| Author | Message | ||
     Duggram |
All was going well with my 2nd trackday:  But I was having to be very throttle sensitive to keep the rear tire from spinning. Then I got into the middle of a pack of fast guys. I tried to stay with them in the turns. Big mistake as I laid down about 20 feet of rubber and lowsided. The Corsa 3's may be a great road tire but I'm getting a set of new DOT racing tires for my trackdays. Obviously I don't have the self restraint to stay within the limits of the Corsa 3's.  | ||
| Hammer71 |
Could it possibly be rider error? I've heard nothing but good things about said tires. Either way hope all is ok with you as it's not stated, heal well. | ||
| Jmr1283 |
jeeze u alright? it must be nice to have a actually in action photo. hows the bike? | ||
| Duggram |
Hammer, like I said in my post I don't have the self restraint to feather the throttle and not spin the tire. It's definitely rider error. The 1125 loves to spin the tire mid second gear coming out of corners. The solution for me is to get race tires. I'm okay save for a few rug burns. I have the whole series of photos from this point on. Bikes ok. Pods a mess, tail and nose got scraped. Not a problem though | ||
| Patrickmitchell |
DC IIIs are a great track day tire.... sorry. I run them on my Triumph 675 track day bike. NESBA and TPM sell tons of them every week (check the tire threads on their boards). Run them at 30 psi hot and they work great. They heat up in two laps and last me 4-5 track days. They are predictable and wear like iron. Race tires are great if you are racing. They last about one track day, maybe two if you are easy on tires. They requirer warmers and very few track day riders can get the benefit out of them to justify the extra cost. If you are race pace rider, they are sticker and faster. | ||
| Jmr1283 |
im glad u and ur bike came out okay. are u goin to go to slicks? | ||
| No_rice |
i have done a couple track days on my corsa 3's. yes the 1125 can over power them, but you CAN over power any tire if you are being a little ham fisted. dont take that as a specific jab at you or anything im just saying no tire will correct everything. that being said i have been knee down with the ass end a fair ways out a few times coming through the corners. the first time was spookey. the other times i just wish someone would pay attention and grab some pics! lol. for a street tire they are damn good though. i have heat cycled mine to many times way to hard and they are getting a little slick. plus i have ground the lip off of the sidewall. it doesnt have much stick when you are running on that part. the front end tries to slide out from under you and you have to pick the bike back up with your knee. i learned that at black hawk! i am planning on having a different set of rims with race rubber on for next seasons track days. | ||
| Slaughter |
Ow ow OWWW! Glad it came out OK (kinda) for you and the bike. Stickier tires can help a little but I'd think that spending $370 for 2 days starts getting pricey - compared to having a track instructor spotting you for turning, throttle, braking, shifting and body position. I can overpower slicks on the XB with "only" 97HP. It's a combination of the right wrist and rate of turn (lean angle), body position, tire pressures, heat, suspension... not just tire choices. DOT race tires - couldn't hurt (except the wallet) - but DON'T think that'll solve the sliding issue. I've watched Shawn Higbee get THROWN up and out of the saddle during a near high-side racing at Willow - and he's on slicks and a stock motor. | ||
| Duggram |
$370, I have a good sponsor. She doesn't mind the price it they help. The real problem is me as I've said from the beginning of this thread. This was my second time on the track and I got excited. I haven't had any trouble dealing with the tire spin before this. | ||
| Hammer71 |
Try the newer Rosso tires before dumping an assload of cash. Stick is phenominal, heat up fast and hold up well for mileage as well. Glad your doing ok and bike faired pretty well from your reports. | ||
| Xl1200r |
Dug - What kind of pressures were you running? Also, just some constructive critisism, but you could be off the bike a little more - your upper body looks like it isn't hanging off as much as it could. Don't know if that could help. I'm no track expert, but I ran mine at 29 psi cold (never rechecked once hot) and they never slipped on me, even going a little hotter than I should in the first lap or two. (Message edited by xl1200r on October 18, 2008) | ||
| Duggram |
XL, I think you hit the real problem (besides my newness). Last I checked I had 34, front and back. I also know that you're right about the cheek position. Honest, I try to remember to not dirt track the bars. But my whole life (58 years) I've only ridden mostly dirt and some street. Now I'm learning to ride on an asphalt track and it really is different. The experts at the track I go to do their best to tutor me and they do point out that my biggest problem is head on the wrong side of the bars. Next weekend I'm at Sandia in Albuquerque, then back to Arroyo in Deming the next two weekends. My plan is to slow down and work on cheek and head position. I'm also going to get an appropriate tire gauge. | ||
| Xl1200r |
I've been told that 30-32 hot is ideal for the Corsa III, though you're results may differ. I was running a little higher than that but wasn't noticing any slip and they were wearing well, so I let them be. Good to know that you're aware of the body position. Old habbits are hard to break - I rode dirt when I was learning, but never enough to worry about body position or in competition. Good luck with the track days - I'm officially hooked and hope to get in at least 5 next season. I think the most important thing here is to not give up on the tires just yet. I think they're an ideal aggressive street and track day tire, and mine appear to wearing great so far. Try lowering the pressure and get back to us. I know Hammer mentioned the Rossos and he's pleased with them, and another Bueller I know runs them as well (by Hammer's suggestion) and seems to happy so far, but they didn't appear to be getting as hot as the Corsa IIIs on the track when running the same pressure. | ||
| Odinbueller |
Me personally, I LOVE Pirelli Scorpion Syncs for track days & for the street. OK, go ahead & laugh, get it out of your system... OK, now this was at the last track day at the Lightning circuit at NJ Motorsports park;  This is me at turn 7 (FAST 90 degree left hand turn up hill) with stock suspension on my S3T on Pirelli Scorpion Sync tires at 30/32 HOT. I was walking away from XBs with Supercorsa Pro SC2s. Both are great tires. If you want a great all around tire (you have to get used to them on the road, in the wet, and on the track), then I would recommend the Scorpion Syncs. For an all-out track day tire, go with the Dragon Supercorsa Pros at SC2 front & rear. Hope this helps (plus I get to post more pics of me at the track!  ) | ||
| Odinbueller |
Also, look at your suspension. The first pic looks like you have WAY too much compression damping (too much stanchion showing compared to my picture. Sorry, I love that picture!). Before you start changing tires, look into your suspension setup. Here's some advice; - Get your rider "squat" set up. I believe for the Loki chassis you want no more than 30mm of rider squat front & rear. Adjust this with preload ONLY! - Next, put a zip tie on one of your stanchion tubes to gauge how much travel you're using. The higher up on the tube equates to less compression damping. Adjust in 1/4 turns until you get as close to the bottom as possible without hydrolocking the forks. - Finally, gauge your rebound. The only thing I can tell you is that more rebound is better, so you don't want your suspension to rebound slowly. Try a setting that has the rebound relatively fast, and try it out. Adjust for what you feel on the track as far as pogoing or sluggish response. Hope this helps. Chris | ||
| Slypiranna |
Glad to read that you and the bike "walked" away! Moving on and Please don't flame the $hit outta me...as I can't even grasp roadracing body leans... BUT, I'm 145#'s...and my bike works best when I'm all in with the lean. The only thing upright and about face is my helmet. Am I riding wrong? I looked at the starting thread pic and wondered why most of the rider's torso was over...the other direction of the turn? Can a more experienced racer please help me understand what I'm in question of? I have kicked out the stock Pir's rear and even the front in the slick but never have not felt ill confidence within them. Just my 2cents but I'd like to really understand what you racers out there think regarding body position. I already know the stock tyres stick. mm | ||
| Froggy |
I love the 2 pictures you didn't post!  "No! Not the feet!"  "Hey need a lift?" | ||
| Xl1200r |
Odin - I think I'm able to put a face to your name now - are the guy with long hair that was running the dyno at Liberty's open house last year? I noticed your S3T in the shop and asked one of the guys about it - I was told it wasn't going anywhere, lol. Great looking bike. | ||
| Odinbueller |
Hey Mark! Why yes, that was me. But if anyone asks, my name is Walter Bogan  Perhaps you would better recognize me here;  Thanks to Court for that shot! I use it everywhere! Thanks for the comments on the bike. It appears quite a few BadWebbers are lusting over it. I feel quite lucky to have it I have to admit, you have the CR CRAZY CRANKED OVER in your profile pic! Awesome! | ||
| Court |
I marvel each time I look at your two beautiful kids and say a prayer of thanks that your wife was involved in the process . . . my gosh . . what a picture! Court (New Badweb Discounter! ) | ||
| Slypiranna |
Gotta be a top ten mug shot! The BOGAN posts are high up on the list herein, non the less! mm | ||
| Khill |
Corsa 3's are great track tires. I have run them on my CBR1000 and am blown away how well they wear and how well they grip. From what I can tell looking at the picture, you have a few other issues going on that may have contributed to the crash. Ken | ||
| Patrickmitchell |
There is some great advice in this thread. Setting proper sag, rebound, dampening, and tire pressure will go a long way to creating predictable performance. The factory settings for my XB were pretty close. It sounds like your tire pressures were too high. Any liter bike will spin up the rear if you are too greedy with your right hand. Track days have become an addiction for me. Do your self a favor and take a track school. They look expensive, but are a lot cheaper than crashing. I'm glad you ok. | ||
| Clarkjw |
Suspension setup! And you should be pushing the front a little harder. Lean forward a bit (based on the 1 pic). | ||
| Jpfive |
I was 58 the last time I went down. It hurts more at our age, eh...? I am 62 now, and still riding aggressively - but I won't presume to advise a youngster like you on proper technique. Looking good, Dug! Jack | ||
| Duggram |
That day Roger Heemsbergen setup my suspension after watching me in the esses. Said I looked like an accident about to happen. After he set it the bike felt a lot more stable in the turns, especially the rough ones. As for schooling, Roger and his instructors have helped me each time I go. I'm also signed up for his two day class the last weekend of November. Roger seems to be quality. He is a past podium finisher in national races, holds the track record at Arroyo on a 600 and communicates real good with me. If you think my style looks bad here I should post picks from my first weekend (can't too embarrassed). The bottom line here is that I screwed up on tire pressures (and most importantly now realize it). Roger even told me to get a good gauge which I should have borrowed at the track that instant. I will have one before this weekend. Thanks for all the comments. Jpfive, especially like yours. Not sure how long this will last but I'm having the time of my life. | ||
| Duggram |
Froggy, just noticed your post. Where the hell did you get those pics? BTW I like them too. Actually, I like the whole series. Wish Ed could have caught the action sooner. But you have to admit he's a good photog and treats us real nice. | ||
| Hitman44139 |
May be a silly question but were the tires scrubbed in well on the outside edges. I know the 09 I took to Mid Ohio last week had newer tires and was running around on us... a thought. I haves tracked my old 25R on the stock tires and had no problems at all. I will on my new track bike run the same tires. A thought...... | ||
| Markrd500 |
I didnt like the corsa IIIs, thought there was a lack of feel. Got 2cts on now and they are much better. | ||
| Pariah |
Doug, I think you need to give the Corsa IIIs another chance. I had a lowside at a trackday with my 1125R, and I primarily blame my choice of tire pressures. I was running about 34psi in the front & rear cold and I was turning the fastest lap and I had ever done there (at least on a bike). This was my third lap, and I believe the heat generated made my contact patch shrink to zero! It slid out from under me at full lean as I dragged my knee. Slicks have their own issues... need to warm up, need to keep at temp with tire warmers. Unless you are really advanced, I'd stick with the Corsa IIIs and drop down to 29psi cold (front and rear) at your next event. My gripe is that I think Buell should recommend LOWER pressures in the manual for this bike to really stick. Maybe 34/36psi is good for general wear, but it's dangerous for aggressive riding. Takis (Message edited by pariah on October 19, 2008) |
