| Author | Message | ||
     Gearheaderiko |
archive | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
For the benefit of discussion, moved from: http://www.badweatherbikers.com/cgibin/discus/boar d-auth.cgi?file=/20164/20311.html (Message edited by gearheaderiko on November 16, 2008) | ||
| Ezblast |
Erik - What fork oil and what springs are you using? EZ | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
Stock springs, 1" preload and 20w-50 engine oil (if I remember correctly). | ||
| Ezblast |
Try 7.5 Fork oil, a works springs kit - with their own set of pre-loaders to choose from - they are worth it - only thing left would be gold valve emulators - sold for our popular size - my front end is so stable - I've never thought about a damper - not even for all that rain I keep bumping into - lol - add a fork brace - as you have - some low profile tires - and your handling becomes quicker and more sure - the bike feels more comfortable in lean. I'm sure my riding stance with the rear-sets and low bars helps as well. EZ | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
Front end stability wasnt an issue. It was the rear end moving out due to the articulated frame design. The stabilizer held the front fork in place making the frame more rigid, which meant the rear wheel movement had less effect on the front. And a stiffer frame in this situation helps. Whether it actually helped handling is debatable, but I felt better and confidence always helps! Quite a few who've pushed a Blast hard through the turns note the articulated feel of the bike. Ride a brand new Blast and then a well worn Blast and its easy to see the point. The Blast I was riding was set up stiffer and for a heavier (and faster) rider. If I was riding my streetBlast with the softer suspension (set for me) I may not have noticed the bike wandering through the very long turn as much, but I did notice the XB do the same thing. The 20w50 engine/fork oil was out of necessity.Thinner fork oil with the stock springs was incapable of dampening the front end enough. The front tire was seriously shredded (very significant cupping) at the end of the first race weekend. Front tires last much longer now (probably at least 3 race weekends) before they're pulled off for street duty. Ideally, stiffer fork springs and gold valves would help keep the front tire better on the ground. But without the addition of either of them, thin fork oil could even be considered dangerous What I'm saying is, throw 7.5 fork oil in a bone stock front end and then take fast turns, you're going have bad things happen. It only works with the necessary modifications.IMHO Remember (should be a golden Buell/Harley rule) that whatever rubber mounted parts you stiffen up, that vibration (or lack of motion) is going to be transferred/absorbed somewhere else. Stiffen the front mounts, the back is likely to feel more mushy. Running a steering dampener as stiff as I ran (or is run) on the track will eventually lead to frame fatigue if used on a street Blast. FWIW: Its not that I dont have the knowledge or access to better handling, I just dont have the money. With the race budget seriously cut and running a full(partial) race season in doubt, I dont have the motivation or time to move forward on many modifications  | ||
| Ezblast |
I ran with 7.5 fork oil after my first year of riding the bike - no problems - so sorry I don't see that, but then I'm a bigger guy - even more weight to the front - the first guy to race a Blast said he had to put his weight as far back as his seat would allow - and that was with the Works suspension pieces front and rear - Terry P. though suggests it may be the swing arm flexing and part of what he did was seriously reinforce the swing arm when going to chain drive - perhaps your best suspension could be stiffening up the swing arm - maybe an XB one - just a thought - or a tuber? Or weld some rebar all around the edge of the swing arm re-enforcing it or tubing. EZ (Message edited by ezblast on November 17, 2008) | ||
| Ezblast |
200 bucks would buy you the spring kit and valves - so you are saying there is one more use for Mobil 1 in a stock motorcycle - Buell Blast specifically - lol-engine/primary/fork oil - just damn good for everything! loving Mobil 1 for even more now. - I'll try it in another set of forks I'm building up - so who gave you the idea to try that oil? EZ (Message edited by ezblast on November 17, 2008) | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
$250+ when I priced it. I've used engine oil in forks before, someone (experienced builder/racer) suggested the 20w-50 as 30w fork oil still wasnt cutting it. The stabilizer is still a band aid. Other things should be done. I can say that I almost threw the bike on the ground when pitching it into a fast turn after I cranked up the dampener. The turn response was sooo much better. On the smaller, tighter, track I found the stabilizer was not necessary, but my recent experience found it would probably still be beneficial (for me). James at a much faster pace found it beneficial on both tracks. On the street its debatable and I think it would depend on rider and conditions. I dont think an XB swingarm would have helped as the XB performed the same way through the same turn (except the wider tires moved the confidence level way up). I'm certain the swingarm could be improved, but I think the rubber joints throughout the frame probably cause more flex. Tire 'data' was taken from when the Blast was ridden to the fastest stock frame lap times I've seen. I cant see the point in comparing data from slower lap times. 7.5 weight oil isnt thick enough to keep the front tire from bouncing. Stock rear shock also suffers the same problem. It is important to note that much of this is comparing apples to oranges. Street riding is not track riding and to compare my personal track riding experience to those riding at a race pace is certainly laughable! | ||
| Ezblast |
You could go to 5.0 fork oil, but that is supposed to be strictly for racing and not recommended for the street - lol EZ | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
5.0 squooshy soft and bouncy in a Blast front fork!LOL! (I know you're kidding, but I'll respond for the sake of others reading): Just because it says "racing", or "Race Only" does not make it necessarily street high performance and for all fork oil applications. Front forks set up for a high speed (100+ mph) road course will need a stiff setting to keep control of the bike, but thinner fluid to still allow it to move. Certainly not an 'every case' scenario. Things need to be balanced and if actually tuning a front end were to be done, you'd take all variables into consideration. For an archaic design front fork like the Blast you can only do so much. 5 weight fork oil would be great in a stock Blast if you wanted a Cadillac like ride (just dont hit the brakes too hard)! | ||
| Ezblast |
Wouldn't fork oil with that much viscosity start to shear and become worthless rather quickly though - meaning the engine oil? - how often do you change that out - lol EZ | ||
| Ezblast |
The Blast Fork Brace Number - with generic picture - please ignore - http://www.superbrace.com/proddetail.asp?prod=4431 -01 EZ | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
"Wouldn't fork oil with that much viscosity start to shear and become worthless rather quickly though - meaning the engine oil? - how often do you change that out - " Hadnt put much thought into that, I didnt expect the setup to last very long until further mods required fluid changing (and tuning). Good point though. I wouldnt expect it to last the 20k between recommended change intervals, but that could also depend on the application. | ||
| Ezblast |
Perhaps once a race season? EZ | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
Well that certainly makes sense. (really kinda confusing dialogue as we go back and forth between racing and street applications) Every race season or as needed on the street (20k or less). | ||
| Ezblast |
Its not like you have to take them off to drain them - apply 10 dollar drill pump and your done, then refill to speck - no muss - no fuss - lol EZ | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
Either way its easy to change, especially with the front wheel coming off anyway. I have already figured out a preload adjuster and a fluid drain too. But alas, time, money and motivation has diminished... | ||
| Ezblast |
Do tell on the preload adjuster... EZ | ||
| Reuel |
EZ! Do you have pictures of the $10 pump fork oil change, or a more detailed description? You make it sound easy. | ||
| Ezblast |
Harborfreight, autostores, JCWhitney,plumbing section in HD, Sears - all sell the little drill pump - attaches to a drill - put the suction hose in after taking the springs out, empty, add new oil, re-assemble - done. Jack the front so there is no pressure on the springs, and keep track of all the parts in tear-down/re-assembly and your golden. There are not a lot of tech parts to the Blast fork making it easy to work on - short of replacing the seals, everything else can be done with the forks on the bike. EZ Erik A set of Gold Valves is 150 nowdays, and spring kits are 120 - my numbers where old, but these are current. EZ | ||
| Slowhand96 |
EZ Does jacking up the bike, getting the front wheel off the ground, relieve ALL the spring pressure? So there is no risk of anything ricocheting off of one's forehead? | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
Hey Slowhand! It does not relieve ALL the spring pressure. If its stock (preload-no spacers) there is still some pressure, but if you're careful its very unlikely to launch. Add spacers and its a different story. DO NOT LOOSE the lockrings (stop rings, snap rings)! They are unobtainable from Buell, but some lock/snap rings from a tranny or bearing shop will probably work, but you'll have to find them. | ||
| Slowhand96 |
Hi Erik! (I just sent you an email) I've been lurking on here from time to time this summer, I feel bad that I didn't take a sec to say Hi to everyone, so I will now. HI EVERYONE!! I had to ask about the spring pressure because I know from experience... and a mark on my forehead... lol.. there there WAS still some spring pressure on the forks of my old FXR. I wasn't sure about the Blast though. Fork oil is one of the projects I've been planning this winter. (Message edited by slowhand96 on November 30, 2008) |
