| Author | Message | ||
     Mustangturbo |
I wanted to start this to give anyone that works for BMC the heads up! I won't keep a bike that doesn't perform as promised, and i'll never buy another bike from a company that doesn't do something about it. I'll go back to Suzuki before I continue to pay for a farse! | ||
| Court |
That's telling them ! What model Suzuki? I've been riding a Bandit 1200 and a DR-Z400 lately and they are a blast. My riding partner has 3 Suzuki's, those two plus a Hayabusa, and you'll be thrilled. But be mindful . . . I listen to him complain all the time about trying to get ANYTHING done. I always tease him because he can't name ONE person at Suzuki. Sorry to see you go but you'll have fun on the Suzi. | ||
| Rainman1ne |
Why does this keep coming up? There is NO LOSS WITH RE-FLASH!!!!!! I have dyno graphs to prove it. | ||
| Khill |
I have ridden both the old mapping vs. new mapping and regardless of any dyno numbers, the new mapping is way better. I did roll-ons against a bike with the old mapping and the new bike killed it everytime. Plus, for me on the track, the added ease of rideability is so much better which added up to getting better drives. my.02... Ken | ||
| Ponti1 |
Why does this keep coming up? There is NO LOSS WITH RE-FLASH!!!!!! I have dyno graphs to prove it. It's coming up because people are posting dyno results that contradict those you have... | ||
| Xbswede |
There are more then likely other causes to why the lower HP numbers. The guys at Latus are getting 127 HP from the 08 with third re-flash. This is inline with a bike advertised at 146 crank HP. | ||
| Carbonbigfoot |
First, we establish if there is a general issue with all the bikes reflashed, of if is a specific problem with selected bikes. My guess is that it's probably a glitch that is atypical, as the vast majority of riders have overwhelmingly positive experience. R | ||
| Kttemplar |
I know I saw a bike on the dyno pre and post flash, and there was no loss or gain of HP. This was done when the latest flash came out, specifically to see if there was an affect on HP with the new flash. I have also not experienced any loss of HP post flash on my bike. I had it dynoed prior to the re-flash, but have not been able to get it dynoed post re-flash. My seat-o-meter, though, indicates that all of the HP is still there. The loss of HP due to the re-flash IMHO, is an urban myth. Any loss of HP is due to some problem with specific bikes. Just my thoughts. Mike | ||
| Skylerxb12r |
I don't understand why there would be any reason to think that the newest flash would cause a power loss. The changes made were to improve PART THROTTLE cruising. I doubt high tps/high load parts of the maps were even changed. Its not like we swapped in smaller cams to improve drivability, just a low speed fueling/timing change. If there are before and after dyno sheets that prove there is a loss it seems like this would be the time to post them.... | ||
| Bigblock |
It is possible my complaints are due to other issues specific to my bike(mainly a loose and non-locking front coil connector), but it seems to me most other complaints of this have come from California, and a Euro-spec bike. | ||
| Easyrider |
Guys, we believe or we don't believe. For me only the dyno counts. The only way to prove if there is a difference is the following. Go to a official dealer, and ask him if you can borrow a old Non reflash ECM. on the first production models 1125R. Then take your bike to the dyno with your new reflashed ECM. Take off the left scoop so you can easy change the ECM's. Warm the bike up, Make a full throttle run, starting from 2000 RPM in 4th gear. Then take your reflash ECM of and just connect the old ECM. Then turn on the ignition, don't start the bike, reset the TPS, turn off the ignition and then start the bike and make another run in 4th gear. And then show me the results. | ||
| Skylerxb12r |
+1 Easy | ||
| Pariah |
Is it possible people are complaining because they don't realize the difference between crank hp and wheel hp? As in, at the wheel, there are losses via the transmission and various loads on the engine (alternator, water pump, etc.). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horsepower (Message edited by Pariah on December 05, 2008) | ||
| Bob_thompson |
I believe that quite possibly until we have all 1125's on a dyno pre and post flash that these discussions are moot. There are far too many variables to account for. Period I also believe that ANY engine can be enhanced with tuning whether mechanical or through ECM programming. With that said usually you gain somewhere and loose in another area. It is up to the individual to decide just what they want in their own bikes. Some will want extra H.P. to race, some will want great street ability and most of us want great reliability. For me, the H.P., handling and reliability has been very good. My only changes so far have been for sound and cosmetics only. BMC has been very cooperative with making POSITIVE changes that aid in overall quality of our bikes and should be applauded for their effort. A while back Anonymous (Erik maybe?) said BMC produced a sport bike to be street "RIDDEN" for the maximum fun and reliability and I believe he succeeded quite well. For the racers out there; modify for that purpose and have another bike for street "fun". For me that works. 50 degrees and sunny on Sunday and I'm riding. | ||
| Sleeper_777 |
Must be venting steam? I have ridden pre and post flash bikes and love the post flash. Much improved street-able riding. | ||
| Two_buells |
Court, you kill me! "can't name ONE person at Suzuki"  +1 | ||
| Anakist |
I have noticed it isn't as abrupt in the part throttle power delivery. I thought it was down on power too, but I have only done ~300km so haven't had a chance to test full throttle anything on it. Personally I think the trade off is worth it even if it did lose power. I would much rather have a bike that has smooth power delivery than one with 5hp more, but that may be because I ride on the street... James | ||
| Mustangturbo |
You know, I am getting almost 10 miles to the gallon better at 70-75 mph. I honestly believe that there was some hp robbing going on somewhere. I didn't have the chance to dyno the bike before so I can't back it up with numbers. I just want to know where this mpg increase came from if they didn't rob it from the performance end. There shouldn't be all of the discrepancies that we seem to be running into. P.S.- I rode a GIXXER, and I couldn't name anyone at the dealership... I can't name any at the Buell dealer either. | ||
| Rainman1ne |
I'm getting better mileage too and yet the graphs show they added fuel, I don't get it either but hell it works | ||
| Skylerxb12r |
What seems to be misunderstood here is the idea of changing a portion of the fuel map. It's absolutely possible to lean out the part throttle cruise mixture and richen up the wide open portions of the map so that you would have increased economy AND horsepower. Now im not saying that the bikes have more power with the third flash, its just an example. Unless you make dyno pulls at 1/4 throttle and/or cruise at WOT the comparison between mileage and peak horsepower is apples and oranges.... | ||
| Carbonbigfoot |
Dead on, Skyler. R | ||
| Slypiranna |
None of the above applies. There is no loss in power unless you were already down on power given an issue with your engine. There is no magic fueling change? Where does this crap come from? The pre/post fuel and spark maps don't lie, they are in all of our ecu's. Extract them, analyze them and then post your findings. Many have compared them, along with the 09's...they cannot be argued as being "this" off. Inner workings of the ecu conversions were the culprit prior to the latest flash. If your not happy still, take it back to the dealer for further diagnostics... ...in the meantime, don't post bullshit "fact" here? Just a thought!  | ||
| New12r |
P.S.- I rode a GIXXER, and I couldn't name anyone at the dealership... You missed that one big time.... I have not only MET, but hung out with Erik Buell, you know the guy whos name is on your bike, as well as many of the top level guys and numerous peeps who work the factorys, events, etc.... So how often do the Suzuki family do meet and greets?? Anyway if you are basing a power loss on mpg increase then maybe you should step back and find some "PROOF" that your bike is now missing power before starting a thread about how your bike is somehow slower than it was before. Sorry, I forgot you have no proof... Carry on | ||
| Tasmaniac |
I have stated this Before but i lost 10.88 hp and 7 ftlb of torque after the third reflash without any other mods between and many miles between flash and dyno runs i now only have a couple of hp more than a gsxr 600 Regards Brett | ||
| Markrd500 |
In my experience the new flash is way better. Was gonna sell the bike before I had it done,now theres no chance.The power used to be like a switch,on or off.It feels much more linear now,which is why I think some feel it has less power because there's not so much of a kick up the ass.Also amazed how the suspension feels much better just because the engine is smoother. Get it done and keep it done!  | ||
| Slypiranna |
For those of you that feel or know you have a problem with your 11 & this latest flash, what have you done with your dealer and/or BMC customer service to investigate it further? | ||
| Tasmaniac |
I asked the dealer to put mine back to the stock flash but i would have to buy a new ecm myself as it is apparently not reversable. i dont think we have customer service hotline down here the phone number for HD Australia is secret squirrel stuff. | ||
| Ponti1 |
Tasmaniac, I have heard the same thing. When the dealer gets the latest flash in their system, the previous one becomes unavailable. Can't you just call the BMC Customer Service number in the front of the owner's manual? | ||
| Xbswede |
Why would you want to go back to a setting that runs 10 degrees hotter, jerks you around at low speeds and gives you 26 MPG? If you need more power, why not just tune it back in and have a healthier running bike. | ||
| Chadhargis |
Why not stop worrying about 10hp and go ride the dang thing? I've done my fair share of track time, and HP doesn't make your bike fast....the rider does. Some of the fastest guys on the track are riding bikes putting down 70hp or so, like SV650s. Even a 450 motard that lays down maybe 60hp will embarrass even the fastest literbike as it goes past them on the OUTSIDE. If the bike handles well, and runs well (meaning no anomalies in the powerband), then I'd invite you to focus on riding it, and riding it well. Heck, I took my 500+lb Ulysses laying down MAYBE 85hp and ran it up the tailpipe of an MV Agusta on my last ride. Now, when speeds got over about 110, I couldn't catch him. But what the heck, the speed limit on that road was 45. If you buy a bike because your a stat sheet racer, well...you bought the wrong bike. Go get a Ninja ZX-10 or something. Then go around bragging about how much HP you have. Me? I'll keep my "underpowered" Buell and enjoy the look on Hondakawayammasuzki riders faces as they are in disbelief that I can hang with them. Now...when they put the Rotax motor in the Ulysses, I'll have a REAL sleeper bike. (Message edited by chadhargis on December 09, 2008) |
