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Id073897
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 19, 2008 - 02:53 pm: | 
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the values are relative to the previous map position. It is the "projection vector" the software took to come to the current map position.
The map position has almost no effect on the AFV, apart from the fact that the actual cell has to be inside the learning mode region. AFV could be described as a kind of extrapolated EGO correction. If a trend in EGO correction aims for e.g. a richer mixture, then it seems quite logical, that the changed conditions will require a similar correction of fuel in open loop. Very probably the map cells inside the learning mode region have beens set up specifically to allow an easy identification of such a trend. |
Bigblock
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 19, 2008 - 09:01 pm: |
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Hmm, 90 F, 100 R now. Close to sea level. |
Chevycummins
| | Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2008 - 09:39 am: |
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The only thing that AFV seems to do for me is help with the diagnosis of a drivability problem. My AFV seems to stay close to 100 front and rear with my riding style and environmental conditions. If the front or rear started to change, 80 rear and 100 front, I would look at the rear cyl. Possibly a leaking fuel injector. If it went the other way, 100 rear and 120 front then I would look for a vac leak in the front intake manifold area, a restricted fuel injector, or mechanical problem. It seems that both front and rear AFV should stay close to each other. I think that AFV is more of a diagnostic tool more than anything. Similar to long term fuel trim on a car. |
Slypiranna
| | Posted on Friday, November 21, 2008 - 01:20 am: |
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"Long term fuel trim" should not have parameters outside of safe zones...i.e. defuel Open Loop to the point of an excessively lean condition.
Nor should enrichen beyond the calculations of what is possible, given...injector duty cycle, fuel pressure and base map pulse width.
The fuel math (BSFC) doesn't add up nor does the safety net if deleted is the case.
"Diagnostic(s)" should be a check engine/MIL and/or code...along with the ecu ignoring feedback at that point and reading strictly off safe base mapping only under such a questionable condition.
This is what "saves" a warrantied powertrain...some of us call it limp mode.
There is more to this...I really hope we learn it sooner than later!  |
Chevycummins
| | Posted on Friday, November 21, 2008 - 09:56 am: |
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This bike will set a rich or lean code. I think that if the AFV goes lower than 80 it will set a code for rich. I have had mine at 80 but did not get it any lower than that with my experiment. I thought that I read somewhere that if AFV went higher than 120 or lower than 80 it will set codes. I guess that outside these numbers the ecm will not be able to compensate enough and their could be possible damage to the engine if you kept running the bike.
The thing that I figure that the programmer was thinking when they have the AFV effecting the open loop was that if their was a problem, plugged injector for example, the condition would exist all the time so the ecm is actually going to adjust and try to richen it up so the engine won't get damaged. Most of these problems you could run into don't seem to come and go, they are there until corrected. So it is a fail safe system in a way but the AFV just helps let us know where a problem is and can monitor it to a degree. I guess I'm not going to worry about it to much at this time, but it does seem to make sense to me. |
Id073897
| | Posted on Friday, November 21, 2008 - 11:29 am: |
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I think that if the AFV goes lower than 80 it will set a code for rich
This would be a new feature then. The XB versions set a rich/lean code only based on O2 signal (no transition) - this works in open loop also, whereas monitoring AFV changes is bound to closed loop (calibration mode).
The idea behind AFV is, that (a smoothed) EGO correction, applied in closed loop, should somehow be applied to open loop also. Thus AFV has always been preceeded by a similar EGO correction.
that if their was a problem, plugged injector for example, the condition would exist all the time so the ecm is actually going to adjust and try to richen it up so the engine won't get damaged
This situation is handled by open loop learning (as long as not switched off in system configuration). An engine running lean in open loop above the closed loop region, will get the mixture enriched by an advanced AFV. |
Slypiranna
| | Posted on Friday, November 21, 2008 - 04:14 pm: |
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This is becoming more interesting, with or without AFV postings.
More thoughts and questions...
Looking at wide band feedback (read; separate from stock narrow band o2s) while in closed loop supports much leaner "targets" than 14.7:1.
Three separate "flashes" on this 08 1125R (8k miles) have finally settled to an average of approx 16:1...although I admit that this number's average changes per condition and in both directions by up to .6 of a point in A/F ratio...approx 90% of "time"/"samples" on the leaner side of the scope.
This example is of the non catalyst population...sea level to +1000' elevation with a December 07 build. USA.
One simple reality is that I've never found a condition that goes far below 15.4:1 A/F ratio in CL...even with many inputs manipulated.
Is this the difference in PPM emission from a catalyst and non catalyst equipped 08 1125?
Using ECMspy to extract the base F & R maps, then converting the HEXdecimals, one can question/begin to visualize the CL region's fueling beginnings.
(Thanks to the lad that sent the above to me!...As this extraction was over my head! )...AND Thank You ECMspy, just the same! It was meant to be! A number of months ago... 
We've already been educated by insiders that this ecu "targets" 14.7:1 in CL but is it possible that the hidden page(s?) contain other function(s?) to start with the stock o2's feedback...then calculate a leaner CL "output" via pulse width...TO MEET THAT EPA destination?
We obviously have a number of different calibrations for the 08 1125R. Based upon destination and with or w/o catalyst. It is reasonable to question if the actual fueling could be "richer" with the catalyst equipped examples, based upon PPM calculations?
Yes, the EPA of all destined countries had a major impact on how the engineer's married this ecu's functions.
Whether or not the AFV function rules or follows suit within the final deal is yet proven on this motorcycle.
Being on the outside, I question if this latest example (DDFI III - AFV's and systems) is perhaps the biggest advantage to the DDFI III system op's...that are governed by EPA criteria.
Build tolerance, environmental conditions, applied running conditions and the differences in fuels seem to be the most difficult to mix.
Actual factory sensor input should be reasonable to (I hope!) assume within a fairly tight window of tolerance.
What else are we over looking? |
Choppercz
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 26, 2008 - 10:44 pm: |
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Front 99.5 Rear 90.0---- HR1 Exhaust is the only mod on my bike... |
Slypiranna
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 26, 2008 - 10:48 pm: |
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Elevation Choppercz?
Also, what was your AFV's pre/post HR1 exhaust if you know?
Finally, how many miles since the exhaust install?
THANKS and HAPPY Thanksgiving! |
Velocity
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 26, 2008 - 11:02 pm: |
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Mine is:
winchester,Va/08/1125R/980mi./100F/100R
Latest flash, k&n filter
Scott |
Choppercz
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 26, 2008 - 11:05 pm: |
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Really not sure about elevation. I am in Kansas City, MO.(Midwest). Didn't check the AFV's before the exhaust install. I have had the HR1 for 450 miles. I hope this info helps |
Slypiranna
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 26, 2008 - 11:25 pm: |
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Choppercz,
You at approx +758' elevation...and YES, you input helps! Thanks!
How's she running?
Velocity,
+725' elevation...Thanks to you as well!
How's she running?
Who is next for input on AFV's, feedback, mods and elevation?...or something else that we could all learn by?! |
Dhdjr
| | Posted on Thursday, November 27, 2008 - 12:57 pm: |
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Tempe,Az/elevation 1,140ft/June 08/25R/1100miles/109.5f&105r
D&D pipe w/ Remus Powerizer. Prior to installing Powerizer(400 miles ago)afv's were 115.5f&100r. |
Choppercz
| | Posted on Thursday, November 27, 2008 - 10:03 pm: |
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She is running like a champ.....
I luv this bike.
I got a quick question.... How can I tell if this bike is running lean or rich? |
Zac4mac
| | Posted on Friday, November 28, 2008 - 01:30 am: |
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A dyno with a sniffer, or read your spark plugs. |
Xb9
| | Posted on Friday, November 28, 2008 - 02:20 am: |
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they are designed to run lean in closed loop
Thank our EPA and tree huggers. |
Slypiranna
| | Posted on Saturday, November 29, 2008 - 07:05 am: |
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"Tempe,Az/elevation 1,140ft/June 08/25R/1100miles/109.5f&105r
D&D pipe w/ Remus Powerizer. Prior to installing Powerizer(400 miles ago)afv's were 115.5f&100r."
That is interesting! We've had more than a few with 115+ AFV's with aftermarket exhausts...along with red primary pipes!
I'd be curious to understand MORE of the powermizer than what is published...
Thanks Dhdjr! |
Velocity
| | Posted on Saturday, November 29, 2008 - 11:58 am: |
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Sly, bike is running fine, looking into a couple mods. I will advise if the AFV's change. |
Dhdjr
| | Posted on Saturday, November 29, 2008 - 12:28 pm: |
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Sly,
I was skeptical @ first concerning the powerizer but #'s don't lie. The backfiring is gone, the sound has a deeper pitch, runs slightly cooler. I'll monitor closely but so far so good. |
Slypiranna
| | Posted on Saturday, November 29, 2008 - 02:44 pm: |
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Dhdjr,
+1, the #'s don't lie! I couldn't agree with you more.
How do you understand the workings of the powerizer? Anything in the instructions that give more detail than is in the advertisements?
Based upon your AFV's responding, I assume your factory o2's are still hooked up?
Velocity,
Thanks! It might take a while tho to see a change in AFV's...every time I've made a mod I've had to ride this 11 for at least 175 miles before a new change is reflected via diag mode...
Choppercz,
A dedicated dual wideband monitor will be the single best investment if your going to be getting serious in the future.
Its amazing to be able to look down and see the numbers when in question! I've got a FAST unit on mine and wouldn't attempt a change without it.
Thanks for all of your inputs! mm |
Smoke
| | Posted on Saturday, November 29, 2008 - 07:38 pm: |
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100F, 105R 40ft street bike flash 3, 2500miles since.
100F, 100R 40ft track bike flash 3, 200 track miles since, no learning runs.
tim |
Dhdjr
| | Posted on Sunday, November 30, 2008 - 11:53 am: |
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Sly,
02's are hooked up,the Remus is working per it's claim to monitor the engine & add fuel when needed. Judging by the way the bike has changed for the better I like the unit. The instructions are straight forward (no hype) installation/troubleshooting. Time will tell how consistent & durable the unit is though. keep ya posted |
Badlionsfan
| | Posted on Sunday, November 30, 2008 - 03:08 pm: |
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Hmmm, I wonder if anyone has dynoed the Remus poweizer with the Remus exhaust. That's still my favorite exhaust so far, and I'm just not smart enough to be playing with the ECM myself. |
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