| Author | Message | ||
     Koz5150 |
Have you seen the new sport rider? They did a full review of the 1125r. Guess what, Fuel mapping issues yet again. Is fuel mapping rocket science? I just don't get it. Overall they said it was a step in the right direction, but for $12,000 they questioned whether it was worth it. One interesting point, they said Buell told them they were still working on new fuel maps that will be sent to dealers. Keep your ears open. They also commented how as the bike heated up it was sweating fuel onto the frame while at stoplights. Nice feature??? In an unrelated article in Motorcyclist they just completed a long term review of the Uly. Guess what??? after two attempts by the dealer to remap the fuel system, the bike would still stall and stumble. I just don't get it??? If Buell can't figure it out, maybe they should think about finding someone else to do it, or offer the 1125c (with the c standing for carberator!) Don't take this personal, but ANYONE who orders a 1125r or the new 1125cr, must be deaf, dumb, blind, or have $12,000 to throw out the window. *** DISCLAIMER *** I am a Buell fan and do not want to be accused of being a hater. I know I have brought up the fuel thing multiple times before, only in the hopes that BUELL will fix the problem. To those who will talk about us riders being a promoter, I will be just that, once they have a product that is worth promoting, right now, (as it has been since 2003) they have not produced one. | ||
| Rick_a |
It was probably over-filled. It's a sportbike with a liquid-cooled V-Twin. Hell, even my modded S1 runs a bit rough below 4000 rpm and it's a 6800 RPM motor. We've had very few issues with them. One guy wanted a new bike even after his was re-mapped and the transmission jet recall done. He called Buell and we gave him one. No difference except these things were done before delivery this time. As far as the stumbling and stalling issues a lot I think is due to loaded up plugs due to not allowing a proper warm-up on the air-cooled Buells. That's been a long standing issue with all XB12's that's always been rectified with owner adjustments. | ||
| Spiderman |
Did an 1125 run over your mother? | ||
| Xl1200r |
Not deaf, not blind, not dumb, and can't afford to throw away $12, let alone $12 thousand. I test rode an 1125R. My dealer got my money. I'm happy. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Was the bike tested equipped with the 09 fuel map? Just because there have been announcements of updates, it doesn't mean that the bike they tested was actually using the new map. Sometimes "news" reports are echoes of old news. (Message edited by FT_BSTRD on August 15, 2008) | ||
| Bigeasy |
  Yep thats me deaf dumb blind. Come on I think this getting blown way out of proportion. Have you ridden one?   | ||
| Koz5150 |
If it is blown out of proportion then answer this: 1. Every mag that reviewed the 1125 at the orginal press release commented how test bikes were stalling, overheating, and running ruff. 2. Every review I have read to date comments about the fueling issues below 4,000 rpm. (not echo's, actual lengthy reviews) 3. Why would they (Sportrider) comment that Buell is still working on updated fuel maps if there isn't a problem? In the article it talks about how the power shut off then came on full due to a "stumble" in the power delivery at the track. That would be fun in a corner for an average rider. Spidey... No an 1125r did not run over my mother. I am just pissed that we (US sport bike guys) have a bike we are supposed to believe in, and it just doesn't measure up to other bikes for the same price. Now I am not saying when I bought my M2 for $7400 new that is was as good as any new 600 on the market in 2002, but at least the bike had character. To me the tubers will always be the bike the Sportster should have become. They were cool. The 1125 seems like a true sportbike... without the sport or the refinement of any of the big four 1000cc bikes that you can get for the same price or less. Let's put it this way. If i was taking a trip and spent $12,000 on a Buell. I am not sure I would feel confident that I would make it home that day without an incident of some sort. You shouldn't have to say that about a new bike. For those of you above who own one, more power to you. However, I would love to talk to you in 5 years to see if your bike still runs, whether you still have it, and what you would say about your time on it. P.S. I would like to ride one, however my local dealership (a former 2 time Pegasus award winner) is considering dropping the brand. They currently do not have a Buell salesman on the floor so I wouldn't even know who to talk to about taking it out. Besides, I have no intention of owning one becuase they are butt ugly (with the cr version looking like the bike is going backwards or the "hardbags" are mounted on the front) so I don't feel right putting miles on what should be somone elses bike. If anyone actually buys it... | ||
| Schmitty |
I find these posts hilarious. They start out "I'm a Buell fan" and then proceed to piss all over the brand and the bikes. I don't know how long you've been reading the motorcycle mags, but they have a habit of pissing all over anything that isn't Japanese or a $40,000 Italian Superbike with headlights. There hasn't been a bike that Buell has produced that any of the magazines have liked. Secondly, why the hell would you ride an 1125R below 4000 rpm any way. Look at the torque curve 5000 rpm is where the real party starts. And finally if you haven't ridden one, save the comments until you have and form your own opinion. I've ridden one on the street and the track, the thing is a monster! If you don't like the look, fine you can't please everybody! But don't judge a book by it's cover, there's a lot of character in this bike if you know where to look. I have a Buell t-shirt that says, "There's No Pride In Obeying!" Words to live by I think. What fun is it to own a bike that is just each companies warmed over take on an I4 sportbike? Schmitty | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Not ALL of the 1125R's have these fueling problems. Some folks have issues. Buell knows this. Yes there IS a problem. Why post information about an article that is old news. Sport Rider is just NOW discovering that 2008 1125R's have fueling issues? What took them so long to do the review? Sucky magazine if you ask me. Every other decent magazine has already done a write up on the 1125R and made the same conclusions. Buell understands this and has and is pushing out new fuel maps for downloads on 08's as well as new fuel maps for 09's. Don't test ride an 08. Save it for an 09 and see if the bike is as bad as you've READ. | ||
| Bill0351 |
"Don't test ride an 08. Save it for an 09 and see if the bike is as bad as you've READ." Yeah.... Great ad campaign! The 2009 BUELL 1125R! "Not as bad as you heard it was!" Wait! The 2009 Buell 1125R! "Pretty sure we have it sorted out now!" Some of you make is sound like READING about bikes is some pathetic and invalid source of information. If I was shopping for a bike and READING magazines to narrow the field, I doubt I would even bother taking the 35 mile trip to take that test ride. Buell has to be viewing the press for the 1125R as nothing short of a marketing disaster. It may end up being one of the greatest sport bikes of all time, but good luck selling them to "no preference" bike brand people who read the early reviews. Bill | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Reading is a valid way to collect data, but at some point you have to actually experience the bike for yourself to see if it does or doesn't work for you. By the descriptions of the Uly, it was 19 feet tall with a fused triple tree that prevented you turning the bike at all and idled like a jackhammer, fell over at the sight of any mud puddle, ran out of gas every 15 miles, and fell apart 5 minutes after you started it up. There isn't a day that goes by that I don't long to jump on mine and ride it for hours. One of the hardest things to get right is fuel mapping (see all of the ECMSpy threads on BW) and so easy to correct once you do get it dialed in. One of the reasons Buell was collecting data at track events was, in my estimation, to help them to round out the real world fuel mapping. They knew they still didn't have it dialed in. Unfortunately, the 08 model year has been a beta test. Conversely, if the rest of the bike is sorted out and the fuel mapping is the last thing, it will get fixed eventually. God knows NO other bike has ever had fuel mapping issues. | ||
| Spatten1 |
The 1125 I test rode ran like dog shit below 4k. Buell seems to make consistent bad decisions when it comes to fuel injection. How the XB system was designed with no MAP or baro sensor blows my friggin' mind. I've heard all the reasons/rationalizations from Anony, but that did not help Ray when he was stalling out on a 12,500 foot pass. DDFI 3 includes the right sensors, but just isn't getting good mileage or running smoothly. It seems to me that Buell has reinvented the wheel with DDFI, and it does not work as well as alternatives that are readily available. I say walk across the hall and work with the HD guys, their open loop systems work great. | ||
| Bigeasy |
Great you hate the looks and the bike without even trying one. Forming your opinon from what some mag says. I get it and can respect that. Maybe I just got the only good one? I have made some changes to the bike to address some of the issues you talk about. Very easy to do and not much time involved. The Ducati 1098 was far from perfect when it was released also. Along with ktms rc8 and even the new honda CBR1000. I have seen problems with two of these bikes in person. I dont agree at all with you about japans bikes having more sport in them. The 1125r seems to be doing just fine on tracks all over the world. Even when it is in completely stock form! Its a good start that I think will only get better. Ah screw it I dont know why I am rambling on. As it seems buell in general is a love it or hate kind of bike. You know which side I am on. I think we were on the same side until Buell got rid of the tubers? Maybe? Enjoy your bike, ride on. By the way I like the hard bags on the front. Reminds me of a fighter plane!! Work is done for the day and I am off to ride my inferior bike. If we ever get to meet though I have to warn you. I will demand that you get your ass on the seat of my 1125r and ring her neck. My money says you will change your mind as many others have. We are the Buell resistance is futile!! Oh yes I am aware I cant spell! Math is a different stoy though! | ||
| Bill0351 |
"Reading is a valid way to collect data, but at some point you have to actually experience the bike for yourself to see if it does or doesn't work for you." I couldn't agree with you more, but those articles/magazines act as gate-keepers for lots of people. They are the ones who convince people to come in and take that test ride. Like it or not, their opinions are important to people who haven't already developed myopic brand loyalty. For once, I would like to see a review that gives Buell a 100% enthusiastic endorsement for both performance and value. I don't mean that with any sarcasm at all. I really want Buell to knock one out of the park! WAY OUT! I think that's what most of us on this site want. Bill | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Oh, I'm not happy about the fueling problem. I'm tired of Buell beta testing products on the general public. The two latest examples are the 06 Uly and the 08 1125R. There is no reason these issues shouldn't have been worked out prior to launch. I would LOVE to see Buell get a hammer down review on all aspects. Until then, Buell will simply be this weird bike manufacturer with a cult following. | ||
| Koz5150 |
Hell yeah, I want to see them knock it out of the park. I think the S1 was a definate homerun. Like I said, I have seen the bike in person, it just does nothing for me, except make me want to turn the other way. I did ride the XB series bikes. It was kinda neat, but If I had to give up my M2 for it, it wouold never happen. I was a muscule car guy and the tubers remind me of a sixties Camaro. The XB's and the 1125's do nothing for me. If fuel mapping is so tough, then why has every review of the XR1200 praised the smooth fuel delivery? Aren't Buell and Harley related? You sure wouldn't know it by the reviews. I tell everyone how cool Buell tubers are, then I tell them there is no way I could suggest they buy an 1125 or an XB. I support Buell the same way I would a sports team. If they suck... I am going to yell BOO!!! | ||
| Oddsc |
After dealing with a stumbling, coughing, popping Uly, I'd never buy a 1125, even though it's exactly the bike I'm looking for and want. Just reading that it has the same or maybe worse problems completely takes it out of contention for my next bike. It's just not something a customer should have to deal with on a $12,000 purchase. I also have a hard time comprehending that fueling a motor can be that difficult. What gives? Buell has so much going for them, but if they don't make this their #1 priority they aren't going to be around another 25 years. Like it or not, magazine articles form real decision making opinions, especially for people who might not normally consider Buell & these are exactly the people they were trying to impress with the 1125. | ||
| Schmitty |
Koz, What's wrong with the XB series? Just because they're not your thing doesn't mean they suck. The XB series has had far fewer problems than the the Tubers ever had. Buell's current direction is motivated by 2 things. Emissions being the first. Sooner or later the air cooled motor just isn't going to make it any more. It has it's limitations. Secondly, the current sportbike buyer isn't looking for a '60s muscle car. They're looking for the latest technology and electronic gadgetry. Of which the Tubers have none. The mags keep feeding the "spec sheet is king" mentality. Buell had to go the Rotax direction because a Harley engine can't make the power needed to compete with the Japanese and Italian bikes. Most of the buyers are only concerned with going fast in a straight line any way. The air cooled XB bikes put a premium on handling over all out power. That doesn't click with your average squid, so they had to come up with a bike with power to match the handling. Again the Tubers had neither. I happen to love my XB. As a matter of fact it makes one hell of a race bike! Please don't piss on my parade over aesthetics. If you don't like the XB's or the 1125R, stop reading about them in the magazines and stick to the Tuber Forum. Schmitty | ||
| Rick_a |
I can understand some fueling issues initially, but poorer mileage for a supposedly improved FI system is inexcusable. If I would've taken the moto rags or even the internet jabber to heart I would've never purchased a tuber. Huge torque dip, shakes like a paintshaker, random parts break or fall off at every ride, cooks right legs like a roast, has so little steering lock tight maneuvers are impossible, has the build quality of an amateur assembled kit bike, etc, etc. Some are true to some extent, but it's still the funnest bike I've ever rode...and that's what matters most to me. The XB's are a huge leap ahead in all areas. People I know have done over 20,000 miles replacing maybe some rocker or base gaskets (usually while under warranty) and perhaps a battery. I've replaced almost everything inside my engine in as many miles. I feel the 1125's are another step ahead. Granted the fuelling needs refinement, but it'll come...no doubt. Buell is doing better than it ever has. Hell, it took them 15 years to make the tubers right  . The 1125R seems to finally be the first Buell to make a better racebike than streetbike (at least that's what moto journalists seem to be saying)...then everyone bitches about it  (Message edited by Rick_A on August 16, 2008) | ||
| Miamiuly |
All I know is that I put a power commander, ignition module and slip-on on my 05 zx10r to get it to fuell the way I wanted. No stalling or anything but it wasn't smooth, and that bike won EVERYTHING (except races!) in the magazines. Masterbike in 04 and 05. just sayin' | ||
| Gtmg |
I think the real question asked in this thread: Why isn't Buell using the HD technology for their fuel injection? It seems to work extremely well. I know there is some collaboration but it seems like there should be much more especially in aesthetic design and technology on both sides. Why reinvent the wheel when having common systems is a big plus to dealers and mechanics? (Message edited by gtmg on August 16, 2008) | ||
| Spatten1 |
FB: well said. I must be a total squid because the magazine reviews of the XR have me wanting to buy my first Harley. The mag reviews reinforced my riding impression of the 1125 fueling, spot on in my opinion. | ||
| Spatten1 |
Why reinvent the wheel when having common systems is a big plus to dealers and mechanics? It's funny, because re-inventing the wheel is what makes Buells cool and interesting, but it is also what can make them a pain in the ass. | ||
| Bombardier |
Have been researching the Engine Temperature Sensor used on our bikes. This seems to be the common factor in the stumbling issue below 4000 rpm. The factory service manual states that variances of up to 20% are within spec and that the sensor can sometimes 'Shift'. 20% is quite a large variance for a system that deals in thousands of a second for injection pulse timing and ignition cycles. I have sourced an aero spec glue on sensor which is accurate to plus or minus 1.5% however the outputs are very different to the standard item. It remains to be seen whether the table can be adjusted to suit. If it works out I will let you all know. I have been told that the cable use on the standard sensor is not supposed to be exposed like it is to the heat encountered in the 'well' of the cylinder head. | ||
| Lost_in_ohio |
FT.....That is the best line ever Until then, Buell will simply be this weird bike manufacturer with a cult following. It goes with the 03, 06 and the 08 models. | ||
| Gtmg |
Hate to agree with FB but his line is dead on if we are honest about our bikes. My frustration level is high because I strongly feel that Buell can do better and not just a little better a lot better. They really have some great engineers and people. There really is no reason for stumbling and excessive heat. These are solvable problems especially the heat on the bikes. I have been in the red headed step child situation in my career. There are alot of things you can do with that to spur creativeness and success but you have to blend that with a willingness to look at what the mothership is doing and steal their best ideas as well. I think Buell misses that last component which would help their bikes be better. | ||
| 46champ |
I agree that Buell shouldn't have had as many problems with the 08's. But if you think the media will ever be 100% behind Buell, they could be building the finest bike on the planet, YOU"RE SMOKING CRACK. The media will never say an American manufacture has ever built anything better than what is available from overseas that is NOT what their taught in journalism school. | ||
| Bill0351 |
"The media will never say an American manufacture has ever built anything better than what is available from overseas that is NOT what their taught in journalism school." That quote is just plain goofy. When, in recent memory, has an American motorcycle manufacturer built anything that seriously competes with the world's best when you look at things from an objective standpoint? Four out of my last six bikes have been American, but not because any of them were the best bikes available in their class. I wanted them for different reasons. You can't ask a reviewer to give the win to a bike when it is more expensive than the competition and doesn't perform as well. When our country builds a bike that is an unqualified success in its category, THEN we have a right to complain about our treatment by the motorcycle media. It's as simple as that. | ||
| 46champ |
I'm not just talking about motorcycles I'm talking about American products in general with the the example bing motorcycles. They (the media) will always find something wrong with an American product just to qualify their review of a product. This is probably founded on some need to not be seen as a patriotic flag waver. After the 1125 problems get sorted out and they're almost glowing with pride, they will stop and start writing about recalls on the tubers or the fact that XB's stood up under braking of course they won't mention that was with Dunlop tires. YOU MARK MY WORDS THIS WILL ALL HAPPEN. | ||
| Doerman |
Not so sure. The cynical me here thinks the magazines are directing their attention to where their income stream is coming from. If a product that generates less advertising revenue for them rises to the top it does present a problem for the mags. Some mags deal with it in an honest way other do not. The magazines also have to cater to the mainstream amongst their readers. It's about survival and growth. With the 08 1125R there have been issues rightfully pointed out. However the silliest and most obvious misrepresentation of the 1125R was the magazine that referred to steering as "wonky". It sets things up for a difficult 09 review season for Buell in that they have to exceed expectations by a long shot. I happen to think Buell is up to the challenge. Some magazines will recognize the progress and some will not. |
