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Blake
| | Posted on Saturday, August 16, 2008 - 02:28 pm: | 
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Beware! Recreational Equipment Can Cause Burns! |
Blake
| | Posted on Saturday, August 16, 2008 - 02:44 pm: |
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More interesting info concerning burns...
http://www.exponent.com/Scalds-and-Burn-Injuries-C apabilities/
Just 44oC (111oF) can cause a 2nd or 3rd degree burn. That is not very hot.
As part of a SatCom development program, we measured the surface temperature of a satellite Earth station antenna's main reflector surface that was exposed to mid-day Summer sun here in Kilgore, Texas. In one case, it hit 140oF. I think that even with highly reflective and diffusive white paint, the temperature was over 115oF. Of course the military won't be having anything painted white in the field of combat.
I guess given that burns can occur at just 111oF, I'd have to agree that Buell should probably offer some type of shield or protection for the legs; or employ something to prevent the frame from ever getting hot enough to burn legs, if not insulation as per the 2009 models, a simple plastic, rubber, or trick carbon fiber aplique would probably do the trick. |
Pariah
| | Posted on Saturday, August 16, 2008 - 03:01 pm: |
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I don't think regular jeans can be considered proper riding apparel. Denim shreds against asphalt in a very short distance (typically in much less than 10 feet in a slide, if I'm not mistaken). Even if you wear aramid-reinforced jeans (like Draggin' Jeans, for instance) there is no impact protection. So even aramid-reinforced jeans by themselves aren't really proper lower-body riding gear.
Cycleport makes the best kevlar gear you can buy. They have a link showing the relative tear and abrasion strengths of materials:
http://www.motoport.com/Page.Asp?Id=19
And you can see how lousy denim really is. When I wear Cycleport's kevlar pants (comfortable in even 100F Texas heat), I am protected from the 1125R's extra heat output.
OK, I have no financial interest in Cycleport, but thought I'd share my experience (great fitting, hot-weather comfortable gear that offers outstanding protection). |
Oddball
| | Posted on Saturday, August 16, 2008 - 03:41 pm: |
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This banter is funny to watch.  
jeans=unsafe (too little R factor) I think my space blanket chaps might still be a workable idea.
leather, Aerostitch or Buell adventure pant(99438-07BM) = enough R factor to keep autonomic reactions at the perspiration level.
Guess they've got it covered for the leftovers with the gear credit then?
I asked the question about retrofit kits cause I wanted to at least know if the parts would be available for current owners or potential leftover buyers to acquire.
"The C1580.2AM is being installed in the 2009MY bikes and is a neat foil like layers separated by an effective insulating material with an adhesive on one side. It's one of those things that is very easy to install as part of the production process and would be prohibitive to retrofit."
Sounds like, at best, the parts/kit will be available but perhaps expensive with labor hours involved.
 I think I'll wait a couple months to see reactions and readings for the 2009's. |
Hwyranger
| | Posted on Saturday, August 16, 2008 - 04:09 pm: |
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Did I mention that the ambient temp on the day my legs got burned was 80-85? I don't think we can expect the frame or seat to get that hot from ambient temps...
By the way, earlier this week I did ride my bike to work (9 miles) and the frame got too hot to touch. This was 745 am, temps mid 70's. and in my garage when I started...I don't think I'll buy the ambient or radiant heat theory. 2 hours later, I rode it for another 10-15 minutes to get lunch.. again the frame got really hot...temps low 90's. after lunch got on the bike and it was still hot (what I would expect due to the fact it was in a shady spot in the parking lot. Got hot again in the ride back to the office. Parked in the motor bay (perks of being a motor officer). Bike was ambient warm by the time I left for home. Got home and the bike again was too hot to touch with my gloved hand (I wear Held racing gloves when riding my baby). 3 hours afterwards, the frame was still hot to the touch (not hot enough to burn me, but enough to know I don't want to keep touching it.
On the day I got burned, there was no rubbing. I could feel the heat on my legs, and I kept them off the tank as much as I could. I did not have a death grip on the tank. That was a long day with prolonged exposure to the heat of the frame which ended up blistering my legs.}
On a side note. A few months ago, a group of us got together to ride to Willow Springs to watch the races...temps were 115-120. All of our bikes were screamin hot....We did not think anything of it because it would be expected in that heat. During that ride, I kept my legs away from the tank as much as possible. I still came away a little red but I expected that.
As for proper riding gear...wearing my full leathers, I still feel the tank getting too hot...This is not an issue of what you wear to protect yourself from the heat of your motorcycle...that is to protect yourself from road rash. Hell, the leather suit is thinner on the inseam than my jeans.
"Still very curious as to how one may not notice a scalding hot temperature on one's inner leg, a normally very sensitive area, yes?"
Sun burns can be second degree burns...I don't think you feel yourself getting burned, you just feel the after effects.
I posted that thread looking for a solution to the problem...insulating the frame, wrapping the headers, puting grip skins on the frame...I don't care, I LOVE this bike and want to find a way to ride it without having this problem.... |
Oddball
| | Posted on Saturday, August 16, 2008 - 04:24 pm: |
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Still the pantless standing idea. 
(Message edited by Oddball on August 16, 2008) |
Pariah
| | Posted on Saturday, August 16, 2008 - 04:30 pm: |
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(just an aside)
Hwy, you're right in that "heat isolation" is not the primary function of gear. But I would argue that some gear is better at it than others, and, in my experience, the Kevlar pants with impact protection work better than regular denim or polyester stuff that I've tried... don't know about leather as I haven't tried it. |
Buellborn
| | Posted on Saturday, August 16, 2008 - 05:26 pm: |
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If Jeans are unsafe wear, why are they in the photos and videos on the Buell site? and most every motorcycle site? |
Doerman
| | Posted on Saturday, August 16, 2008 - 07:40 pm: |
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On the heated topic of frame temperature...
I was at California Harley Davidson and Buell today for an open house and Buell demo rides. They had 3 1125Rs in the fleet. I was interested to find out if there is a difference in frame temperature in bikes since I don't have a heated frame problem and live in the same area and ride pretty much the same roads as Tom (Hwyranger) does.
So after the 3 1125Rs in the demo fleet came back from the 1/2 hour demo loop, I went over and touched the frame (right side by exhaust).
Two of them had tolerable frame temperature. I.e I could touch it and not hurt my fingers (light gloves). One was significantly hotter than the other two.
These three bikes had gone through a city loop with stop and go traffic and max 45MPH with a insignificant difference in duty (only rider weight) resulting in a significant difference in frame temperature.
I have experienced elevated frame temps on my bike twice. Nothing that would burn my legs. So I believe a marginal O2 sensor might make for one suspect in the chase for reasons for the hot frames. A marginal O2 sensor is probably not a be all end all to the frame temperature, but a fresh O2 sensor has had a positive effect on mine. |
Redbuelljunkie
| | Posted on Saturday, August 16, 2008 - 07:50 pm: |
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Good question. Most OEM's request their riders wear "protective clothing", and Buell is probably dead-on in the ads due to most riders actually wearing jeans. It would be just as accurate if H-D had ads with riders wearing shorts, wife-beaters and flip flops. The truth is denim does not provide protection, nor do any materials not designed for impact and abrasion resistance.
I never realized how hot the XB frame got until I rode in jeans instead of leather one day... solution- only ride wearing leather. Also, I've never noticed heat during track days in the one-piece suit... must be concentration blocking it out. |
Palerider
| | Posted on Saturday, August 16, 2008 - 08:30 pm: |
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"Good question. Most OEM's request their riders wear "protective clothing", and Buell is probably dead-on in the ads due to most riders actually wearing jeans. It would be just as accurate if H-D had ads with riders wearing shorts, wife-beaters and flip flops. The truth is denim does not provide protection, nor do any materials not designed for impact and abrasion resistance."
And this thread is supposed to be about rider's protective clothing?
I work with asphalt during the summer months. Add a 90+ deg. day to that and it's fun, especially with high humidity. For me even jeans are too hot. But unless I was going to ride on a track day I can't bring myself to wear leather pants and then hop on what amounts to a rolling pile of asphalt(pertaining to heat)just for the street. I wear all the other protective gear.
I've worn jeans and I haven't burned anything yet. Perhaps Buell should provide riders with heat resistant clothing upon purchase of an 1125.
Most OEM"s suggest wearing proper attire to protect from accidents not from the owners machines burning themselves.
Hit something hard enough or get hit by something big enough and it won't matter what you're wearing. |
Pariah
| | Posted on Saturday, August 16, 2008 - 08:54 pm: |
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Speaking of frame temperature, didn't someone mention on the forum that a larger amount of fuel in the tank can help drop temperature (presumably by providing a larger heat sponge)? Carrying more fuel seems to make a noticeable difference for me.
I wonder if the variation in temps that Doerman noticed were due to fuel load...
(Message edited by Pariah on August 16, 2008) |
Court
| | Posted on Saturday, August 16, 2008 - 09:08 pm: |
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>>>If Jeans are unsafe wear, why are they in the photos and videos on the Buell site? and most every motorcycle site?
Please tell me you are not allowing others, or websites, to make your safety decisions for you.
I **ALWAYS** wear Aerostich and didn't need to look at the Buell website to know I wanted to do everything I could to insure my ride was safe and ended happy. |
Palerider
| | Posted on Saturday, August 16, 2008 - 09:10 pm: |
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"Speaking of frame temperature, didn't someone mention on the forum that a larger amount of fuel in the tank can help drop temperature (presumably by providing a larger heat sponge)? Carrying more fuel seems to make a noticeable difference for me"
I guess that means we fill up and don't ride or you fill up every hour or so to keep things cool.That may make a difference but it'not that practical. |
Blake
| | Posted on Saturday, August 16, 2008 - 10:09 pm: |
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Hwyranger,
There is obviously something seriously wrong with your 1125R. Do you have any idea of the amount of the vast amounts of heat that would be required to cause the issue you describe? Please take the bike to your dealership and have it set right. |
Geforce
| | Posted on Saturday, August 16, 2008 - 10:19 pm: |
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I've been riding mine now for a few weeks, and have not had any issues with heat. I do wear all my gear but even in town a couple of weeks ago in just jeans I was good to go at stop lights. You should go to the parts store and get one of those IR temp guns, I have one for my turbo car. If your bike is seriously getting that hot, take some readings and post em. I am sure there is a number of things that can cause this. But I am wondering if the bikes with heat issues are some of the older 1125r's. |
Zac4mac
| | Posted on Saturday, August 16, 2008 - 10:26 pm: |
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There MUST be a big difference in some of these things, bike-to-bike.
From December to May, I was almost always wearing my one-piece Motoport suit or leather chaps over jeans.
Since May, I've almost always been in jeans.
The last few weeks have been near or over 100˚ ambient.
Not even red on my legs, much less blisters.
12,024 miles on the Odo.
Z |
Josh_
| | Posted on Saturday, August 16, 2008 - 10:46 pm: |
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I ran a track day at Hallett (Jennings, OK) a couple weeks back. Ambient was 98? Sessions were 20min.
Bike never got as hot as hwyrangers. |
Pariah
| | Posted on Saturday, August 16, 2008 - 10:55 pm: |
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My frame gets extremely hot... too hot to touch with bare skin comfortably, even after short (15 minute) rides. I thought this was normal, especially with the hot weather we've been having lately.
Since many of you think otherwise, I may give Customer Service a call... |
Dynasport
| | Posted on Saturday, August 16, 2008 - 11:15 pm: |
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Just to  I agree that jeans are not proper riding gear. Still, that is what I ride in. I have nice and safe jackets. Good gloves. A great helmet. Nice boots. But I am still riding in jeans. I just haven't found any riding pants I wanted to spend my money on yet. I am planning to buy some soon...
Anyway, as I have posted before, a few months ago I had a fairly low speed unscheduled dismount wearing a textile jacket and jeans. And boots, gloves, and helmet of course. The boots, gloves and helmet all did great. I got a bit of road rash on my forearm through my textile jacket, even though the jacket remained intact. I also got a small bit of road rash on my hip through my jeans. The jeans remained intact as well.
I don't know exactly what to make of this. I don't know exactly how fast I was going when I went down, as my concentration was on other things (I was doing my best to stop), but I don't think it was very fast.
Since I got road rash through denim AND through a textile jacket I don't trust either very much. Still, I ride in very hot weather most of the time and I just can't see myself riding in leathers very much of the year.
The accident has made me more conscientious about wearing my jacket though, because even though I was a bit disappointed in the protection it provided I am thankful I had it on instead of just a t-shirt. In fact, I haven't ridden since without an armored jacket on.
Well, gotta go. Need to go riding pants shopping. |
Hwyranger
| | Posted on Saturday, August 16, 2008 - 11:32 pm: |
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The bike has been at the dealership since Thursday morning for them to figure what's wrong. |
Doerman
| | Posted on Saturday, August 16, 2008 - 11:44 pm: |
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Takis
Tank level does not matter on my bike. Full or low, the frame temp is the same.
If I fill'er up just before I come home, obviously it will cool the frame. But there no need with my bike to make that a routine.
I ride in jeans all the time. The ICCON kevlar reinforced ones. But they are not insulated in the thigh area and do not offer anything over regular Levis or Wranglers in terms of heat protection.
I also ride in "business casual" when I commute. Same thing, no ill effects.
(Message edited by doerman on August 16, 2008) |
Buellsrule
| | Posted on Sunday, August 17, 2008 - 12:02 am: |
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My experience with the heat issue. I rode an 1125R back in April at Barber's. My riding buddy also rode one at the same time as I did. We rode the bikes in advance and were out front with the lead rider and pushing the bikes very hard. When we came back to the pits after the 20 min. session I didn't notice any discomfort or heat issue with the bike at all. My buddy however got off of his bike and was clearly in pain. His right foot was very uncomfortable and he had a riding suit and racing boots. These bikes are not all the same. It will be interesting to discover what the real issues are. I hope the next re-flash and the '09 models reveal the real problem. Ride safe, BR. |
Palerider
| | Posted on Sunday, August 17, 2008 - 08:04 am: |
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As I said in an earlier post I've never burned anything, but I agree with Pariah. I don't know how quickly it reaches the hottest condition only that on warm days you won't put your bare hand on the frame for long without real discomfort. |
Clarkjw
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - 11:41 am: |
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There are a few people being very negative toward those who acknoledge the 2008's problems and want something done about it.
Buell will have the final say in what is done. But, how is forcing them to acknowlege problems bad? Much good has come from the discussions on this forum. Any 1125R owner should appreciate it. |
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