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Lake_Bueller
| | Posted on Friday, September 27, 2002 - 04:49 pm: | 
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I've seen many conversations (both here & on Sacborg) about the problems with Buell motors. I guess my question would be WHY.
The engines are made by Harley-Davidson for the Buell & Sportster. Why don't you hear about Sportster engines blowing up  ? I've heard that Erik says it's because we "customize" our Buells for performance. What a piss poor excuse! When was the last time you saw a H-D without performance parts?
Has anyone also noticed that most of the problems are with the X1 bikes? How many S3 or M2 owners have you heard from that had engines grenade.
Now don't get me wrong....I love my Buell. So much, in fact, that I recently purchased another. I'm just posing the question to the masses. It seems odd that the problems are limited to Buells and (more importantly) to X1s.
Mennis |
Bomber
| | Posted on Friday, September 27, 2002 - 05:03 pm: |
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Mennis
the analysis SHOULD be easily done, I'm thinkin, especially comparing X1s to other buells . . . . .unless I'm confused (always a possibility), X1 motors are the same as S3s, except the cams, yes?
if yes, look for failure modes linked to cams (i.e. hot running causing piston deformation causing gudgeon pin retaining clips to jump ship into the oil pump causing havoc . . .
or somthing |
Buellnuts
| | Posted on Friday, September 27, 2002 - 05:10 pm: |
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Well here's my take on it.
1. Sportsters engines are not putting HP to the ground.
2. There isn't much stress with no power.
3. Solid mounted Sportster Engines feel crappy to rev due to vibration.
4. Not much need in flogging a Sporty.
5. Buell tweeks the engine to get performance (high Stress)
6. Feels good to rev a Rubber Mounted engine.
Engine design coupled with high stress and RPM's = probable problems.
Many people that come off high reving 4 cylinder engines that are counter ballanced dont understand that keeping a Buell at red line all day will cause it to self destruct. (not allways)
I think it's a fine engine for it's intended purpose (cruiser) or it's still fine for a Buell if short shifting is what you do.
I think an engine redesign is far overdue. I also think that Harley Devilson should cut loose with some fund for development of a new engine and compete in the real world. One only has to look at company's such as KTM, Aprilia, Ducati, Triumph etc. Those company's aren't looking back, Ther looking forward and eating the US sportBike Market alive.
My 2 sence Via the Rain Forest, Bob |
Bomber
| | Posted on Friday, September 27, 2002 - 05:26 pm: |
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Bob . . . . .you're right on time and target, but you don't address the differing failure rates. . . . . .
if they needed to be short-shifted, btw, the engineers are smart enough to re--program the rev-limiter
I wail on my M2 harder than almost all of the blown up X1s I know of (and they were all well and carefully maintained) . . . .. . |
Mbsween
| | Posted on Friday, September 27, 2002 - 05:30 pm: |
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Hey All,
Lets not forget that many of the problems are caused by owner or shop "modifications". I haven't had a mechanical problem that wasn't induced by my own hands (or mainly the shops!  ).
I've beat the tar out of a 2001 X1 (just going through 11,000 miles). I routinely bounce off the rev limiter in 2nd and 3rd (6800 rpm w/the race ecm). Its held up fine (yes I do come from an inline background, hell the KZ starts making power at the Buell redline)
One thing that would be bad about a change would be the loss of "character" of the tube frame bikes. Who needs feeling in their hands anyways? But then again the tube frames are dead.
I think Buell should be developing a new motor, but put in a new bike or new line of bikes. Let the faithful, or at least the stubborn old bastards, have theirs shaken, not revved.
Just my 2½¢ |
Buellnuts
| | Posted on Friday, September 27, 2002 - 07:08 pm: |
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Bomber, Failer rate, Ya, Hmmmmm lets see.
I dont know the figures (with I did) but I can only go on my own experience.
We have had 5 Buells, one S-1, two S-3's and two X-1's.
We did have the best of luck with all of them and craming many hard miles on them.
I have had the honor of being aquainted with a Butt load of Buellers through the years and have seen many failers. Yes the lower stressed M-2's seem to have less failers probly due to Camming and vave train in general.
Where am I going with all this? Shit i dont know!
Last year I've seen an un heard of amount of Belt Failers, Countless rocker box leaks, Bikes puking oil, electrics going bad, cases leaking etc.
I dont have a Buell any more but do miss them. I quit ownership of Buell not because of the Bikes but because of Dealership issues, (lack of Dealership involvement)
I currently ride a 01 Triumph Sprint ST. I bought it a year and 2 months ago and have 18,500 miles on the ticker.
The bike has not spit, coughed, choked, leaked or anything. The tripple motor is sweet.
I will have another Buell some day but not the current 9R or 9S. Great Bike but I think they missed there mark. The new engine might be better but god it's down on HP. I've also come to the conclussion that I dont want to buy a Bike that I have to purchace a full blown race kit in order to bring it up to parr with the rest of the world.
I still love the Buells though! If I could just shed these good looks and be rich I'd have them all.
In The Rain Forest, Bob |
Hootowl
| | Posted on Friday, September 27, 2002 - 07:48 pm: |
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X1 and S3 have the same motor. It's the M2s that have different cams. |
Buellnuts
| | Posted on Friday, September 27, 2002 - 08:46 pm: |
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Ya, thats what I said, Bob |
Hootowl
| | Posted on Saturday, September 28, 2002 - 12:28 am: |
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That was for Bomber... |
Rick_A
| | Posted on Saturday, September 28, 2002 - 02:30 am: |
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I think it's odd that some people have gone through multiple motors and rebuilds in fairly short order. Makes me wonder WTF is going on. Is it karma??? 
Mennis, I think Eric was referring to the seriously modified engines having early failures. If I remember correctly, he stated that most other bikes simply get a pipe and jet kit, while Buell owners typically do more extensive modifications. |
Kcbill
| | Posted on Saturday, September 28, 2002 - 02:52 am: |
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Mennis,It does't always happen to Buells. Example: My dealer refunded a buyers purchase of an S3. Always breaking down. He was really hard on it. They figured he'd never be happy with it and they would always be working on it. He bought a TLR1000. The dealer booted him and told him to never come back because he tore it up all the time and ragged on them about it. They can all be sefishently hammered and break. |
Bomber
| | Posted on Monday, September 30, 2002 - 09:19 am: |
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Hoot
Thanks for clearing that up . . . . if the S and X series scoot have identical engines and peripherals (EMCs and the like), the delta between what appears to be their failure rates is even more puzzling, yes?
As for dealerships (most especially services departments), I agree . . . the good are few and far between . . . |
Hootowl
| | Posted on Monday, September 30, 2002 - 09:45 am: |
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Maybe people tend to ride their X1's a little harder than their S3's. I'm not saying people don't ride the shit out their S3's, only that MOST people who buy a sport tourer are less likely to hot rod around than MOST people who ride thug bikes. Could explain the difference. |
Bomber
| | Posted on Monday, September 30, 2002 - 09:53 am: |
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Hoot . .. . . yessir, I thought the same thing, buy, jeeez, the frag/per bike ration is still way outa whack, unless X-riders all flog their beasts and S-jockey's all grandad around (neither is true, from what I've seen . . . . )
to quote Yul Brenner, a puzzlement |
Mikej
| | Posted on Monday, September 30, 2002 - 10:38 am: |
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Figure out the speedometer sensor failure reasons and you'll probably be well on your way to figure out the other failure reasons. Or not.
I've been told it has nothing to do with H-D being a Union shop and Buell not (was told this very adamantly by the way (ruffled feathers and all)). |
Libnosis
| | Posted on Monday, September 30, 2002 - 05:20 pm: |
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Quote:1. Sportsters engines are not putting HP to the ground.
2. There isn't much stress with no power.
3. Solid mounted Sportster Engines feel crappy to rev due to vibration.
4. Not much need in flogging a Sporty.
5. Buell tweeks the engine to get performance (high Stress)
6. Feels good to rev a Rubber Mounted engine.
1. No not stock. But who leaves their's stock? My 1200c puts 90+ to the rear wheel.
2. See #1.
3. Never stopped me from revving mine to 6800 rpm.
4. Are you kidding? Before I bought a Buell that was my drag bike.
5. Who doesn't? Check my profile.
6. I've got 30k+ on mine. I'll be riding it to Sturgis next August. Just say no to rubbers.
BTW The Buell internals in mine have 27k on them and have been maintenance free. Thanks Joey B!
lib |
Buellnuts
| | Posted on Monday, September 30, 2002 - 07:19 pm: |
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Mark, I too had High milage Buells and I'm not saying that every one has problems.
I had great luck. The only thing is, is there's an ungodly amount of Buells that have had problems. I dont think anyone can denie that.
Talk to anyone that has raced an 883 and ask then how many heads they have gone through in a season.
Yes, Sportster engines can be tweeked to run hard and fast but your lucky if you get longevity.
Oh well good luck on the continued good luck, Ha Ha Ha
In The Rain Forest, Bob |
Libnosis
| | Posted on Monday, September 30, 2002 - 07:50 pm: |
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Bob
I'll check back with you next August when I get back from Sturgis. 
lib |
Blake
| | Posted on Monday, September 30, 2002 - 10:02 pm: |
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X and S series? What about the best of them all? The M series! Fools! |
Rick_A
| | Posted on Monday, September 30, 2002 - 11:41 pm: |
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S1 was best, what you thinkin'??? |
Newfie_Buell
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 09:39 am: |
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I would have to agree with Rick on this one, the S1 is the ultimate hooligan bike ever built. IMHO that is. And when you have the only one on the whole island (I would estimate the only one within 1500km) its even better. There is a S3 around as well but thats about 800km from me.
The S1 is the best one. Sorry Blake and all the M2ers. |
Libnosis
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 12:23 pm: |
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Newfie, Blake's in denial. |
Lake_Bueller
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 01:05 pm: |
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We're not going to start this debate again are we? The best Buell ever....'98 S3T. First year of 101hp and last year of carb. Best of both worlds
Oh yeah....you can also tour with it!!!
Mennis |
Rick_A
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 11:59 pm: |
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M2's are just milder S1's
and S3's are just softer S1's.
That's how I sees it  |
Bykergeek
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 02, 2002 - 08:28 am: |
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OK, I'll bite. What was so different with the S1 to make it Supreme Hooligan leader? |
Court
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 02, 2002 - 10:25 am: |
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I'm looking at this "Buells Only" thread as I prepare to make an appointment with BMW to have the recall work done . . . seems "German Engineering" has the rear caliper parting company with it's mounting and becoming entangled in the swingarm.....perhaps they'll be a step closer to the solution for the "non-existent" surging problem the company denies yet 85% of owner's complain about.
Anyway..what the heck.....BMW in the shop I always have the Buell with 28,000+ miles that's never missed a day to ride.
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Rick_A
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 02, 2002 - 10:40 am: |
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It was the start of the "new era" of tube framers after the S2. It was the rawest and nastiest of the bunch...still is.
Now, what was the topic...why do Buells blow up? |
Ray_Maines
| | Posted on Friday, October 04, 2002 - 07:48 pm: |
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Mennis: Oh Bull S...whatever! The 98 S1W is the coolest (and, therefore, best!) bike ever made. Nothing comes close, not a Dunstill Norton, not a Munch 2,000,000 (or whatever), not Nothing. Over. |
Thunderbolter97
| | Posted on Sunday, October 06, 2002 - 10:54 am: |
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Court,
Glad you had some input into this highly technical and opinionated conversation. This summer I almost traded my 97 S3T for a R1100S,
figuring a bike that goes for $16,400 would have to be veeerry trouble free and of a higher quality
than I had yet to experience in my 30 yrs riding.
Since I decided against giving them the FULL list price, and taking $5k for mine, I've put on another 2500 miles, trouble free, and am glad I held off. just my $.03 worth. TB |
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