| Author | Message | ||
     Mikej |
I don't mean to make light of tragic events with that title, but when someone says we are ethnocentric and only look at events that only directly affect us and yet show no sympathy for other events such a what happened in Bali then I have to wonder if that speaker is not guilty of the same. Stuff is happening all over the world on a daily basis, and each of us individually have selective focus on which events we see. Case in point: Currently there are several hundred people held hostage by potentially suicidal people in a theater in Moscow: link. This story, though extremely potentially tragic, has been pushed to the second page of many news sites. Just because we don't seemingly openly express concern or sympathy does not mean we are self-focused. If you try to have a totally global vision you will not have time to even drink a cup of coffee. | ||
| Whatever |
Mike, It is days like these I think I will never have children. The world is a beautiful and a terrible place. This morning I was driving into work before sunlight in the V10 pickup we have at our office and the tall pine trees swayed slightly in the breeze with all the snow piled on them. Only two deer seen on the way in and did not spot a bald eagle out on the land I was working on yesterday (which does happen roughly 30% of the time). The sunlight hits the tops of the gold and brown now fading trees and it looks like God came down and kissed the earth right where I exist. And a multinational mining corporation has been fighting the smallest poorest Native American tribe in the state of Wisconsin to destroy one of the most beautiful and mystical places on earth. Only I am here, soaking it all in one day at a time, while it still lasts. Yesterday we were covered in thick black mud trying to get a water sample on Rice Lake on the Res when a wooden paddle broke in our canoe. I was cursing up a shit storm, and laughing my ass off at the same time. Most of us in America have no idea how 80% of the worl'ds population lives. I have an inkling having traveled to rural Africa twice in college, but I always knew I had something to come back to. Sometimes injustice lives in our own back yard, in our own State Government and those who live in the 'third world' inside and outside our country are hanging on by their fingernails trying to survive. Want to know more? Look up Midwest Treaty Network on the internet and it will tell the Ojibway, Menominee and Potawotami story... OK, enough said Charlotte | ||
| Mikej |
Charlotte, A few semesters ago one of my professors was Ojibwe (probably still is since reading that makes it sound past-tense). My term paper was titled: Treaty Rights and Sovereignty. I do know more.  | ||
| Whatever |
Mike, Very cool. E-mail me a copy of this paper if you can find it. Charlotte | ||
| Blastin |
Bigger, Better, Faster, More..... Isn't that the new slogan of the world? Charlotte, I'm sort-a-kinda from your neck of the woods. My parents are in Eagle River. My dad grew up in Crandon and Eagle River and I have spent much time up that way. Reading your description of yesterday morning was way cool. I'll even take the liberty of adding to it. I bet as soon as you got to your destination and shut off the truck and started walking a bit it was almost absolutely silent with only the forest noises and even those were muted by that heavy wet snow. I'm way jealous right now. I can relate on the broken paddle thing as well. Only I had to use a canoe paddle to go across 1 1/2 lakes with 5 people in a ski boat.  Jerry | ||
| Mikej |
Oh shoot, now I'm in trouble, ... I'll rummage around the disk drive at home and see if I can find it. The paper was more of a synopsis than really revealing though, but will do if I can. The whole concept of Nations within a Nation is interesting. And an old Indian trick for you, carry a spare paddle. That black mud is hard to get out of clothes. | ||
| Whatever |
Blastin, As I am looking out the window here at Mole Lake, the tall pine trees are dead still. The sun is shining and that crisp bit of snow is just barely clinging to the branches. The only sound out here is the silence... and the snow melting. Mikej, Cell phones are wonderful little gadgets. Of course my co-worker went right past us in all the cat-tails and his boss said, 'He will figure it out'... I am turning this mother off here (my computer) speaking of bosses... I think he is coming back in a few hours and I might want to get at least something done. Ciao' Charlotte PS Visit anytime in God's country...  | ||
| Rocketman |
Mike, if ANYONE attacks America or ANY of her people, it's on this board, period ! Not so Bali, until I brought it up as a reference regarding nationalistic attitudes by some posters on this board , and not as you say, ethnocentric behaviour. Jeez, I had to look that up in the dictionary. Rocket  | ||
| Ferris |
Charlotte, your vivid words bring tears to my eyes, both of joy, and of sadness. thank you. FB | ||
| Whatever |
Ferrits Bueller, You are welcome. I was begining to think this board was full of Republicans! Check out websites search 'No Crandon Mine'. Charlotte | ||
| Mikej |
Sean/Rocket, What's to prevent you yourself from posting something about these things when they happen to bring it to the site user's attentions? If you sit and wait for someone else to say something that you know about and then complain that nobody did, then you are the one who didn't as well. Like I said here or somewhere else, there's too much stuff going on to keep track of everything. Lead by example my friend. Take care. The world is about to go thru a major hurt and we all have to work together towards a resolution. Rainy and cold here today, maybe I'll go for a ride later and pretend I'm in England. . Always wanted to visit there, maybe next year. ps, there are several Americans in that theater in Moscow currently under seige, and probably a few Brit's in there as well. I sincerely hope the captives make it out alive, but I fear otherwise due to the history of the captors. | ||
| Rocketman |
Mike I understand what you're saying , which is why I responded to your comment. It's really as I explained, other than that, I hate to start those kinda sentiments. Something inside me tells me not to be the first, maybe in fear of sounding a little to sincere. Not to offend though X Rocket | ||
| Ferris |
Check out websites search 'No Crandon Mine' Charlotte, i took your advice and have spent the last 45 minutes or so trying to get an overview of the Crandon Mine proceedings. can you briefly explain what your involvement with the mine is, and where you stand on the issue? FB | ||
| Whatever |
Ferrits, Could ping you with details early next week. Charlotte | ||
| Nevco1 |
Charlotte... I too checked out the websites concerning the Crandon Mine project and can see where it could devastate the existing commercial and tourism industries up there as well as creating another "Love Canal" that just happens to contribute to the aquifer supplying Southern Wisconsin's well water. Not to mention the effect on the Wolf River. I remember the negative effect the Paper Mills once had on the area. Additionally, the Little John Bircher in me says "NO" to foreign mining corporations. Please post your commentary on the board or include me in your response to Ferris' request. My email address is on my profile. God Bless...You Little Tree Hugger, Bill | ||
| Whatever |
I'm back, What a sad sad day in Moscow. Seeing some of the footage on NBC last night gave me a good mix of depression (reminding me of the Holocaust) and gratitude (that I can live in relative peace and freedom here in the US). Give the FBI and the Armed Forces AND Bush (as much as I don't like him) some credit and thanks. All, The zinc and copper deposit was 'discovered' just south of Crandon in 1985 by Exxon geophysicists flying reconassence over the area. The Ojibway traditionalists have always known of its presence, respected it and revered it. The first multinational corporation (Exxon) started exploration in the area and a mining permit application around that time. The Oil Companies that have followed: Rio Algom, Broken Hill Proprietors (BHP) and Billiton... have estimated a 5 BILLION dollar PROFIT on the mine if ever developed. The price to be paid by local farmers, fishermen, hunters, Native Americans and all those in the Wolf River/ Fox Valley basin as well as all those who frequent the area (Chicagoans and Madisonians as well as any other tourists) has always been known by most reasonable people to be very very high. Sportfishers and local residents along with the Ojibway Bands, Potawotami and Menominee Nations have formed a coalition to fight against the permit ever being approved. One mile downstream from the proposed SUPERFUND SIZED TOXIC WASTE DUMP is the Sokaogon Chippewa Community (my employer) also known as the Mole Lake Band of Lake Superior Chippewa. They have battled long and hard the Federal Government to secure their homelands as an Indian Reservation held in trust by the United States Government (a whole 'nother entire fascinating story). What they have accomplished in the Environmental Justice arena is nothing short of PHENOMENAL. They had their own Water Quality Standards approved by the US EPA roughly eight years ago to ensure the highest level of protection available for the surface water and ground water in and on the reservation. The waters are all very connected to a pristine ecosystem supporting the Wild Rice (Manomoomin sp.?) subsistence culture they have sustained for thousands of years. Anything disturbing the rice beds, such as a tremendous dewatering of the aquifer in the area would not only wipe out the ecosystem but also the cultural and spiritual way of life for these people... THEIR VERY EXISTENCE... The Water Quality Standards have been challenged by the 'fat cats' who run our state government and want the tax money for their little corrupt pot of funds. More technical issues I could discuss privately. Feel free to ping me... Check out www.mtn.org for details on the permit, the battle and the treaty rights issues. Ride While You Can! Charlotte PS I work on the technical side of data gathering and water quality standards. | ||
| Whatever |
Also, An excellent book to get an overview of the global politics involved in this issue is this: Resource Rebels by Al Gedicks Available online at Amazon.com. It has a few chapters on the Mole Lake situation that are very well done. Char | ||
| Nevco1 |
Charlotte, Thank you for the information. It is as I suspected from the overviews I read. Another delicate ecosystem and economic system in jeopardy. Originally, being on well water with what is reported to be Lake Superior (heavy iron) water, the Aquifer issue with the Cyanide dumping had me concerned. The impact on tourism was another issue considered, but I had no idea that it would effect my supply of wild rice, probably cranberries too. Dang, now I have to write Madison and Washington. Thanks, Bill | ||
| Ferris |
Charlotte, the battles you're involved with make my problems seem rather insignificant by comparison. there's enough money to be made via the Crandon Mine that it's no wonder the big companies are fighting so hard. and there's enough devastation to be wreaked that it's no wonder folks are fighting back. this nation has a history of treating Native Americans poorly, and i'm pleased to see the tribes (is it ok to use that term?) you mention using the "system" in their effort to halt the wheels of "progress". one of the best non-fiction books i've ever read is called "Hanta Yo", by Ruth Beebe Hill. in essence, it recounts the disastrous results of the first encounters between the Lakotah Sioux and white men. it's a tough read for the first 100 pages or so, then you CANNOT put it down. and you cannot help but cry. please tell your Native American friends that they have a new friend in southern California. is there some way i can help? best, FB | ||
| Rocketman |
Charlotte, that's a fascinating story, and a scenario in which we should all strive to sustain. It's refreshing to know that some people indeed do. Rocket | ||
| Whatever |
Hey, There are lots of things to do to help. One is to make a donation to the Indegenous Environmental Network. Another is to make a donation to Midwest Treaty Network. If you are in the Midwest you can get on the bandwagon with writing BHP/ Billiton executives (see www.mtn.org)... hey even if you are on the other side of the world. They have their companies stationed in South Africa and Australia and shareholder awareness is a really big issue. There were people with 'Stop Crandon Mine' posters at a shareholders meeting in Australia last year. Would have to do some digging to find some contacts on those topics. No photos on the net for now, would not want X1 to 'Cream in his Jeans'  ha ha ha ha haaaaa. Having some technical difficulties with photos, but may try to scan one today at lunch. Charlotte PS Ferrits: you may live where it is warm, but I live with miles and miles of twisting uninhabited pristine forest roads out of my back door. I am doing what I can to keep it that way AND getting paid for it. BTW everyone needs a friend sometime. | ||
| Mikej |
"...the tribes (is it ok to use that term?) " I've heard them referred to as "the Nations" as many of them see themselves as Nations within a Nation, which legally they are. Did you know that when you enter a res that you are functionally somewhat entering a different country, similar to entering Canada or Mexico? There are parameters and over-riding conditions and protections and controls, but functionally you are legally entering a different country when entering reservation lands. Depending on who you talk to and on how the local treaty was written you may even right now be living in a different country but where the land is legally recognized as the United States of America even though the underlaying deedship is under other final ownership. I still think the Yakima can demand that certain dams be torn down as their construction was a breech of contract and treaty, but that will probably never happen in our lifetimes. Oops, wrong classroom, gotta go. ... and gotta find that paper I wrote | ||
| X1glider |
No photo necessary Charlotte, I don't need to know what you look like to socialize with you. Same reason I don't post mine. Freak magnet! Besides I've moved on to my librarian! I'll be a freak on SacBORG. I'll continue to listen to your wisdom as I had done with my redheaded Canadian ex-gf who has her PhD in Geophysics. Fascinating stuff. | ||
| Whatever |
Yes, I am actually working on the photo. I can handle myself. Does your ex teach now? I dreamed of being a Geophysicist most of my childhood and then... the third semester of Calculus at Duke University almost killed me. Or maybe it was the combination of alcohol consumption and math? Anyhow, started graduate school TWICE in Structural Geology... loved the field work... went to Africa twice to field map... but hated the math. Now it has come back to haunt me in the form of statistics at work. Damn I wish I hadn't slept through so many classes in college. Now the only drug I do is caffiene... which is actually an entire 'nother thread. Gotta go, Charlotte PS Fantasies are just easier to deal with than REALITY, cause reality comes back to bite you in the ass every now and then. | ||
| X1glider |
Yes she teaches at U of Calgary still. She refuses to actually get a real job and I can't blame her, she gets something like 12 weeks off and goes to conferences around the world. The fact that I was into dinosaurs as a child enabled me to actually understand what the hell she was talking about. Even my music background surprised her when she wanted to talk about sound propogation. I'll have to put up a pic of myself sometime too, if I find one with me in it. | ||
| Whatever |
Guys, Tribe does work in most cases, just as Indian works as well, even though it has nothing to do with India but Columbus' stupidity when he landed here and the Indians discovered him, or was that Vespucci? Anyhow, to keep up on Native American issues check out indianz.com. NPR does a good piece on Native American News as well and I sometimes get when I am leaving work. The Ojibway consider their communities Bands of the same Tribe. I know a little,not a lot... but learning more all the time. Fascinating stuff. Mikej, You are correct to an extent on the First Nations jurisdictional issues. It is a little more complicated than that, though. Many of the smaller tribes (Mole Lake) do not have the same kind of law enforcement infrastructure as the larger tribes (Menominee Nation or Navajo Nation) but they do have the legal power to enforce their laws. And they do. In the Mole Lake case it is the water laws (Water Quality Standards) which have gotten some national attention. If someone tells me how to post a link on the board I will put several on here that I have mentioned. Charlotte PS The OPINIONS expressed here are strictly those of the person who gave them, do not take anything that I say to be what any other person or Tribe or organization endorses.  | ||
| Rocketman |
Charlotte, To link to a URL, in a new window, with a text description............. \ newurl{ URL, text description} note, there should be no space between the backslash and 'newurl' word. I did that above so as you could see how I wrote it. Once you have entered ALL of the URL inside the { } enter a comma and then write YOUR description, still inside the { }. Simple eh ? Rocket | ||
| Mikej |
Charlotte, Just copy and paste the links into the message window if you just want to do it quick, then we can copy and paste as needed. If you really want to know how to live-link it then read thru sections of the BBS Formatting on the left menu bar of the site here assuming your viewing window is set up similar to mine. Basically you just type in a backslash \ then the word newurl then the left squiggly bracket { then paste in your link's address followed by a comma, then a word or more to title the link and then follow it all up with a closing squiggly bracket } and don't add in any spaces except for the text after the comma and before the closing squiggly bracket. Simple, eh? Uh, better to read the instructions. | ||
| Mikej |
Hey, that's what I just said, only in more words, and I used a comma between Simple and eh?. Small world, and extreamly scarey at times. | ||
| Whatever |
OK will do some searching here and paste some in there in a little bit. Thanks, C | ||
| Whatever |
Check these out here: Indigenous Environmental Network Midwest Treaty Network Sokaogon Chippewa Community Rock and Roll !!!  Back to work, Charlotte | ||
| Rocketman |
Hey Mike, LOL Rocket | ||
| Whatever |
The USEPA website is far and away the best one I have seen yet. Very informative and kept up to date well. USEPA Crandon Mine | ||
| Whatever |
Henrik, I am not sure if you are a fan of Karen Blixen... I guess most Danes are... This might interest you. Apparently her father lived up here with the Mole Lake Band of Lake Superior Chippewa in the late 19th century. The Mole Lake tourism staff are trying to restore the log cabin he lived in and turn it into a museum so the Danes can come over here and see how he lived. Wilhelm Dinesen was quite a prolific guy while here also... he has decendants in the tribe (The Ackleys) who comprise one of the main families that are in the tribal government. Richard Ackley Jr. was here yesterday getting really excited about this project (again). If you want to know more, his e-mail is on this website too. I find it pretty interesting and I hope you do too. Enjoy! Danes in Ojibway Country Charlotte | ||
| Whatever |
Henrik, Also, If you have anyone 'back home' in Denmark that is really interested in this stuff, would you please pass the information on as Richard needs to start making more contacts over there... Thanks so much! Charlotte |
