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Chellem
| | Posted on Saturday, August 23, 2008 - 09:05 am: | 
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I should probably keep my big mouth (keyboard?) shut.
But I have to say, I agree with the other dealers who have chimed in. Surprised, right? Yeah I know.
But it is frustrating, trying to run a business, a GOOD business, with educated, hopefully enthusiastic employees, and then to lose a sale to a "fellow" dealer over a few bucks. It happens all the time, esp. in this well-populated area.
We made the decision, consciously, to be good, not cheap. Others have made the opposite decision. Not saying either is right or wrong, but the experience is quite different. Like, going to Saks or K-Mart. (I'm NOT saying we're Saks, but we're trying not to be kmart. I'd say, maybe Macy's or Penneys, definitely.)
I guess we'll just have to see who's still standing in the end. I hope it's us, and those like us, but price is a big thing, esp. lately.
Consumers vote with their dollars. So if consumers want good, they'll pay more. If they want cheap, they'll pay less. Ultimately it's their decision who gets to stay in business, or at least which business model is better.
So we'll just have to wait and see I guess.
->ChelleM |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Saturday, August 23, 2008 - 09:56 am: |
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I look for great service with a fair price first. If I can't find it, I look for a great price.
I saved almost $8 on a head gasket for my KLR-250 by going to eBay instead of my import guru. I wasted about 30 hours of work as a result. Ain't I the clever one  |
Boney95
| | Posted on Saturday, August 23, 2008 - 09:56 am: |
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Chellem
There's a difference between buying a cheap product vs buying a quality product that is sold cheaper by a competitor. People are hitting at service over cost. People are saying that they don't go hand in hand. Which I agree with to a certain extent. |
Chellem
| | Posted on Saturday, August 23, 2008 - 10:14 am: |
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There's a difference between buying a cheap product vs buying a quality product that is sold cheaper by a competitor
In the instance of Buell or Harley products, we all pay the same price. Someone who is selling it cheaper is doing so at the expense of his profit margin. His decision.
That means, ultimately, that he has less money to spend training his employees, paying his employees, and all the other stuff that people complain that no one does at dealers. So yes, paying more for the same product CAN mean better service. It doesn't always, but one has a better shot at getting good service at a store that sells things a bit higher than one who discounts.
Discounters rely, I assume, on quantity to make up the profit margin loss. Believe it or not, most employees don't like working twice as hard for the same money. Crazy nuts.
->ChelleM |
Ft_bstrd
| | Posted on Saturday, August 23, 2008 - 12:17 pm: |
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In the instance of Buell or Harley products, we all pay the same price. Someone who is selling it cheaper is doing so at the expense of his profit margin. His decision.
That means, ultimately, that he has less money to spend training his employees, paying his employees, and all the other stuff that people complain that no one does at dealers. So yes, paying more for the same product CAN mean better service. It doesn't always, but one has a better shot at getting good service at a store that sells things a bit higher than one who discounts.
Discounters rely, I assume, on quantity to make up the profit margin loss. Believe it or not, most employees don't like working twice as hard for the same money. Crazy nuts.
->ChelleM
BINGO! We have a winner!
Why would they be willing to make less money per transaction? Because it's cheaper than hiring good people, properly training them, maintaining the infrastructure, and waiting for them to develop the deep pools of expertise that exist within competitor shops.
It's called the quick buck. We get lots of quick buck competitor shops in our business two. |
Sticks
| | Posted on Saturday, August 23, 2008 - 12:49 pm: |
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Interesting... I got my bike, same equipment same color yada yada for 10% less by driving 10 minutes farther.
I don't know how the Buell or Harley consumer is supposed to expect or know that the $1000.00 ( in my case ) out the door difference is going to effect the level of support I get over the life of my bike. Hell, in two years if not sooner we all transition into doing all if not most of our own work anyway. I'm guessing, after the warranty is up.
I still say $1000.00 is 1000.00 bucks. |
Skinstains
| | Posted on Saturday, August 23, 2008 - 12:59 pm: |
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No I'm not kidding. Personally I hardly look at price and don't much care about saving a few bucks, I want what I want. Am I rich ? Far from it. The deciding factor for me is usually country of origin and then the service provided. When I bought my Buells I bought them from the dealer that treated me better. I didn't even attempt to haggle either. I asked how much out the door and that was that. I could've shopped around but I rewarded the salesmen and the dealership with my money because they deserved it. Admittedly I haven't read the "deleted" post. I may be mistaken but from what I understood A good deal at a non-sponsors business was posted. The post was then removed from the board. Is this correct ? I will go no further untill I know for sure what I'm talking about. I do hope someone lets me know the scoop so that I may continue with my thoughts. |
Chellem
| | Posted on Saturday, August 23, 2008 - 01:09 pm: |
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I don't know how the Buell or Harley consumer is supposed to expect or know that the $1000.00 ( in my case ) out the door difference is going to effect the level of support I get over the life of my bike. Hell, in two years if not sooner we all transition into doing all if not most of our own work anyway. I'm guessing, after the warranty is up.
First, I don't think that the paying-less-and-getting-less-service thing is exclusive to H-D or Buell dealers. I think that's pretty universal as far as businesses go. Everything costs money - including service (because those pesky employees expect to get paid EVERY two weeks! :P ) so theoretically, the less you pay, the less service you get. Not sure the converse is true though.
Secondly, I know a lot of people can do their own services, but to say that MOST riders can do their own stuff is, well, a stretch. In fact, a lot of people who believe they can do their own work should probably not. And the more complex the bikes get, with more computer parts, the harder it is for regular folks to do their own repairs.
So in the short term, $1,000 is a great savings! I agree - I'd have a hard time passing up a deal like that.
But when he's the only game left in town, because he's out-priced everyone else and they've all shut down, and you need something fixed, like, by qualified people, that short-term savings may not seem so great.
Like I said above, time will tell which business model plays out the winner. I hope it's the one with the quality service at fair prices! But I'm by no means sure anymore.
->ChelleM |
Sticks
| | Posted on Saturday, August 23, 2008 - 01:35 pm: |
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I spouted off as is my habit. Be that as it may, I do think a lot of folks do a considerable amount of their own work. More so after their factory warranties are up. I think the simple nature of the Buells and ease of working on them is a deciding factor for many.
I personally don't buy MERELY based on price. I have been known to pay the same 10% premium in my personal example just to support a individual or business that treats me well.
1000 bucks is a big chunk when you only gross fiddy. There is absolutely a place for the little guy even if he can't compete with Walmart IF he knows how to treat people and keep them coming back.
Have a great day all |
Jerry_haughton
| | Posted on Saturday, August 23, 2008 - 01:37 pm: |
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Admittedly I haven't read the "deleted" post. I may be mistaken but from what I understood A good deal at a non-sponsors business was posted. The post was then removed from the board. Is this correct ?
yes, i'd say this is essentially correct. the thread wasn't deleted, just moved from public view.
i edited Boney's initial post on THIS thread because some of the verbiage in his query constituted yet more free advertising for the dealer in question, altho i believe this wasn't Boney's intention.
I will go no further untill I know for sure what I'm talking about. I do hope someone lets me know the scoop so that I may continue with my thoughts.
done. please let me know if you have further questions to aid in your reply, looking forward to your thoughts.
best,
FB |
Ducxl
| | Posted on Saturday, August 23, 2008 - 01:56 pm: |
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Funny thread.. I'm dedicated to the outstanding service my dealer has given me.We even got them to join here as sponsors.
Then...when we got an online tire quote our dealer came back and offered us a group discount and came very close to the online tire retailer.
And EVERY time i visit Precision HD/Buell for parts,the parts guy is always the first one now to remind me of my Badweb discount.
Great service deserves reciprocity |
Buellgator
| | Posted on Saturday, August 23, 2008 - 02:37 pm: |
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the particular place that was posted gives that big discount, but ask some of my customers what has happened when they needed help from them with something after the fact.
there are a few people that i deal with i basically quit being so helpful to. (call me an a$$ or whatever you want. tell me its my job to help them. no its not, my JOB is to sell them parts. i spend the extra time educating them/or going the extra mile to figure out what they really need because it makes me feel good to help people out of a jam, and because i think thats how a good person should be, but you cant do it to your own detriment either)
when you come in to my store and question me for an hour about things only to straight up tell me you are going to order the stuff from this other dealer for that discount, or you call me up because no one else can figure out the part number so you can order it from them. how do you think that goes over with me. do you know how many sales i have lost because i devoted my time to trying to help you only to be basically spit on. when it happens with the same people over and over, i loose all interest in spending my time on it. i am all for helping people, but just dont forget to throw a bone or two my way sometimes. i have to eat too you know.
now dont get me wrong, i look around for deals, but there are many times i pay that extra bit because i know damn well the person i bought it from will go the extra mile for me if i need it, or simply because i appreciate the effort they put into trying to help me.
knowledge is worth alot. especially when it comes to buells it seems. many many people complain about there dealer having no one working there that knows anything about buells. there are many that do know plenty about buells though also, but the first sign of a little better price and people jump ship to get it. do it often enough and the person with the answers/or the one that usually has your back, wont be in business. its as simple as that.
I don't know that I could have said it any better. Bravo Tim ! |
Oddball
| | Posted on Saturday, August 23, 2008 - 03:16 pm: |
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My VTR was bought for a 10% savings over other dealers out the door prices. It was the second bike I purchased from them, but even the first was bought at a savings.Since then, I've sent as many as I could their direction if they were looking for anything in those brands. They've grown in the last decade. More employees, more inventory, a second floor added to the building. I'm glad they're doing well.
What sold me was hearing that offered price. On one of the first VTRs around and the first they had. I didn't have to do the damn standard auto sales dance. She offered a good deal without any of that. No haggling headache = one happy me.
After all this I think I'll hope that '09 brings a new v2 or v4 sportbike from Honda again. A street version of an rc211 would be nice.
I won't throw in the towel on considering HD/Buell yet. But their opportunities have only been 4 times in 2 decades. Maybe in my fifties a geezer glide will have appeal. |
Daves
| | Posted on Saturday, August 23, 2008 - 11:56 pm: |
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Hey Chellem,
did you get Anders taken care of? |
Cityxslicker
| | Posted on Sunday, August 24, 2008 - 02:24 am: |
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I am outsourcing my Give a Damn and increasing my quota on sarcasm; and at half the price of my competitor, you better believe you are in for one hell of a deal.
Adventure MUD, paint your bike like you actually ride it, show the 'ADV' crowd your true colors and road spirit. Adventure MUD, not to be outdone, now rock bottom prices and filthy savings, get it while supplies last. Dont be the last one on your block with a clean bike. Buy it by the pound and save in bulk, Mud was never this dirt cheap. 19.99 per 6oz, Order Today! *Adventure Mud, as Seen on CityXslicker's Bike, no real Buells were dirtied to make the product, product subject to availability, void where prohibited, limited quantities available. Extra Handling and service convenience charges may apply; Your results may vary. |
Bombardier
| | Posted on Sunday, August 24, 2008 - 03:44 am: |
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Intended to buy for the price but bought local for the 'support'.
Should have bought for the price in my area.
Told by the only Harley mechanic that he hates working on these things.
Running rough - 'Buell puts something in the frame/tank that makes it run bad for the first 1000km' - Give me a break!!!!
Asked about reflash/update - The Buells do not have that sort of injection.What you have is what you get.
Do my own service now and only go back for warranty work. |
Oddball
| | Posted on Sunday, August 24, 2008 - 05:40 am: |
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With that outlook on Buells do you really think they'd do much about warranty work? Saying things like that with a straight face means one of two things. He's an idiot or lying through his teeth hoping you're one. Perhaps even a combo of the two. I'd guess he's not Buell trained since you called him the only Harley mechanic. You'll probably have to go over his head to Buell Australia for any help you may need in the future. |
Bombardier
| | Posted on Sunday, August 24, 2008 - 05:52 am: |
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I think its the old bullshit baffles brains system that is used.
'If I dont know I will cough up some really weird thing that could not possibly be disproved.' is another one thats well in use most places.
They have replaced/updated the clutch wireform and replaced the clutch cable as well because of the burnt outer. |
Cochise
| | Posted on Sunday, August 24, 2008 - 08:15 am: |
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We have a competitor in another town for Honda (cars) who LOVE selling Accords and Civics, which are in high demand and LOSING $2500 on almost every deal. I get paid on commission with $50 minis, they get paid $250 minis. It's tough to make money like that. We give people more value with our Lifetime Powertrain Warranty which is very relaxed, and free and great service, but people just want the money saved. |
Chellem
| | Posted on Sunday, August 24, 2008 - 10:04 pm: |
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Daves - I think so. I gave the shipping guy the go ahead, and I saw some orders placed. Not sure how it ended - but I hope it ended well!
I should probably find out... |
Daves
| | Posted on Monday, August 25, 2008 - 08:00 am: |
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you know, I am trusting you with my friend.
Please check and PM or email me.
I just want to be sure he has been taken care of. |
Buellinachinashop
| | Posted on Monday, August 25, 2008 - 09:17 am: |
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"That means, ultimately, that he has less money to spend training his employees, paying his employees, and all the other stuff that people complain that no one does at dealers"
NOT if he's selling more product than a dealer that isn't lowering his profit margin.
He's probably making more money. If Dealer A is selling stuff at zero discount, but he sells 1 item, and Dealer 2 sells at 10%, but sells 10, Dealer 2 is probably making more money.
(Message edited by Buellinachinashop on August 25, 2008) |
Buellinachinashop
| | Posted on Monday, August 25, 2008 - 09:22 am: |
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"Why should someone who has put in years of good service supporting the brand and loyal customers and who has a history of supporting BadWeb have to compete with someone who simply rolls in and provides nothing but the hint of a better deal?"
Sponsors compete every single day here. There's a Classifieds for not only parts, but bikes as well, alot of stuff "New in Box". |
Ft_bstrd
| | Posted on Monday, August 25, 2008 - 09:35 am: |
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But the sponsors have ALL paid to play here and shown that they are committed to the brand.
What if these low ball prices are the result of a dealer trying to clear Buells off the floor so that they can drop the line?
Sure sponsors have to compete with that. We just don't have to allow these discount dealers to advertise here on BW for free when sponsors have paid to advertise here. |
Chellem
| | Posted on Monday, August 25, 2008 - 09:40 am: |
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If Dealer A is selling stuff at zero discount, but he sells 1 item, and Dealer 2 sells at 10%, but sells 10, Dealer 2 is probably making more money.
I know this is only an example, but believe me, if I thought a 10% discount would net 10 TIMES the sales, well, I don't think anyone would hesitate. Actually, we do offer a 10% discount on parts and stuff here for badwebbers.
As far as discounting motorcycles, and I've said this before, I can't make up discounts on quantity. I know some dealers can, who have been around for years and years and have very low overhead, but not every dealer can. It's not like I just call the factory and order more bikes. I simply can't. So even if I could sell 10 times the bikes, I can't get them in.
->ChelleM |
Court
| | Posted on Monday, August 25, 2008 - 01:33 pm: |
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I suspect, based simply on my 25 years of experience starting and managing my own company, that it's a lot like riding . . . . each dealer needs to analyze their situation, create and execute a plan.
Trying to do what another dealership does is akin to my trying to follow a far more skilled rider into a hot curve and assume his line and technique will work for me.
I place great value in a very high level of service. Don;t get me wrong, I love a good deal but I am more concerned about the deal being good for me AND for the dealer I am relying on to support my purchase for years in the future.
Fair is.
Court |
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