end of the day I want a bike I can use in post classic events. The core of the bike is OK, the engine pulls like a train and the chassis, engine mounts and fittings, the engine, primary and gearbox, ignition, the exhaust and the carburettors are all in excellent condition. The carburretor angles are all screwed up so the bike only runs well on the main jets (new manifolds here so an easy fix). The revcounter is a Krober and I will stay with the Ohlins rear shock also. Any guidance or other help you can give me would be greatly appreciated. Steve (Message edited by lledlaw on July 15, 2008) (Message edited by lledlaw on July 15, 2008) (Message edited by lledlaw on July 20, 2008) | ||
| Spiderman |
Contact Henry Duga at Buell and I believe Court Canfield would like to talk to you as well, You can PM him through this board. He even has his own section "Court is in Session" | ||
| Wardan123 |
 A very nice piece of history... | ||
| Court |
There are many parts available for the RR-1000's. A couple years ago when a windscreen was damaged an owner contacted me wanting to know where to find such a "rare" windscreen. I had two windscreens shipped that day. Henry is, at present, dedicated to racing. The best contact is Tom Anglim at 262-642-2020. He can let you know what parts are available and there is a fairly decent chance he's the one who built the bike. The bike in the photo appears to be a homologation of parts and pieces from a variety of sources and the frame looks "non-Buell" although it may, as stated, have been a one-off. Fun stuff! | ||
| Lledlaw |
Thanks Guys will do as you suggest. I have tried Henry already but have had no response as yet so will try Tom Anglim Regarding the frame; I have researched the chassis its very very similar to RR's both in dimension, structure and in other details e.g. the engine mountings including the bespoke Buell alloy castings. Also documentation I have from the Buell Motor Corporation confirms the chassis number but I guess as an early frame and pre production of the RR's the are bound to be differences - If its not Buell I will taking a flight to Milan for a chat and then a spot of lunch  When I get the bike stripped things should be more clear. Thanks again. | ||
| Diablobrian |
very cool! | ||
| Djkaplan |
Whoa! Is that the RR in question in the pic? Looks fantastic. More pics! Never seen an XR engine RR up close except in magazines. That was the bike that infected me with the Buell bug way back in the mid 80's. Looks great naked. | ||
| Lledlaw |
http://xlforum.net/photopost/data/500/medium/DSCF0 399.JPG http://xlforum.net/photopost/data/654/medium/DSCF0 422.JPG http://xlforum.net/photopost/data/654/medium/DSCF0 4181.JPG | ||
| Glitch |
Extra nice! I think it's awesome you're riding it, racing it even, rather than letting it sit somewhere.  | ||
| Lledlaw |
What else can you do but ride it, polish it, fix it, polish it and ride it again. Last time out was Spa Francochamps a week or so ago. | ||
| Glitch |
I'm with you! | ||
| Lledlaw |
still looking for help guys? steve | ||
| Davegess |
It looks very much like an RR 1000 frame and engine. The swing arm ins not right BUT it may just be reinforced. The correct front suspension would be a Marzocchi from the period. The ones that have rebound in one leg and compression in the other. I don't remember the exact model of fork. A couple of frames were built without motors, all the production bikes had real VINs, a long string of letters and numbers dictated by the government. Erik may well have put together a "special" after production was stopped as he needed money but it is more likely that the bike is one of ones that was sold as just a frame. | ||
| Davegess |
Also 16" Dymag magnesium wheels would be correct. There are a bunch of details in our book 25 Years of Buell from Whitehorsepress.com Dave | ||
| Lledlaw |
Thanks Dave Your help is very much appreciated. Forks were Marzocchi as you say model is M1R. I think I may have located some; Tom Anglim is being very helpfull. Fitting 16" Dymags could be a problem as tyre choice is very limited. I will take a look at your book. Thanks again. Steve | ||
| Joe58 |
I remember RR1000s raced by a NZ dealer and another one in Japan both with small fairings and XRTT style tail sections. The Japanese bike I believed was raced by the Sundance crew. It was common practice to use the narrower Evo primary cover on racing XR1000s & RR1000s. Lucifer's Hammer2 was also fitted with a one of two 5 speed gearsets. I tried to locate the other one for my own XR1000 but to no avail. Storz claimed that Don Tilley used his XR1000 cams ,HD026, in Lucifer's Hammer. During the VR1000's second or third season; people were excited when the VR exceeded 168 mph during testing. Don Tilley wasn't so impressed since his OHV XR1000 powered bikes did that about 10 years prior. The intake manifolds are shaped to clear the Buell frame. I don't know if they're the same between the RR1000 street and race bikes. Also all of the race bikes that I've seen have the braced swingarm. The overseas RR1000s had racing successes years after the domestic efforts. Good Luck it's a great machine. | ||
| Lledlaw |
"It was common practice to use the narrower Evo primary cover on racing XR1000s & RR1000s" Not long after I purchased the bike the clutch failed. Replacing it was a nightmare and the outer primary cover could not be removed because of chassis way in the way in one place only. I had to release engine mounts, do this and that and then twist the engine to remove the cover. Clutch changed then took 10 minutes after hours of mucking about. The narrower "Evo primary cases" are these the cases I have? I have seen a lot of variations and I am not sure. If mine are not the "narrow" ones then the narrow cases are just what I need! Thanks for the info especially the swing arm details and cam information. Unfortunately my cams are not marked. So far things seem to be working out, Dymag has promised to make wheels (in 17"), Tom Anglim of Buell has found front brakes, Forks, trees, oil tank and hopefully some wheel hubs. So I am well on my way. Have decided to stay with the seat and I am considering using an XRTT fairing and then cut as required. I must alter the manifolds though as the bike rides like camel, running on either slow jet or main. I have considered fitting Gardiner carbs as these can be fitted in any angle (for smooth slow running you must fit float chambers). I run these on other bikes and they are superb. If interested I might keep a photo diary of the build and post it somewhere on this site. Again thanks for the help. Steve (Message edited by lledlaw on July 22, 2008) (Message edited by lledlaw on July 22, 2008) | ||
| Joe58 |
The cases are the same width. Just the primary cover is narrower. Although I believe that Lucifer's Hammer 2 used an XR750 bottom end and cases so it could sustain higher revs. Also XR valve adjustment is done up top. I had a rocker arm shaft snap the end off by the nut. I never touched it so it wasn't over tighten. This isn't uncommon. Some people adapt the larger rocker shafts from a later XR. You should get an XR1000 parts book (HD # 99451-85XL Models 1979-1985) the parts unique to the XR1000 are listed in the back. And get XR750 parts catalog # 99442-08R for a cross reference. The XR1000 used the same top end as a XR750 adapted for street duty. Take care, Joe | ||
| Firstbuell |
congrats on your race bike - it may well be an unknown early jewel I got all excited this morning by a new, "I'm gonna build Lucifer's Hammer III", thread in searching BadWeb's archives, this foto of a frame VERY close to yours popped up I believe that's Erik in the background note: the foto title is mine - dunno if it really is Lucifer's - heck, mebbe it's yours!  | ||
| Lledlaw |
Progress on the RR. Well the bike is stripped and the frame paint removed which has revealed a number of scares from brackets being removed and / or changed. I think coils were originally mounted in a different place, some fairing mounts have been removed from the principle diagonal tube (headstock to swing arm pivot). Plus the rear sub frame has been beefed up at some point. The engine is stripped and the black paint removed. Upon inspection the engine shows almost no wear at all. There’s lots of titanium inside the engine valves and collars, screws etc. The Cams are Storz (I have been advised). The crank has had a lot of work and I don't believe is a HD item. I have made new inlet manifolds and the carburettors will sit much better. The gearbox is still 4 speed and close ratio. I have also obtained a Motoplat ignition which I am considering fitting so I can loose the battery. I have found the correct forks M1R 41.7mm which have been re-valved by Maxton Engineering in the UK, they now have compression and rebound damping in each leg. Maxton have also serviced the Ohlins rear shock. Trees are Ducati Paso but I have retooled the top tree to remove excess weight. I have new Dymags in 17 inch (3.5 front and 5.5 rear). Up front brakes rotors are 320mm Spondon taken from a Honda NS500 and refurbished. Rear is also Spondon 260mm. Still looking for AP Lockheed 4 piston callipers with 90mm mountings (same as the old AP two pot callipers) can anyone help? I have period AP master cylinders. I will re-use the oil tank currently fitted but would like to fit a lower oil ahead of the engine but not sure how this tank primes? I will make a new petrol tank that allows me to get a little more mobile on the bike as the current seat and take arrangement is too snug for my fat butt. I have also purchased a XRTT long circuit fairing from Airtech which I cut to fit and looks very neat. When I start to re-assemble I will post some pictures. Steve PS some queries where raised earlier in this thread regarding the swinging arm. Unfortunately I found some cracks in mine and ask Buell to supply a new one alas they could not. But Kim did supply me with drawings of the 1986 "simplified" RR swinging arm for me to replicate another. The swinging arm pictured on my bike is the 1986 simplified version with additional bracing. Finally there was a comment regarding the frame being "none" Buell, I now have original documentation referring to the sale of my chassis and engine on which both the chassis number and engine number are clearly marked. Does anyone know what happen to Buell Lucifer 2 chassis? I was told that Tilley HD where rebuilding Lucifer 2 but was disappointed to hear that they used the XRTT chassis that became the second version of Lucifer 2. Someone has since told me that Tilly HD do not have the Buell chassis and someone told me that the shop is so big it could easily be in there somewhere; I would dearly like to compare notes if possible. | ||
| Bernard |
The bike is what collectors refer to as a 'Bitsa.' Its value is definitely a bit lower than that of a fully documented RR1000. Pretty much like the 'continuation' Cobras Shelby himself built and sold. Still a wonderful and desirable bike, one to cherish, to ride, to enjoy, and to preserve, but not a money maker in the forseable future. Like any consumable, it goes through a period of depreciation before, decades later, its scarcity will help to lift its value. | ||
| Lledlaw |
But aren't all Buell RR1000's bitsa's; the engine is Harley, carbs Delorto, wheels dymag, forks marzocchi (as per ducati paso) brakes AP Lockheed, rear shock is White power, headlamp BMW (i think) etc etc. Definately all race bikes are. Interestingly there has been some arguement about provenance of this bike and i would like to include the following text; recently publish (I am told) by Erik Buell on his FB page. Posted by Erik Buell on his FaceBook page 2 days ago: quote: Y'know, as I rack my feeble brain, I think this actually may be more right than I first remembered. More than just the spare frame, I think the engine may have been the back- up one from the bike for Scott Z. I forgot about that race bike, which was not one of the first but did have some special stuff. Too many years. Cheers. | ||
| Court |
Hahaha ..... Good point. Still worth about the $7,000 USD that pristine RS1200 gave been fetching. A pristine RR-1000 would fetch 35-50k. If you get 200,000 .... Good for you. I had a similar thing happen when an Arab bought my XLCR and XR-1000. I told hum they were not for sale. He said money was no object. He was right. He now has both of them. | ||
| Lledlaw |
I think your $7.5k valuation is way off the mark and misleading. Consider: How much for those forks which are GP Ohlins and easy £2-3000k and will go straight onto the front of a works GP bike from the 90's. Those wheels ex works ducati and a full race prepared XR1000 engine (Ex works Buell and Ex Scott Z?). Man, the last complete XR1000 motor for sale i found was 4000bucks and it was very tired: To bring an XR motor to life to race prep spec is not cheap i.e. replace the primary, put in a decent gearbox, replace engine parts with top spec race items and rework those heads = 5000k at least and thats without good rods, race crank and doing the all the work yourself. Plus ignition, carbs, works race exhaust etc..... And the frame! Find another? Erik valued the frame at $4000 in 1992 and the engine similarly and both need major work to make usable. There has been a lot of genuine interest in this bike, some want to buy the whole bike as is, one guy has asked me to rebuild the bike to 86/87 race spec and others want me to break it! And another has made an offer I think i will find hard to turn down. But I am in no rush. The advertised price is to scare off those that make ridiculous offers and should know better. | ||
| Lledlaw |
Oh yeah and I still don't understand the frame number "Buell RR1000 EXP 02/86" which I cannot help reading as number 2 1986 and from all of the emails and discussions no one has explained it. I do know that there were 52 bikes, one prototype, one race bike and 50 vin bikes. I am told all 50 of the VIN bikes are accounted for and I have a letter signed by Erik that describes my chassis as a race chassis! I think I waste enough of my life chasing this one. | ||
| Figorvonbuellingham |
Saw tho bike for sale a while back for $155,000 |
