| Author | Message | ||
     Breezy |
Has anyone had the chance to do the remap? I'm wondering if the fueling improved and if there was any change in mpg. The 09's oxygen sensor is further away from the cylinder, will this alone make for better fueling? Has anyone done a mpg check with an 09? | ||
| Clarkjw |
According to 'Moose' (i think he's 'oden' here) from Liberty Buell/HD, the 2009 remap hasn't been released. The 2008 reflash has ofc been out a while. My bike has it and gets 22 MPG city and 35 to 40 highway. Not very good IMO. | ||
| Xb9 |
lots of questions, no one in the know providing real answers.....  I don't think they moved the 02's downstream and changed the injectors and insulated the fuel cell and reconfigured the ECM and WhoKnowsWhatElse just for sh#ts and giggles. That's just ongoing product improvement I guess, not a problem at all. At least we have published EPA estimated MPG's for the '09 this year. Makes you wonder why those specs where left blank '08? | ||
| Buellborn |
\blueAt least we have published EPA estimated MPG's for the '09 this year. Makes you wonder why those specs where left blank '08?} I'll take a stab at that. Maybe because so many 2008 owners are reporting crappy mileage when compared to other twins. | ||
| Clarkjw |
Careful, complaining about the godsend 1125r styling, heat, fueling gets you hated on by people who only ride highway miles. FWIW, I own one! | ||
| 01xjbuell |
I love my 34-38mpg vtwin power. Yeah, not the mileage I was getting with my XB. Fact is my $hit eating grin wasn't half as wide either....  and no I dont care how good the mileage is on OTHER Vtwins, I love my bike regardless. -Nick | ||
| Slypiranna |
There are some of us that believe the 09 flash, along with injectors, relocated o2's and insulation will be the solve or what is tolerable (per epa guidelines)...after that...it's up to the aftermarket. Concerning the latest 08 map w/relocated o2's...no difference in mileage. I've had them relocated for over 500 miles and the fuel light comes on the same. It will come down to most or all the upgrades inclusive in order to find the holy grail...but the ECU is where the majority of the issues lie hidden to us. The combined efforts of many have proven this last statement as fact. Please don't attempt to argue this as I won't reply. Might make you look good though?  From a marketing standpoint, I'd release the 09 map update for the 08's, yesterday...(satisfy the very few of the 08 owners) in an effort to move the remaining dealer inventory of 08 stock? Hint...hint. $675.00 of free goods along with a major price drop to $9995.00 seems more costly and far less successful in making room...and resale values have dropped off at a like rate. Current model ownership "word of mouth" advertising is far more valuable than any internet, tv commercial or rag ad that any could dream up to run. This post doesn't Just address fuel mileage but is very important to it. Oh, by the way, +1 Xb9. mm (Message edited by slypiranna on September 09, 2008) (Message edited by slypiranna on September 09, 2008) | ||
| Brent1125russ |
If I want good gas mileage, I'll ride my mountain bike...... There is only one gas mileage minimum requirement I keep on the 1125r.......one track session per tank. | ||
| Cataract2 |
What's this insulation that people keep mentioning on the 09s? | ||
| Xb9 |
http://www.badweatherbikers.com/cgibin/discus/show .cgi?tpc=290431&post=1227023#POST1227023 "The C1580.2AM is being installed in the 2009MY bikes and is a neat foil like layers separated by an effective insulating material with an adhesive on one side. It's one of those things that is very easy to install as part of the production process and would be prohibitive to retrofit." | ||
| Cataract2 |
Hm, might have to order that kit and install it when I do the valve checks. | ||
| Spectrum |
So wouldn't this installation kit be fairly easy to install during the valve service since the engine has to be rotated? | ||
| Xb9 |
http://www.badweatherbikers.com/cgibin/discus/show .cgi?tpc=290431&post=1227023#POST1227023 "Insulation kit Part number C1580.2AM. It can be installed on a 2008, but you'd have to at a very minimum do an engine rotate. Frame-off would be easier." If you've got it that far (rotated) it's probably not much more work to completely remove the engine from the frame IMHO. | ||
| D_adams |
I've got a dumb question. On a typical computer, when you flash the bios, you have the option to save the original. Is this not the case with the ECU on a bike? It seems to me that it's just a reprogrammable chip and you should be able to grab the 09 map off of a CR version and then flash that to an 08. | ||
| Thurstonbuell |
I would tend to think that with all the revisions in fuell injectors , 02 sensor positions , and probably many other things , it may not be a perfect match ???? IMO | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Is it legal from BMC to provide the insulation kits free, or substantially discounted, IF the work is done at the dealer....meaning BMC could confirm that the kits were being installed--not thrown in the corner of the garage, never to be seen again. Seems logical that this be an option of the the 12K service for sure. Cost on the kit? Anyone? | ||
| Xl1200r |
The kit is $11,995. It also comes with an extra engine, frame, swingarm, bodywork, suspension, wheels and tires. | ||
| Thurstonbuell |
 | ||
| Clarkjw |
I don't think you don't want the CR's ECM. Gearing is different. And LOL to Xl1200r | ||
| Pizzaboy |
I love my 34-38mpg vtwin power. Yeah, not the mileage I was getting with my XB. Fact is my $hit eating grin wasn't half as wide either.... and no I dont care how good the mileage is on OTHER Vtwins, I love my bike regardless. -Nick i couldnt have said it better myself... this is my exact feeling comparing my 1125 to my S2!! i can hardly wait for them to release the '09 remap... ill be first in line at my dealer!! im sure ill have them do it while they are being my joint storage unit and warranty work providers this winter. ive got an extensive list. replace 02 sensors, replace glazed over instrument cluster, replace both rear turn signals, 5th gear recall, and 09 remap. maybe we will get lucky and theyll go with a different 02 sensor design... like maybe one with more than 1 wire?!? that in itself would probably help the issues!! | ||
| Bdutro |
Remember that injector placement was changed too. Software can't fix it all. Heated vs. non heated O2 sensors usually just light off faster. | ||
| Citified |
placement wasnt changed, just type | ||
| Slypiranna |
What we've learned from 08/09 but yet to be proved of latest 08 flash and or any or all upgrades relevant to 09; MINOR gearing change(s) is irrelevant to the 1125r, cr, 08-09. The map doesn't care what "ratio" you are in. That is the job of the sensors that do...correcting the base MAPS! "Better" / Heated o2's have nothing to do with the equation either. They are already "heated" in CL. Every where else is OL and off solid base maps. OL has proved as close to perfect as any could hope for on a stocker. FACT. Stock 1 wire is fine and proven. Read archives. 5-wire/widebands have not helped at all. Hundreds of hours testing by many, adding up to thousands. Period. Placement of o2's does help (but not by itself)...as the new location allows a more accurate sampling point within the flow path of said sample of greater volume after the two valve primary merge in the primary pipe(s). This should prove less failure rate due to this placement...BUT advances in proper fueling wont' be for an absolute requirement globally or mandatory for every example. RIDE IT WITH THE MAP CHANGE ONLY! To lower the o2's sensor within the 08's location would have hindered flow. To do so after the fact doesn't. Why?=Boundary layer but don't think this is mandatory! Mapping will have a MAJOR effect on this principle as the mapping is closer to the mean target....=less correction requirement per unit of time. Back to injectors & their overall exhausting...Think windshield in a car traveling in rain at any interstate speed or higher. The water droplets travel at a very lower rate than the actual speed on the dash. Remember that concerning targeted injectors! This has nothing at all to do with higher rpm's (higher velocity) but has everything to do with slow speed riding in normal day to day/under 4500rpm cruise (as assumed would have been ridden in)...may prove that the new TARGET is patterned at the major velocity/flow point and not the port wall. No major comments on the new inner frame/cell heat shielding other than thanks for listening. It's inclusion proves just that on the 09. ECU mapping...now here is a real lesson that we've not fully understood thus far...but have proven, undeveloped on the 08 11...OR, just "some" examples of such. Build tolerance, rider perception, ride rpm and on and on and on we've been. "Heat" and/or voices of such...BMC has listened to recommendations since releasing the 08 11. The actual heat generation is compound, if you have not already gathered. A happier engine turns BTU's of heat into energy, one way or another...less of which is transferred to the frame if devoted to fuel efficent/forward motion per volume. Mileage...again, compound. If liquid fuel droplets are migrating to the intake walls...that is problematic. Think targeting and actual flow of the fluid stream/intake air...feedback via o2's reflects this. Why do you think that the mileage would be better in 09 when the power is the same? Welcome to efficiency. ((There is so much more to all of this than can be posted at once!)) If timing of the injector firing event was also altered in the ECU then another ponder arises, no? Yes. Given the 08...and back to o2's and all that we've learned...reread the above. If you TARGET the injector with proper TIMING of the intake event, you will have proper combustion, (AND less overshoot on the exhaust event as feed back by the o2's) given the base fuel/timing map parameters and even in CL. If you have droplets of fuel, the o2 will read rich/lean to a point of an overshoot constant/beyond what is capable of the time element of the ecu to correct for. Herky-Jerky @ said load point up to open loop. This engine/configuration has already proven on many examples to run just great above 16:1 A/F. Some have not. I seriously bet that the new flash will not go against EPA (or it would not have been approved for 09!) but will improve the few 08 11's that remain unhappy from a CL, street ridden, standpoint. I just wish that I had purchased all the remaining 08's @ the current offering to resale with said perfection! They ALL have the potential to be excellent examples for each and every owner, rider or reviewer...the rags will even rave and all the updated 08's will blow out the dealer's doors with the new late owners at the financial advantage!...a$$holes!  We'll read it in 09...it's going to be ok. Nothing is "impossible". Credit aplenty goes to Buell for really hanging in there and listening to the base owner group as direction/solution to an otherwise perfect offering. Excellence is derived from what is seemed as a public failing in regards to it's competition...but we already knew this was a great offering in 08! Thank you, Buell. You are proven to be an incredible company that has an honest and loyal following. Though somewhat limited in your access, as a whole, your company proves the core fundamentals of great business ethics. Thank you, Badweb and all it's members. Your combined involvement and experiences herein only helps the end cause. In ending to a very long post...but no sorry to do so...THIS; Matt @ BMC customer service deserves this public Thank You for HIS dedication, patience and overwhelming kindness for what he has been hired to do. He deserves this, along with a raise! It's folks like Matt that make this ownership/learning curve, enjoyable and sometimes, challenging! Can't wait to test the 09 flash!!!!!!!! mm | ||
| Zac4mac |
+BUNCHES to Matt!! Very personal, Single Point Of Contact at the customer level. The experience so far with Loretta will keep me a Buell customer for life. Z |
