| Author | Message | ||
     Bcrawf68 |
Checked with the local Buell dealer about purchasing 09 fuel injectors for my 08 bike. Was told the price was $126 and change for each. I'd like to experiment a little with the 09 injectors, but $252 + tax is too steep for what is probably a few hp on the low end. Does anyone know who makes the 09 injector and what their part number is? | ||
| Clarkjw |
I'd doing it ASAP. You'll need the 2009 map, right? BUELL GET ON THIS! | ||
| Krassh |
From what I read in an article it is more than just the injectors. It is also their position in the throttle body that was changed, so you would have to change out the entire throttle body assembly I believe. | ||
| Bcrawf68 |
The plan is to purchase the injectors, try them out and report back to you guys about the results. If it runs poorly, then I'll probably go to the local dealer to request a map or a new ecu. Krassh- Buell said they just changed the injectors. They didn't mention the throttle bodies or anything about redesigning the fuel injection. Also, the dealer said the official word is that replacing the injectors wouldn't work, but the dealer found no explanation as to why. It seems to me that the purpose of the new injectors is to atomize the fuel a little better and/or point it in a slightly different direction than the originals. That said, it seems like changing to the 09's is worth a try. | ||
| Krassh |
From this thread. http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/290 431/420996.html?1228970574 http://ukbeg.com/downloads/ATwinter08-09.pdf Read page 9. In addition to new ignition mapping, which improved the 1125 engine’s fuel economy by more than 20%, the 2009 Buell Helicon engine has twin 61mm throttle bodies with revised injector position angles. These are down by 13º which produces a fine atomisation in the cylinder head rather than droplets which hit the back of the piston. | ||
| Krassh |
So from what I take from this the injector angles changed 13% in the throttle bodies and the injectors themselves are different for a different spray pattern. | ||
| Dentguy |
I don't know, but the spray pattern could be the same and the new angle is just making it more direct into the head rather than the fuel atomization spray hitting something else first and dripping in. | ||
| Krassh |
I guess I can compare the '08 and '09 part numbers. That should tell the tale. | ||
| Teach |
They have different part numbers. I was checking to see what was needed to convert to 09 specs. It is not cheap. (Message edited by teach on December 11, 2008) | ||
| Krassh |
Looks like I was wrong in my interpretation of the article. The only part numbers that are different are the Injectors. The throttle body is the same part number for both years. | ||
| Chevycummins |
The throttle body may be the same but I think that the injectors are in the manifold under the throttle body. Are the manifold part # the same? | ||
| Slypiranna |
Thank you Chevy... Intake manifolds are separate from the t-body and this could explain a lot. Part numbers?  | ||
| Teach |
08 - INTAKE FLANGE P1804.1AM DESCRIPTION "INTAKE FLANGE, w/P0465.1AM" 09 - INTAKE FLANGE P1804.1AM DESCRIPTION "INTAKE FLANGE, w/p0465.1AM" | ||
| Slypiranna |
God Bless You Teach... Then that means the correction concerning 13' angle IS within the injector's orifices...orifices are a happy place to touchy/feely!  With this info and that of C4bird's bike using the 09 mapping, 09 engine but w/08 headers & o2 location...hmmmmm I feel a happy dance coming on!  Happy Tuning! And thanks again, TEACH, Chevy and all you other positive-R's!!!  (Message edited by slypiranna on December 11, 2008) | ||
| Teach |
I was wondering how they got the 13' angle if the intake flanges were the same. We are kinda slow at the moment, anyone need prices??  | ||
| Eweaver |
Wait a minute.... I just woke up & I'm having a hard time following the bouncing ball. What just got figured out here? (Sorry, I'M kinda slow at the moment!) | ||
| Slypiranna |
Just ripped apart the top end to verify(couldn't remember but you'd think I could after all of this last year!)...based upon the orientation, TEACH is ON IT! The injector's body position can only go in one way and that is good enuff for me to step up and test on! One faces forward and one backward...all good and worth another drop of a few "c" notes. They must have altered the shot angle out of the body of the injector in order to do this and it really makes good reason too...otherwise you'd have to retool for the manifolds and the room is questionable, let alone cost. ....enter happy dance here!...  | ||
| Teach |
From what I can gather, we are looking at putting the 09 injectors on the 08's and trying to determine what parts are needed to do so and if we have to have the 09 mapping to make it effective.  | ||
| Slypiranna |
Please, no whining about if this works, we 08 owners should get for free crap... Also no BS that we've already proved...nothing!? This is just a perfect example, again, of good input and many working together to help go forward in another positive step...OR eliminate another possibility by doing so. This will take a lot of effort and $'s to make happen but once understood, I'll post the honest findings...unless one of you beats me to the punch! Perhaps C4bird, already has!  Next! | ||
| Teach |
Sly, What is your take on needing the 09 map? Or, has it been determined if the maps are the same? I guess I could take a walk back to service and find out. | ||
| Eweaver |
Aha. Thanks Teach. So we might be able to drop the '09 injectors into the '08 throttle bodies while using the 3rd map? Interesting. | ||
| Skylerxb12r |
My guess would be that the 09 injectors in an 08 would richen it up slightly. Since the 09 injectors apparently direct the fuel in a more efficient manner, more of that fuel should be burned. Im assuming that the injectors are rated at the same flow rate. Not sure how, without testing both, that could be verified. Whichever way it affects the fueling it would be very interesting to compare between the two before and after tuning. | ||
| Slypiranna |
Mapping WILL be required. < See that period? Being that the 09 R & CR maps are of here and now and the fact that at least one/C4bird/has had that burn within his 08's ecu w/clocks...one can only assume that any dealer could burn, for a charge, this questioned update on an 08 R. This also might be the answer to my CR gear swap on an 08 R...and speedo correction?! Yahoo...if it all works?! Period. Might also take other, (question the fuel pressure regulator that Xb9 told me of different?) yet known parts/and who knows what else...but we WILL know in the end and this is nothing more than a new beginning in testing... Very little time will tell! Still dancing tho! | ||
| Teach |
Is the fuel pressure regulator part of the pump assembly?? I am having difficulty locating the pressure regulator on the electronics parts catalog. The part numbers are different for the 08 and 09 pump assem. | ||
| Slypiranna |
It should also be noted; That if an 08 R customer/owner wishes to purchase/upgrade to 09 injectors,(AND WHATEVER MIGHT ELSE COME OF ALL THIS!?) mapping &/or CR gearing, that the factory warranty should be extended from that point on, given that all is right in the world at the POS, concerning that VIN. C4bird's posts, prove (?) that similar to this has been done...if only for a different reason. The 08 primaries, were used in his warranty engine swap, along with the 08 ecu and clocks/dash head. (But in all fairness and honesty, the 08's o2 injector location is not the sweet spot...but doable is what I gather...) That means that Digital Tech II and the dealerships can burn into a prior year VIN w/updates...but cannot burn back (?)...yup, there is always a question for us outsiders... The bottom line is that IF we can find a positive step with these "tests", perhaps that will be a likely option to 08 R owners and their dealerships to entertain, under the direction of Buell's Customer Service and/or Engineering Departments...lest we not forget the local's DM! Anony SHOULD pop in here, like yesterday, if we are misunderstood in any way? Anony should also give full details and not be vague if he/she, does pop in! Key word, THINK and POST as if YOU were on the outside, wondering of the IN. The dealership involvement w/customer/owner base will only improve! Look right now?! Teach is involved and in a great way! Western Reserve in Mentor, Ohio! From the mere standpoint that all current owners/future owners and of no less credit, the fence rider's standpoints...we welcome Anony's input to lead the way. If your away on holiday...no problem, we'll cover for you! (Message edited by slypiranna on December 11, 2008) | ||
| Anonymous |
'09 injectors will require '09 headers and '09 calibration to work properly without fiddling. | ||
| C4bird |
The bike is very different from before, not quite as wild and grunty as before, but much more ridable and much better mileage. Same amount of power (although only reving to 6k for break-in), but the bike feels much smoother and more refined, not as tasmanian devil as before if that makes sense. Anonymous, should I be worried about my bike then? I asked all these questions and was told, 09 motor/injectors, my original 08 ECM with 09 calibration and 08 02's with 08 headers, all is good per buell techs and the dealer. Am I going to have future issues??? | ||
| Slypiranna |
And with that, I'm signing off and drinking heavily...long day! Thanks Anony, whomever you are! Now that we know your not on Holiday...feel free to chime in every single day! mm out... | ||
| Xb9 |
Teach, the Fuel pressure sensor is different, 08 to 09. I believe the pressure regulation is built into the pump (Message edited by xb9 on December 12, 2008) | ||
| Chevycummins |
I thought that the fuel pump assembly just had a high pressure relief built into it so the fuel system will not over pressurize. I think that the actual fuel pressure is controlled by the ecm, using the fuel rail pressure sensor to determine to run the pump faster or slower to get the desired pressure. The pump has power and the ground is pulse width modulated to control pump speed. If the pressure sensor is disconnected the pump will run at maximum pressure and the injector pulse width is modified to maintain good drivability. My AFV went to 80 front and rear with the fuel pressure at max. |
