| Author | Message | ||
     Redscuell |
I've ridden 2 Hondas ~10,000 kms each, shifting up without using the clutch and with zero problems resulting. The first was a 250, the current one a 750; both mid-Eighties bikes. Now that my 1125r is due to arrive, I'm interested to know the Board members' experiences in that regard, 1125 or otherwise? Perhaps the slipper clutch makes a difference in the equation for the 1125. | ||
| Zac4mac |
Upshifting without clutch is smooth for gears 4,5 &6. 3rd can be a little tough. Downshifting, a tiny blip of the throttle, relax and drop it in. I don't like taking my hands off the heated grips when it's colllllddd. Z | ||
| Jdugger |
> Perhaps the slipper clutch makes a difference in the equation for the 1125. Not related. The "slipper" clutch on the 1125r is actually just the throttle body vacuum slighly disengaging the clutch causing it to slip as if you were in the friction zone. To upshift without the clutch on the 1125r: 1. While on the gas, put modest upshift pressure on the shifter. 2. Blip close (or reduce) the throttle. Bike will upshift smoothly. 3. Gas! Smile! Repeat! Downshifting isn't as smooth, in my opinion, and I usually clutch that to avoid popping the rear wheel. The transmission in the 1125r is really something. It's so smooth and so nice to use. | ||
| 2yldbuells |
Clutch?? What clutch?? I use the clutch for starting in 1st gear and never again until i stop... Up and Down... It's like Silk.. | ||
| Carbonbigfoot |
I've played with it enough to be comfortable executing shifts clutchless, even on the upper gears on my XB, but it still just creeps me out... R | ||
| Xnoahx |
Ive done clutchless upshifts on the bike at 10,500 RPM at one of the inside pass events. Worked like a champ. | ||
| Brent1125russ |
I use the clutch for starting and stopping, that's about it. This is one of the best shifting transmissions I have ever had the pleasure of shifting. As long as you are in in the appropriate RPM vs. MPH range for the shift, you shouldn't have any issues going up or down. | ||
| Pyrateryderzmc |
I have done clutch-less shifting before myself, but these engines and transmissions were designed with a clutch in mind. Tested, tried and true, so it just seems odd that one would shift without one. | ||
| 1_mike |
""I have done clutch-less shifting before myself, but these engines and transmissions were designed with a clutch in mind."" The above is an interesting but strange statement. And how do you know this? You were around during its design? Since I've also been a non-clutch user for my last four bikes, when I went on the demo ride on the "R" a month or so ago, after "remembering" to use the clutch for the first few shifts, I forgot and went back to my non-clutch shifting for all gears. Zero problem, felt very natural and smooth, both up and down shifts. Since it wasn't my bike, I tried to remember to use the clutch as much as possible in our 45 or so minute ride. Mike} | ||
| 2yldbuells |
Of course I also shift my Miata and Jeep without the Clutch. The clutch in my understanding is designed to separate the motor from the tire so the motor will run while the bike is stopped and to enable along with synchronizers the operator to be able to shift without knowledge of engine and gear speeds. An Electronic power shifter just "blips" the throttle so you can shift under full power without using the clutch. (this is typically done by momentarily killing the ignition "spark" while the gear change happens). I just consider myself a low budget power shifter. Upon speaking with my Buell racing team friends they mention that under "Extreme" down shifting the 1125r does not have a true slipper clutch and uses the "vacuum assisted" slipper to help with rear wheel traction - So I quickly went for a ride and confirmed the extreme downshifts needed to upset the rear wheel and I had to to about 100mph in 4th and immediately downshift to 3rd with no clutch to get any chatter at all. ( using the clutch gave a smooth predictable "burning up my clutch slipping action and odor" BTW. My smile was bigger with the tire skipping and chattering.... I folowed this test up with a quick series of power wheelies shifting into 2nd and predictable near vertical stoppies at the stoplights. (all testing was performed in closed controlled safe conditions by professional riders).... Yeah Right. Me in downtown McLean Va... Just my experience.  | ||
| Chevycummins |
I must just be a chicken! I always use my clutch on my bikes and cars. When I get trans jobs on manuals I can usually tell if the customer uses the clutch or not by what parts are worn out and where the parts are worn, bent or broken. When shifting without the clutch and at the wrong RPM it may still shift into gear but it will stress the syncro, gears and cause excessive wear to the shift forks and the nylon on the ends of the forks. I've also had some bent shift forks. The parts are really light weight and really don't tolerate much abuse. I play it safe and use the clutch. No clutch=$$$ | ||
| 1_mike |
Chevy - IF...done correctly...NO harm will come to anything! Been there. If you think about it...as "2yldbuells" sorta says... Shifting includes lightening or eliminating the load from the gear teeth and engagement dogs. When a "normal" shift takes place, the clutch is disengaged so there is no connection between the engine and trans. Backing off the throttle...does the exact same thing (when done properly). It lightens the load on the engine/trans connection. Only this method does its work inside the trans. So....in reality...when using both the clutch lever AND the throttle...the person at the controls is being redundant...or is effecting basically the same situation or outcome...twice. I've gotten over 105,000 miles on the original clutch on a past bike (90 FZR 1000)...not using the clutch during most up or down shifts. Um...also there was no change in shift performance, noting shift forks or engagement dog problems. My current R1 has a little over 90,000 miles so far and the same can be said as above. My short cruise on the 1125R pretty much says that the Rotax trans. can take the "abuse" very easily! Mike | ||
| Chevycummins |
If you were to drive a vehicle that has no syncros on any gears you would notice that you have to increase rpms between gears to downshift and decrease rpms between gears to upshift. Letting off the throttle will only help get you out of the current gear (unload the gears) but it will not make the next gear engagement speeds match so they will mesh without grinding. That's the job of the syncro and when the syncro is trying to change engine speed or vehicle speed because the clutch has not been disengaged it will cause more wear. The syncro was designed to be able to change gear speed to mesh them without grinding but when the clutch is still engaged the syncro is forced to change the engine speed as well. This just causes more wear when the speeds of the gears are not matching while trying to shift. When a syncro gets worn and the trans starts to grind in one gear while shifting you would be surprised to see how hard it is to shift without grinding that gear. | ||
| Pizzaboy |
i agree with chevycummins. all you are doing, is wearing out the synchros when you do clutchless shifts. i am, however, guilty of clutchless shifting. i do it every once in a while through the higher gears when im cruising and not really powering through gears (6 is a lot of gears to row though!!!), but most of the time i just clutch it. its really not like its a lot of work to pull the clutch lever in on these bikes.. my 1125 is currently at the stealership getting some new rear turn signals and the 5th gear recall among other CEL junk... so ive been rekindling the relationship with my 96 thunderbolt the last 3 weeks. riding a 1125 kind of makes you forget what difficult is when talking about clutch levers. after riding my S2, i have to say to you... suck it up and use the clutch when you can. in the long run, your 1125 will appreciate you shifting it correctly | ||
| Tasmaniac |
Mine shifts smooth through all gears without the clutch quite smoothly but i always clutch on down shifts Regards Brett | ||
| Redscuell |
"all you are doing, is wearing out the synchros when you do clutchless shifts." Ummm, guys, don't worry about wearing out the synchros in your motorcycle transmissions -- there aren't any (synchros, that is). So shifting is like the early automobile transmissions (drove a restored Model A in my youth), wherein even with the clutch you'll need to be careful about matching engine and trans speeds to get them to mesh without clashing. | ||
| Duggram |
So am I hurting my trans when I up shift without a clutch at trackdays? If I use the clutch the front wheel comes off the ground. When not using the clutch everything stays cool and the bike does not become upset. However, I do use the clutch when downshifting. Just can't help myself | ||
| Lecanadysbcglobalnet |
At least you guys have a clutch to use, mines been screwed up since day one!!! Ive had it out of the shop one time for an hr that it worked correctly and man what a bike!!! clutchless is like silk up and down till you get to cornering at speed and want to use that not so generous slipper we all brag about. where's my spell check? I like it alot( should get the R back tonite, and see if they fixed it for real) Les | ||
| Timi |
ARE U GUYS SERIOUS???? Get a life. I've banged gears on every thing I've owned. Camaros, mustangs, all with LOTS of hp! Dirt bikes, 80's, 125's, 250's, gsxrs, cbrs, and the ones u guys may be familiar with... Sportsters! Here it goes...gas,quickly blip throttle and shift at the same time, gas... Repeat! Down, same, just more gas or just use the clutch. Whatever u feel comfortable with. Just don't take this shifting thing too seriously. If it feels right... Do it, if not, don't!! You will only probally only break your pride if u do it wrong. Peace out, shift Mc-shifter.. Be safe fellow sqiuds, er, houligans! | ||
| Slypiranna |
"sqiuds" ? | ||
| Timi |
Don't know what a squid is????????? Any one??? Its a knuckle head, gear banging, wheelie poping, stopie grabbing, WRONG attention grabbing (ie:cops), showoff, who has NO respect 4 YOU or another, let alone themselves. (bad defenition). Good deff= hot rodder who shows off. Wining a race noone else is even entered! Seriously, I thought EVERYONE knew what a "squid" was. But now they're known in "this" modern lingo, houligan or stunter. Its a GOOD thing now...I guess... | ||
| Paint_shaker |
During an Inside Pass track day, the lead instructor explained clutchless upshifting in technical, but elementary terms and it really made sense. So I learned how to clutchless upshift on an 1125r. Seemed really natural when done right. Works good on the XB at the track too! | ||
| Zac4mac |
I think Sly was offended at any inclusion in a group of "squids". We know what they are and generally dislike the behavior. I think the fine line of distinction has the "Hooligans" being a little more sensible than "Squids". BTW, it was 39 degrees on the ride home last night. All my shifts after 2nd, up and down, were clutchless. Hate to let go of that heated grip.... Z | ||
| Timi |
Z4mac yea ur right, squids are the 1%ers who make sport bike riders look like skum! Just ask Mertle Beach police!! And "stunters" under controled areas, make us look like heros! Btw.. 42degrees no clutch either! At least while I was moving. Burrr 80mph-umm windchill apx 0??? Ok mabie 10. No heated h-grips. Not a he man, cold man! Just hate 2 move if I don't have to, cold fingers pulling a clutch suck. Guys as u see, it don't hurt a thing. If u do it proper. Oh. Where can u get some sycro's for my trannie? I think I lost mine! Durring my 3-4 shift..... |
