| Author | Message | ||
     Sheepaholic |
"learned open loop enabled" Does this mean that the ECM is learning via the O2 sensors etc and adjusting accordingly, or just that it is using what it learned in closed loop mode? Or am I way off the mark? | ||
| Zac4mac |
Where do you see that phrase? More info... Z | ||
| Htekwo |
Open loop is used by the ECM in a cold start mode. It uses whatever Map is set in the ECM for fueling. Once the motor warms up, it goes into closed loop which uses the 02 sensor to correct fueling based on what it sees going out the tail pipe. 'Learning' is different. It is usually based on short and long term fuel trims that are stored in the ECM after a period of time. The short term trims (by their name) occur over a relatively short period of time, say after a few minutes of driving. The long term trims occur over a longer period of time and are a slower adjusting trim (like moving from a sea level location to Denver, CO). You might not be moving there permanently and if you do, the ECM will eventually adjust it self. Long, but hope this helps. | ||
| Slypiranna |
This animal uses a little different approach than what we are used to in other fields. The 11 switches back and fourth between OL and CL when parameters are all met. The AFV (Adaptive Fuel Value) function is LEARNED in (mainly from O2 feedback) CL and applied in a +/- percent correction to the Front and Rear BASE MAPS but in OL only. The AFV correction seems to take between 150-200 miles in order to post...although some have voiced a learning ride @ 4k in 3th gear for 3 minutes...many have tried the last method with no proof that it works...but the first one does. Ride it and ride it hard...then recheck your AFV's on the dash after 175 miles or so...if it's needed, they'll adjust accordingly. What it learns is applied to Open Loop only, which is still a lot of the operating moments on any of your rides! Close Loop is entered via many presets but mostly while cruising along in the lower half of the rpm available. There is still a lot to understand of this ecu's functions and many have been and still are working on just that! Again, this system is NOT like what you might think as normal! There is more going on than we yet know. If you take the time to dig in archives...read the "So where do we LEARN" thread. | ||
| Htekwo |
I see. You are right, I was speaking of how OL and CL work in general, car or motorcycle. I run a standalone ECU on my turbo car and I can adjust for Open and Closed loop conditions or have it go into open loop at an RPM or KPa (manifold pressure understood as 'load'). I can also control the amount of correction that it has +/- over the base Map. I assume the 1125 ECM is doing the same thing but on it's own  | ||
| Slypiranna |
I'm not right...just learning!!!!!!  The long term fuel trims spoken of here might just be related to that 150-200 mile deal? Kinda similar but still a lot different. We've got almost a years worth of understanding down now and I predict it will take only 6 months more to really put this one to bed! Many are working on this...many. As a comparison, a race ecu is babyfood to most of us and many of us can understand what it takes to program control and/or to manipulate control...the stock DDFI III is above unique and not so easy to digest! | ||
| Xb9 |
Parameter: Open Loop Learn enable Disable for racing without closed loop function (No 02 sensors) Enable for street use with closed loop function (with 02 sensors) | ||
| Slypiranna |
There he is!  | ||
| Zac4mac |
There needs to be a button on the dash to refresh that one. "Enter learn mode" BTW, been trying my 3rd gear/4k rpm with no joy since re-flash. Running very well, but still at 100/100 after 400 miles+. Very frustrating. Z | ||
| Doerman |
Zac (or anybody else) Why are the AFVs important? I thought you told us that Loretta ran just marvelously after the reflash with all the promised features: - no studdering/shuddering at low RPM - better fuel mileage - lower running temps I have never looked at the AFVs on mine and I don't understand why they are important when the bike runs fine. I don't believe an Anony has chimed in to tell us the significance of the AFV numbers either. It is entirely possible that I might have missed that. I am not trying to pick at you, just trying to understand. Asbjorn | ||
| Zac4mac |
Asbjorn I expect that AFV of 100/100 is referenced to a sea-level setting. Since Loretta ran well at S/L at 100/100 and rough at home, Smooth at home at 94.5/94.5 and rough at S/L, I also expect her to run even smoother once she adjusts now. I'm not obsessing on it, I check the AFV 2-3 times a week to see if there's any change and enjoy the rides the rest of the time. Just enjoying an amazing bike that keeps getting better the longer I ride it. Z | ||
| Id073897 |
Open loop learn enables the ECM to increase AFV after exceeding a given limit of consecutive lean O2 readings in the OL region above the CL region. Regards, Gunter | ||
| Slypiranna |
And there he is too! Perfect timing Gunter! Give it up... What is the count?! We are experiencing a mileage reading of 150-200 miles after mods being made before the AFV responds. This is now proven on many 2008 1125Rs with mainly, external engine modifications to the inlet and the exhaust. We are TRYING to keep our hands off the stock ecu and find the combination that best allows the stock window of corrections.../8-10% increase in AFV's. Early reports show the 09's acting a little different but we'll get to those later. The one's overshooting to the 115% AFV's are out of range/control. +8 to +10% @ sea level (adjust for elevation based upon the percentage) seems the best target given the controls and equipment. Is there ANY way to speed the AFV learning process up? WITHOUT touching the actual mapping...how can we force the F & R AFV/OL percentile for instant feedback? Again, each single modification test that we have done means that we have to ride it for 150-200 miles before understanding our results. Very costly in time. We are trying to understand what is already in place before just throwing it out the window in favor of non emission compliant programming. After all, many of us have to live by certain rules that can't be gotten around.  | ||
| Bob_thompson |
I still believe that some kind of power programmer is sorely needed to even adjust to minor modifications such as a K&N filter or new muffler as I have done. ECM has adjusted somewhat but I believe it could be better. I think my muffler system is close to stock with air flow but I still cannot tune to specific rpm ranges. I will probably use the stock muffler until an inexpensive, maybe a few hundred dollars, ECM programmer is available. I do love the sound of mine though. Too bad. Darn EPA. Outlaw Bob responding here. | ||
| Bigeasy |
107 / 93.5 afv on mine. Saron pipe and k&n filter. I live in New Orleans below sea level. Also have had none of the new reflashes yet. I will most likely get the latest one when I bring it back to fix the clutch for the second time. Less heat and better fuel mileage would be nice. But I also like the way it runs now. | ||
| Dhdjr |
I'm @ 115.5 front & 100 rear w/ D&D pipe. Dealer says to park it & wait for tuner (NO help there!) Thought about the remus powerizer but don't think it will help closed loop. Bad 02 sensor possible on rear cylinder??? I sold the stock pipe before realizing I had a situation DAMM |
