| Author |
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Blake
| | Posted on Saturday, November 15, 2008 - 04:06 pm: | 
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Then I'm in the minority, this after over a decade of riding three different Buell motorcycles. Expecting the world to revolve around oneself will usually lead to anger and resentment. |
Blake
| | Posted on Saturday, November 15, 2008 - 04:08 pm: |
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Let me clarify. When/if I ever get angry over any kind of material "stuff", then I've forgotten what the blessings of life on Earth really are. |
Duggram
| | Posted on Saturday, November 15, 2008 - 04:10 pm: |
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OK Peter, you're way cool!
Thanks for all the replies, positive and negative. I do understand the issue and I'm sensitive to it. But there needs to be some process to weed out the squids/trouble makers. I spent a half hour on the phone with Henry. I agree he is a nice person and very helpful. But after reviewing with him what I've done so far I think I do qualify for the race ECM and any other race part that the BMC is selling.
BTW I won't repeat what was said but I did contact Steve Slaughter. He went a long ways in helping me understand how to deal with this situation. I'm very confident it will get worked out.
The reason I bought the 1125 for track use is because I like the bike for this purpose and think it's the right ride for me.
I would appreciate it if we could hold the negative comments about the BMC and Eric. You gotta believe in their values. I just wish I could be an insider, and have not given up hope that I will be. |
Blake
| | Posted on Saturday, November 15, 2008 - 04:30 pm: |
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Great attitude. I appreciate it.
You are looking to work at Buell Motorcycle Company? |
Lecanadysbcglobalnet
| | Posted on Saturday, November 15, 2008 - 04:33 pm: |
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If I shut up and go away, is this what you tell every one with an opinion that differs from yours, because what I have found here on this page is exactly why I bought the R, a great bunch of guys very willing to share there knowledge and help. it's what made me hunt until I found a dealer that let you test one & it was over!!!
I bet if you go back and read what I've said I made 2 points Henry has pressure from without his department and new guys buying this bike are under the assumption that the bike will run well and all stems from that.
I also made mention of Executive like insurance people. From what I know of Eric Buell he is a visionary individual that has beat the odd thru hell and back and has succeeded. I believe I said if Eric Buell knew about this he would take care of it.
And I whined a lot Sorry For the whining. I have no intention of offending guys that have put copious amount of time and money in a pursuit I'm just entering. I'll cool my heels,listen and comment in a much more non whiny mode. Thanks to you all there are very few places like this. I know when I'm wrong and this was one of those times.
Les |
Xb9
| | Posted on Saturday, November 15, 2008 - 04:40 pm: |
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If it wasn't for the EPA regs and litigation, I'm sure BMC wouldn't have to be so careful. Things would be very different (dream on). It's not BMC, its the regs. My experience with BMC and Henry Duga in particular have been nothing short of spectacular when I was racing my XB. I'm sure it's a matter of just getting ASMA on 'the recognized organization list' |
Duggram
| | Posted on Saturday, November 15, 2008 - 04:45 pm: |
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David, couldn't agree with you more.
Thanks Blake! |
Court
| | Posted on Saturday, November 15, 2008 - 07:40 pm: |
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Henry Duga, rivaled only by Kim Tordik, is about the classiest and nicest person I've met in the world of Buell since 1987.
Henry is not only one of the savviest in the USA with regard to racing, he's a very intelligent, dedicated guy with a job to do.
Henry, like anyone regulated by the feds, has a job to do and strict guidelines within which he must act.
While some of us, as I have on 3 occasions the last week, can break internal Harley-Davidson rules with little more than admonishment, there are stiff fines and consequences if Henry steps afoul of legal guidelines.
Henry Duga has never said an unkind word about anyone in the nearly quarter decade I've known him and it's a major disappointment to see his name in a thread with this tone.
The dealer, under the Harley-Davidson dealer contract, is your first point of contact. ALL, that's ALL, sales are required to go through the dealer. There has been a special procedure implemented to allow adherence to the rules (actually legal covenants of the contract) while allowing Henry to act as a de facto "agent at the race track" to provide top notch support to Buell racers.
If you need a contrast, call Hondo of America tomorrow in Torrance, CA and tell them you want to buy a set of HRC pistons.
Buell, Buell owners and Buell racers are blessed to have Henry Duga.
Court |
Bob_thompson
| | Posted on Saturday, November 15, 2008 - 07:52 pm: |
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I am not a racer but a tuner and am hoping people like Xb9 (thanks much for your efforts) and others will find a way to do programming on our 1125 ECM's so we can better tune for performance and NOT EPA standards. If I'm an outlaw so be it; I have fought for our freedoms and this is one. If I'm not misinformed, i.e. I thought, except for the peoples republic of California, that a manufacturer just had to "produce and sell" a vehicle that meets EPA regulations and after the sale and transfer of title that its the consumers responsibility to meet local laws as far as emissions go. For me here there are none for bikes, YET. I want a cool running performance bike that makes H.P. Almost perfect though with latest flash.
I do understand the pressure thats put on manufacturers by the EPA but just whats "the law". As I have said before, BMC, just have a potential race ECM buyer sign a waiver" for racing purposes only" as you used to put on your tuber race ECM's and be done with it. Seem simple enough but I may be uninformed. Lets have some other input please. Outlaw Bob here. |
Slypiranna
| | Posted on Saturday, November 15, 2008 - 08:39 pm: |
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After reading today's posts...
I hope that no one took anything that I voiced earlier as a direct, negative attack on Mr. Duga. Such was/is not the case but if even one did, you all and Mr. Duga have my formal apology.
The positive posts, by those more in the know, were needed, mainly for educating the methods/procedures that are required to have legitimate access to this equipment.
Many racers have felt a little vague regarding this thread's subject.
I've got three individuals that I will be emailing this link to asap. Perhaps they will gain a better understanding of procedure.
Final thoughts to these posts...street guys/gals with mods wishing to go against all known rules should take another look.
The stock ecu will support a lot more than most have proven capable of understanding. mm |
Court
| | Posted on Saturday, November 15, 2008 - 08:41 pm: |
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quote:I thought, except for the peoples republic of California, that a manufacturer just had to "produce and sell" a vehicle that meets EPA regulations and after the sale and transfer of title that its the consumers responsibility to meet local laws as far as emissions go
That used to be true. For the best recapitulation of the events go back and read some if the industry rags about the time Harley-Davidson discontinued all the aftermarket pipes and Screamin' Eagle parts.
There are HUGE fines for non-compliance and something that borders on a presumption of guilt.
In other words. . . you legitimately buy a "Race" part, get caught with it on the street. Guess who is culpable?
I'm not saying it's fair but neither is the govt. (see Red Lion Broadcasting Co. v. FCC, 395 U.S. 367 (1969) Supreme Court of the United States of America) deciding what talk radio shows can say.
Buell, in addition to helping racers (which they have excelled at) has a corporate responsibility to act responsibility and protect the company.
During the years Henry has been doing this (somewhere on the order of 20) this is the first time I have ever heard of a problem leading me to presume it's a matter of communication.
It will be worked out between the young man and his dealership, not via the Internet. |
Slypiranna
| | Posted on Saturday, November 15, 2008 - 09:10 pm: |
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Good information Court.
Question,
Is it possible for Blake or another to put together;
A foolproof heading within this website to cover ALL criteria that is required for race certification?
I mean, a step by step flowchart, if you will, so that Mr. Duga's phone will be more open and all that are not informed, will be.
It has been proven, by a few, that current information is still not being understood.
(Message edited by slypiranna on November 15, 2008) |
Court
| | Posted on Saturday, November 15, 2008 - 09:38 pm: |
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Someone sent me an e-mail and I'm still trying to get the "brought back to life" MAc to send . . . I'll post it here in the event it's of help.
quote:
It is essential that the contact START through the dealer.
This is spelled out, not that any owner would see it, in the dealer agreement.
Imagine for a moment that you'd put up $1,000,000 of your personal cash and a letter of credit for another $1,000,000 to become a Harley-Davidson dealer. Then you found out that Harley-Davidson was selling parts, that you had the exclusive right to sell, around you to racers at the track and cutting you out of the deal.
Buell has crafted a nifty way to get around what has traditionally been a problem by allowing racers to ESTABLISH AN ACCOUNT WITH THEIR DEALER that allows them to pick up parts from Henry at the track and be billed by the dealer.
In addition the fines for non-compliance are much greater. I **think** it is $100,000 per bike in violation, but I am not sure. It used to be that HD sold "loud" mufflers and it was no big deal, folks looked the other way. Not so any longer, my riding partner has been pulled over twice in October and had his exhaust checked for 80dB compliance.
Essentially Buell, dig this, is totally responsible if a racer takes a bike with a race ECM on the street. It makes no sense but who would you rather sue . . . Harley-Davidson with $2,00,000,000 cash in the bank or a racer with $37?
Does that help or confuse things?
Court
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01xjbuell
| | Posted on Saturday, November 15, 2008 - 10:33 pm: |
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After reading my first post I want to mirror Sly's above post, Henry was very good to talk to when I ordered my racing pads for my 1125.... I was more focused on the tuning part. Not even necessarily a "race" ECM but just a tuning solution to add some more fuel to improve power and dyno-tune to this amazing motors true potential. Thanks for everything all of you do guys,
Nick |
Slaughter
| | Posted on Sunday, November 16, 2008 - 12:42 am: |
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It's late, I broke my motor on the track today and I'm tired... but you MUST fill out the forms, get the dealer's number that you will be working with and file all that with Duga/BMC.
Heck, like a lot of racers, I personally have gotten to know a bunch of Buell engneering and testing staff - but it doesn't make any difference, I still had to file and submit the paperwork.
It's there in the Buell subcategory of Racing - somewhere... but like I said, I'm tired and can't race tomorrow so I'm also grumpy. |
Lecanadysbcglobalnet
| | Posted on Sunday, November 16, 2008 - 01:14 am: |
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Court,
Thank you!!!
In all my comments, none were intended as personally derogatory attacks, & and to those that took offence, I apologize.
Court, you have made the subject Cristal clear.
I understand completely what liability means first hand, after spending 7yrs under 2 EPA Felony indictments for something an employee of mine had done unbeknownst to me. Both carting 10 yr sentences 1 million in fines and 1 marriage. Just because he worked for me.
I get it!!! And understand the pressure liability brings w/it.
It is obvious Mr. Henry has BMC's full confidence and rightly so. I should have respected that in never mentioning his name in the context of my comments. HE DESERVES BETTER!!!
I also understand this is only a developing hobby to me, but to some here their livelihood first as well as a passion.
I stand very corrected and once again apologize, for using this platform to vent my personal beefs. It has been a day of good lessons learned, it feels like my dad just walked out of the room putting his belt back around his waist, after one of his talks. If you can relate.
Again thanks for all you help,
Les |
Duggram
| | Posted on Sunday, November 16, 2008 - 04:04 am: |
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Steve, that's crummy news. Hope it's not bad. I think about that a lot when I'm on the road between home and the track. These motors take some awful abuse. I know my turns coming.
Thanks for the tip on paperwork. I'll have it done Monday and email it to Henry. Good luck. |
Duggram
| | Posted on Sunday, November 16, 2008 - 04:40 am: |
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Why does everyone think I have something against Henry Duga? I don't. If you read all of my posts http://www.badweatherbikers.com/cgibin/discus/show .cgi?tpc=290431&post=1308938#POST1308938 you would understand that I see the problem is the system, not Henry. I also understand about BMC's liablitiy (did you graduate from law school too Court? BTW I'm not an attorney, I work in surgery).
I sense a little too much crowd mentality going on in these forums. I also understand it's difficult to not pile on when you see the crowd's reaction. But I would a appreciate a little restraint.
Thanks, Doug |
Diablo1
| | Posted on Sunday, November 16, 2008 - 09:06 am: |
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If BMC is worried about EPA liability, why don't they just have an agreement with a third party (Powercommander) to produce and sell the race fuel management systems. BMC can provide the engineering data for the OEM fuel management system and sensors to Powercommander. The end result would be that more weekend racers and performance enthusiasts would have good options for the 1125. It would help the brand. |
Bob_thompson
| | Posted on Sunday, November 16, 2008 - 01:33 pm: |
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Sounds like a sensible solution to me Diablo1. +++ on that but I'm sensing BMC is more scared of EPA then we are aware of, as most companys are, after reading the last few posts. I'm also afraid more government intervention may be coming,
via EPA, with the forthcoming administration due to take over completely in February. Go Xb9 and others who are working for "Us". And still the best bike I have ever owned, pretty close, but I just love tuning to the ultimate state; when I can. I do love BadWeb. Bob |
Citified
| | Posted on Sunday, November 16, 2008 - 02:03 pm: |
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Its from Buell anyhow, you will have to take it back 3 times before it works and even then it only works half as well as claimed |
Badlionsfan
| | Posted on Sunday, November 16, 2008 - 02:08 pm: |
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Citi, WTF is your deal?
I think u need to keep your mouth shut and let the grown ups talk. |
Xb9
| | Posted on Sunday, November 16, 2008 - 02:55 pm: |
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Thanks Bob, been writing code all day..... You guys will be happy soon. |
Imonabuss
| | Posted on Sunday, November 16, 2008 - 03:09 pm: |
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Citi,
Get lost, mini troll. |
Duggram
| | Posted on Sunday, November 16, 2008 - 03:32 pm: |
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David, will your product work for newbies like myself? Will it take a lot of phone calls? Will it be familiar to my neighbor motorcycle mechanic? Will in work on Mac and Windows? Would I be able to use custom maps written for the BMC ECM?
Can't wait to see it. |
Xb9
| | Posted on Sunday, November 16, 2008 - 03:54 pm: |
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pm sent Duggram |
Ridenusa4l
| | Posted on Monday, November 17, 2008 - 12:17 am: |
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Hey xb9 same question as duggram...
thanx,
Jake |
Slaughter
| | Posted on Monday, November 17, 2008 - 01:38 am: |
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Before somebody asks Buell for the race module for the "enthusiast" - or expects an aftermarket manufacturer to step up and provide one, send a letter to Powercommander and ask them if the $3 million they lost in the EPA lawsuit was worth it.
Then all you have to do is send Powercommander's enthusiastic response to Buell and no doubt Buell will surely see the light and start selling Race ECM's to the general public once again.
Don't complain to Badweb or Buell, complain to your congressman. |
Zac4mac
| | Posted on Monday, November 17, 2008 - 09:02 am: |
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Citified - why do you have a picture of a Fiero engine compartment on your profile?
Anyway - enough of the flame-bait.
Z |
01xjbuell
| | Posted on Monday, November 17, 2008 - 10:59 am: |
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Z that looks like a built 350 in a fiero engine bay  |
Duggram
| | Posted on Monday, November 17, 2008 - 12:55 pm: |
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Just got the word that my license is acceptable to purchase an ECM.
I want to apologize for all the dramatics I started on this list. I am suitably embarrassed and remorseful. But I sure learned a lot about the people on this list and posting here.
Thank you, Doug |
Lecanadysbcglobalnet
| | Posted on Monday, November 17, 2008 - 01:47 pm: |
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Thanks for sticken it out thru the weekend, Doug, and getting your question answered. It gave we new guys some insight that was needed from those more seasoned among us that are always willing to help(even if they had to do a little medeation to let cooler heads prevail). Like court, teach, Sly, xb9, matt@tj & zac, you guys make this sight what it is,
Thanks,
Les |
Teach
| | Posted on Monday, November 17, 2008 - 03:26 pm: |
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Lecanadysbcglobalnet
Thanks for including me in that list, but humbly, I would suggest that I don't have the same stature as the others that you have mentioned. They are the guys that I look up to and admire.
Thanks!!
 |
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