| Author | Message | ||
     Duggram |
Please read my post over on the race forum. I'd appreciate your comments. http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/158 664/413811.html?1226724628 | ||
| D_buckle |
So when i get my WMRC licence in the spring i wont be able to buy the race ecm? I think thats insane. A race licence is a race licence is it not? | ||
| Duggram |
Dave, if you're like me you're a little guy. But you are still a racer! Why can't we get the same support as the guys in larger organizations? I dearly love my 1125 on the track. But if BMC won't support use, what can we do? | ||
| D_buckle |
Ya i just dont get it. Im going to be running the notice races in the northwest next year, i dont see why i dont deserve the race ecm. Maybe thats what i need to give me that little edge over the other guys out there. | ||
| Zac4mac |
hmmmmph I thought, as long as it's not "Malibu Grand Prix", a race license is a race license... For your sake Doug, I hope Henry changes his mind. Good luck however it turns out. Zack | ||
| Badlionsfan |
Hmmm, maybe ask him what it would take to prove to him that it's a legit organization. Also, ask what it would take to prove that this is a track bike. Maybe offer to send pics of the bike, and a website for the organization. Maybe Court could be of some help??? | ||
| Duggram |
Thanks Zack. I just got an email from the track owner at Arroyo Seco. He asked for Henry's phone number. Come to find out, Arroyo Seco is registered with the AMA and our riders go on to compete in AMA. This is Bull Shite. I also sent a message to Eric Buell through one of the admin assitants at BMC that has been helping me lately. I can't believe that he is going to poop on a grass roots racer. | ||
| Duggram |
Badlions, I sent a copy of my license. | ||
| Slypiranna |
What is this? Yes, we've seen this before and its not good. A racer IS a racer...who gives a flip what organization he/she belongs to? Also, what difference does it make if that racer is turning only left, going straight ahead or road racing? ITS ALL RACING BMC! As long as the bike is off the streets, BMC needs to loosen up a little. The majority of the racers, ARE the little guys and issues like these only make it harder to promote the product. I'd hate to see this thread starter, who's obviously serious, have to switch brands, just to race. If he can't get the equipment tho, I won't blame him... | ||
| Id073897 |
Never knew, that Kwaks have remapable ECUs ... | ||
| Slypiranna |
"Never knew, that Kwaks have remapable ECUs ..." Perhaps not, but this platform does and it is known available for purchase, by a dedicated "racer". If such is the case and you are a racer/meaning, only race...then why limit the involvement to only a select few "racers"...or "type" of racing or organization? An example...I used to work as a phone/tech/customer service at a very large automotive race and high performance outlet. We had a racer discount program that usual gave around 15% off what the general public could get. The only requirements were that the vehicle in question was proven off road only and that the individual purchasing was race licensed and had legal tie to that vehicle. It did not matter if they were drag racing, dirt track or even on the water! They were all considered racers. You will always get a few that try to abuse the system (and they are very easy to catch)...the majority are legit. If we were to have made it "hard" to buy these parts...hey, no biggie, they go somewhere else but that defeats the purpose, no? Sure, I wish that I could buy this ecu and play with it on my bike but I know better and so should the rest of the owners that think they can beat the system. Bottom line, yes, rules and regulations are needed but from what I've been told and seen regarding the race ecu's access...something is just not right. (Message edited by slypiranna on November 15, 2008) | ||
| Bearly |
That's dog doo. How is one supposed to tune properly even for a custom pipe? Oh, what? this will be the first bike in history not to be able to have a custom pipe? Where's the advantage of buying American. Is there an up side? This is going to improve sales. They sell you this bike buy showing the bike on the track. Buy showing you video's of professional racers evaluating the bike on well known tracks. In my opinion, the first bikes wouldn't run right on the street, but balls out on the track it seems as if they were at home. Oh, but wait, "you can't actually do any of this that we are showing you. Its just for marketing." I bought this bike mainly to take to the track. Sold my sports car and bought a truck to transport it. I'm not wealthy man and I work a lot so it happens slowly. I'm too old to do it professionally but I would still like to do it. So I can't even buy the GP Shifter Kit if I wanted it? Or is it just the ECM that they are being so nerdy with. I wonder if it has to do Rotax some how? Man I hope this isn't how it's going to go. sorry, it struck a nerve. | ||
| Id073897 |
Bottom line, yes, rules and regulations are needed but from what I've been told and seen regarding the race ecu's access...something is just not right. That may all be true, but I don't see a reason why racing seems possible with a no-remapable Kwak, but not with a no-remapable Buell? And if it's all done to remap for a new muffler, then IMO it's the manufacturer's task to provide the tools needed, and not the driver's. (Message edited by id073897 on November 15, 2008) | ||
| Slypiranna |
hmmmm...good point Id073897. I still question why only certain one's are being "gifted" access when the list of rules are open to all? It is possible to race with a stock ecu...the majority are. That is not the point, nor is an exhaust, intake or any other mod the point. The race ecu from BMC is available, it's been advertised and obviously is an option to those that can meet the criteria. (Message edited by slypiranna on November 15, 2008) | ||
| Slypiranna |
Duggram, Best of wishes man, I really hope you stick with Buell and the 1125 and find great success in your racing efforts. Sorry if I stole your thread this morning...I'm giving it back now! LOL Good luck!  | ||
| Smoke |
sending Henry your race results for the year may help your case. Best of luck!! tim | ||
| Duggram |
Thanks for the comments. I'm not insterested in a Kwak, whatever that is. If you mean Kawi, then that was a race setup Kawasaki belonging to my mentor that he let me ride at the track. I'm thinking about the new R1.  | ||
| 01xjbuell |
What about track day use? My bike was running dangerously lean @ high RPM. Especially during sessions where I would run back 2 back. Seems like Bear was right... I would have gladly paid the price of entry in order to tune my bike for the harsher conditions of the track vs the street. Its not a Rotax issue b/c my friends with Aprilia's have NO problems getting any number of "race" parts for their bikes. I was on the fence w/ getting this bike, an Ape or a Duck... I love being different and stayed w/ Buell after having an XB12SS. Simply put i'm afraid of taking this bike back to the track running so lean. I just wish Buell would start taking care of the people who took the plunge on an all new design, especially the little guys trying to help BUELL make a name for themselves on ALL levels. Whatever happened to race it on the weekend, ride it to work Monday. C'mon Buell, step up for us. | ||
| Citified |
Its things like this that make me hope harley drops buell and Eric spends the rest of his life designing shift linkage for fatboys. | ||
| Schmitty |
I race the CCS Midwest Cup and I see Henry at the track from time to time. He is a reasonable man. If you can prove to him the legitimacy of you organization, I'm sure it won't be a problem. You have to see things from BMC's point of view. If they just start selling the track only ECM to anybody they're gonna have the government and the EPA so far up their a** you won't know where one ends and the other begins. Look what happened to Powercommander in California. They have to be somewhat skeptical when someone says "I need this for the track," and they're only running track days. I know you have a legit race only bike, but most of those bikes are street bikes with taped up lights. How many of these guys are gonna take that ECM out on Monday before they ride the bike to work? Just be patient and reasonable! Buell Racing is the ONLY major manufacturer to give this kind of support to club level racers. Try calling the Racing Director at HRC in Japan! Let me know how that goes. Don't worry I'll sit here and wait......Nothing, that's what I thought! Buell is only trying to cover their ass. Give it time, you'll get the help you need. Schmitty | ||
| Davegess |
Guys relax, I suspect it is a very simple matter of the race organization contacting Henry and getting the paperwork straight. There is likely a list that has "certified" racing organizations and this one is not on it. Buell and H-D have taken a lead on the issue of race only parts. They are following the rules unlike many others. If companies fail to follow the rules then th egovernmetn will get more draconian in the enforcement of these rules and everyone will suffer. It is simply not legal to sell race parts to people to use on their street bikes. Period. No gray areas etc. If you as an individual want to modify your bike to a not legal state that is your business but a company like Buell could face millions of dollars in fines if they don't make reasonable efforts to sell race parts only to racers. Buell is actually ahead of H-D on this I THINK. They are pretty adamant that the bikes as sold are very god street bikes and making them louder or dirtier is not a good thing. | ||
| Court |
Easy fix. There has never been a motorcycle company IN HISTORY that has been more supportive of the little guy. Citified, you should be ashamed of the way you talk . . . and spell. The race deal can be cured. The manners likely not. | ||
| Lecanadysbcglobalnet |
Buell has asked us to be patient while they tune on the design at our expense, the dealers were expected to do the same, with little support tech support (except those few dealers that have Mech 's & services guys that are buell fans & keep up with it on their own ) All, while across the country the Beull logo is disappearing from new dealer and dropped by old that find used HD's are a far better use of dealer dollars available to invest in a highly popular brand and not on an obscure oddly designed bike that that appeals to a very narrow buying subset. All that on top of your flagship, best of the best design, that you plan to be the future power plant platform, can’t be tuned by anyone but the .001 of that already obscure subset, YES THIS IS WHERE I WANT MY DOLLARS INVESTED. Sign me up, oh yeah I all ready did. This sounds like the insurance company or some executive came down on Henry for being what they believe to be, too loose with the race criteria and he has acted by over tightening the rule. If this is of his own doing, that's a hole other issue. What ever the case we need to make sure all concerned understand the gravity of the this problem. I can't imagine Buell has gained market share with the introduction of a bike that is junk to ride out of the box (my espouser and all that know me only) If Eric Buell understands, than I bet this will get corrected but if not, my 2nd choice an 08 CBR1000 which is a great handling bike with a flat power curve and more power than you'll ever need w/ all the race stuff on the bike, that we have to buy after we spend more, for than that bike comes w/ stock. The CBR is $700 less out the door than a 25R. This is my first exposure too Buell. I've had to be patient while my bike has never been right with clutch issues that make the bike dangerous to ride and parts that literally fall off while riding. We have dealers that don't have a clue on what to do for even the basics, such as How Much Oil to put in the bike ( come on guys really this is a joke) or how to check it once you get it in. Not to mention suspension adjustment. If you can't even get the basic right and now their tightening down on what does work, you kinda have to start asking yourself; Why would new guys like me want to ride much less buy something like this. I get it for tenured Buelly's, who are in it thick or thin, and understand it might take a while to get things worked out, but to survive you have to expand market share or at least maintain or you die. I don't see this heading in the right direction. From a guy that has put his money and time where his mouth is. This is getting old!!! Les | ||
| Imonabuss |
I'll tell you what is getting old, listening to the whiners who pick on one situation to tar and feather Buell. As a retired ex-racer who raced at every level, I can guarantee NO company has been as supportive of the privateer racer than Buell. That's why so many are running Buells in club racing. Ask them. Guys like Steve Slaughter, Joel Spalding, etc. etc. Henry is ONE guy in the US, and he is answering the phone for all of race calls from customers. Don't any of you guys understand how small Buell is? Yes, you can bet they are under pressure from the government, and are trying to keep street squids from running race stuff like loud pipes that piss off non-motorcyclists, while at the same time enabling racers in any way the little company can. It's always the same old axe grinders mouthing off. The 1125R is not junk by any means, and is having race success all over the world in the hands of non-factory teams. Read the freakin' write-ups on the 1125ZCR; the 1125R is the same bike for God's sake! The fuel injection map was off and has been corrected. If you are a licensed racer you can get the race parts. But if Henry doesn't happen to know the organization (which you might have made up), you attack Buell and everyone who works there? Send in your race license copy and some info on the organization, and I'll bet you will get on the list to buy parts. But man, I sure wouldn't want to be in Henry's shoes where a lifetime of hard work and commitment get this level of disrespect. | ||
| Edmbueller |
I normally don't bother getting involved in these threads, however I shall throw my opinion in on this one. I purchased an '08 1125R back in March. I was the first in the province of Alberta. I have put 14,000 kms on and we now have snow on the ground so my season is over. I have experienced every single "known issue" : - Sidestand spring lost twice. - Mirrors folding in at speed - Rough running due to incorrect mapping - Front end "clunk" - 3 rear turn signals - 5th gear recall - 3 reflashes - several safety bulletins. I also have what I believe to be a unit specific MAJOR fault. My engine cases are leaking and my bike will require a complete tear down of the motor to diagnose / repair. I knew going into the dealer to trade my beloved Firebolt on a first run model that I was taking a chance. Regardless of the brand name, first run of ANYTHING is never perfect. If you bought one actually expecting perfection, get your head outta your ass. These small inconveniences have all been solved by a quick trip to my dealer. Yes dealer support is lackluster pretty much across the board, my dealership included, but BMC can not control the individual ownerships. This by far is the most FUN I have ever had on two wheels in my 20 years of riding. The bike is capable, agile, nimble, and just makes me giggle every time I ride it... I would do it again in a heartbeat. That being said I would like to see some sort of "reward" from BMC for us 08'ers that guinea pigged for them! rant off | ||
| Xb9 |
Mapping can be done now without the factory software, on a stock 1125r ECM. If your looking for the ability to just remap (spark and fuel) I'll have something very soon, to be used in conjunction with some existing free software without all this bull Sh#t. Feel free to PM with questions. (Message edited by xb9 on November 15, 2008) | ||
| Lecanadysbcglobalnet |
Point Taken. The question still remains. I agree with you on the old guy not in age but yrs, have put the time in staying w/ a product, for which I have total respect!!! If you expect guys like myself and others, who are the future of OUR beloved Buell, to be able to continue having Great CS and as great of product, as well as support for race teams and individual racers, you have to have a product that doesn't leave them with such a bad taste in their mouth that they go back and slam that product to everyone they talk to much less buy one. I have yet to ride the bike all have described as the best bike they have ever owned and I own a 25R. Don't be mitaken, am in it in for the long hall and have put my money where my mouth is...and will start track days next year toward getting my racing license. Those who have gone down this path before me, at some time need to be followed by other, our Buell dries up. That is the premise of my frustration. I feel absolutely naked in this deal, just starting down the road you guys have already traveled and it scares the crap out of me to watch all this happen especially watch Buell retracked what is primary starting point to any race bike. Because I'm spending my money to get there I would expect to at least have the ablility to ask the question even if I vent my frustration for paying for a bike I have yet to have at my house for more than a week end waiting for Tuesday to come around. I also think I or the dealer should be able to check the oil level with some level of confidence, do you? Les | ||
| Blake |
What Imonabus said. Those that jump on threads like this not to offer assistance or thoughtful suggestion but only miserable petty personal commentary are really not welcome here. So go away. Citified, that was one very mean and hateful thing to say. Erik Buell is a man of integrity and pasion for his work and for club racers the world over. Regardless of motorcycles or anything else, I consider Erik Buell a friend, and I don't take well to anyone wishing ill upon one of my friends. Lose the petty unfounded bitterness; look to the light, or take a hike. | ||
| Blake |
Duggram, The title of this thread is unfortunate. I understand your disappointment. I don't understand your lack of appreciation for the issue. As has already been suggested, if you would simply provide the necessary documentation, I KNOW that Henry Duga and friends will absolutely do their best to help you succeed in your Buell racing efforts. BadWeB will too. We dig racing. Just ask the Buell racers who collected some $5K plus this past July at Road America, thanks to so many very generous BadWeB race enthusiasts. Or, you could give up and go race an R1. | ||
| Redbuelljunkie |
C'mon guys... we all have seen these reactions here before (most have us have felt them). Cut the guys some slack- how quickly we forget the five stages of grief. Most people post while in stage two- anger. If anyone here has never felt anger about some aspect of their Buell you are definitely in the minority (and damn lucky). It is a well known fact that if a rider lasts thru stage five (acceptance) with their Buell- they are an owner for life. Let's not be too harsh on those blowing off steam- if we piss 'em off even more, they might do something crazy like getting rid of their Buell. If they do that, there's a chance we'll lose them forever. So go easy on 'em, and keep them in the fold. And that's all I have to say about that. -Forrest Gump |
