| Author | Message | ||||
     Buplaux |
Can't believe owners actually just think that surging and popping is "just the nature of the beast"...That statement is completely untrue. This is not an opinion, this is a fact. That is just a poorly tuned engine, unfortunately it comes from the factory that way. I realize not everyone has the ability to data log or make changes to the ecm but for those that do I highly suggest it. In a nutshell the bike likes a lot more timing at the lower tps settings across the board(cruising range) & 5 degrees added to the idle zone(all 6 of the squares). Datta log for at least an hour or more & hit as many cells as you can. Run the analyzer in meggalog. use that for the rear map & tweak (using ecmspy) front using the percentage differences that was posted in excell format in a recent post by someone.
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| Randomchaos |
How is your MPG with these changes? | ||||
| Court |
>>>Why do so many owners SETTLE for the bucking & surging????? Look. . . these are the women we chose. | ||||
| Swordsman |
LOL, but if I can turn my cute girl-next-door into world class supermodel, shoot, why not?  ~SM | ||||
| Buellinachinashop |
"Can't believe owners actually just think that surging and popping is "just the nature of the beast"..." I can't believe somebody would buy one and not expect it. | ||||
| Buplaux |
mpg is right around 50 average. | ||||
| Skully |
Good info Jeff. Are you data logging with the OEM O2 sensor? Thanks, Keith | ||||
| Randomchaos |
I just noticed you talked about adjusting the timing, you can do that in ECMspy, or do you still have to manually look through the trap door for the dot? | ||||
| Swordsman |
I believe you set the static timing through the window (factory manual method), then tinker with the timing tables via ECMSpy. ~SM | ||||
| Buplaux |
Stock 02 sensor works, just do more data logging to offset its shortcomings(should give you a pretty good average). You can change all timing values in ecmspy. | ||||
| Werewulf |
i turn a pretty good wrench, but i wouldnt have a clue how to do this, nor does any for the dealer techs that ive talked to... | ||||
| Voofighters |
Seriously, if i understood this process better, was fairly certain it would smooth out my 08' XB (aka WORK), I would go out and buy an ECMSpy + cables. | ||||
| Birdy |
Well I know I could solve my bikes problem doing this...by the time I was done it wouldn't run at all! See no bucking or backfire that way! If I could find a someone who knew what they were doing I'd pay to have it done BUT I know I'd be in over my head in a second. | ||||
| Buplaux |
Don't be intimidated. Ecmspy is really easy to use. Building the cable is the hardest thing and that is easy also(some for sale on ebay premade). Besides you can play with it until you feel comfortable enough to actually make a change to the eeprom. | ||||
| Birdy |
Buplaux looks like you live about two hours away from me! I might show up one day with a dead Buell asking for help! | ||||
| Deanbush |
You can buy the EcmSpy cable from battsracing.com. I also have read about the popping and that it occurs when you let off of the throttle and start engine braking. What does the popping sound like and does this cause the surging or vice versa. I have a 2006 XB12ss and I have never experinced this problem. I have EcmSpy and cable fetched and saved all stock maps,eprom and have not yet changed any settings. Thanks, Dean | ||||
| Werewulf |
ive inquired of several aftermarket companys, to find a cure for the 08 problem.... they all told me that its still in the works and no solution so far...very discouraging... | ||||
| Buplaux |
Deanbush, The deccell popping is not what I am referring to. I am referring to the hesitation(stumble) when you open the throttle from a closed position. The popping in the engine braking zone is no big deal. I actually like it. Usually get it with a free flowing exhaust regardless of what engine it is. | ||||
| Viper9885 |
well i was on the fence about it, but after reading this post i went and bought the ECMSpy cable.......now i just need to figure out where my ECM is....  | ||||
| Typeone |
i reworked Mesozoic's Excel sheet to use the 07 Race values and have been using that to alter the front map. here it is in case anyone wants it. thanks again Mesozoic!
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| Buplaux |
Trying to post maps again. Ok I think this one worked. It is my full eeprom. Try saving it and opening ecmspy and click load eeprom, then load this file to see the timing maps. (Message edited by buplaux on August 15, 2008) | ||||
| Viper9885 |
I'm just going to throw this out there, because at first I was intimidated too. For all of you that are worried about being able to use ECMSpy....Don't be, because once you look at the programming and see how it does what it does, it's fairly simple. It is mostly just a form of estimated math. get the bike on the dyno with a wideband on it (you can probably get 2 hours of dyno time at a local shop for less than 200 bucks, the place around here is 80 an hour for use & tune)and make a pass. That's pretty much it, you will see all your info in a somewhat spreadsheet form and just trust yourself and take a stab at it. The only way you can do MORE physical harm to a bike that's already poorly tuned (if it wasn't we wouldn't be talking about this right now) is by: 1. Advancing timing too much and igniting too far before TDC 2. Taking away too much fuel and running too lean (and I've never tuned a V-twin before but i would imagine that there would be a third point here and that is if the two cylinders are tuned too differently as to cause problems) It's just like suspension tuning: 1. Save your base map 2. Make small noted adjustments at a time 3. just take your time and feel it out. (2 hours of dyno time is a long time) a key thing to remember is that 14.7 is Stoic which is perfect A/F ratio. anything Higher than 14.7 is LEANER and anything lower is RICHER. i would think on a bike like this you would shoot for anywhere between 14.2 and 15. A little leaner isn't going to kill you, but if it is shooting up to and above 16.5-17 at WOT........i would be crossing my fingers  . Like i said before I'm not a pro bike tuner or anything, but i have tuned alot of finicky turbo cars and the first time was intimidating but trust me its fairly easy. | ||||
| Xoptimizedrsx |
the hesitation on full throttle is easyly fixed its a fuel over fueling stumble in acceleration table. at 800 and 1200 rpm make the 800 % value a 175 to start. then change the 1200 rpm to 1600 rpm then make the % a 135. this is a good overall starter set of numbers to fix the low idle rpm to wot stumble. then also adjust the wot % gain as well as open loop % matching the open loop % timer factory set to 3 seconds delay to apply. set it to no delay a zero .. all this is done in ecmspy. there is many ways to get a good tune in the fuel maps but thats only part of it applying the fuel table properly before building the map is the key to smooth useable power. if you lock out the open loop learn you can apply the fuel at a 13.6 afr this get max power. then set the stioch read value to target the ego to apply a stioch of 14.5 everything changes. as i have been doing this for over two yrs on race bikes and the hot street bikes i converted from other maps. try it you will see a big difference. a little dyno time with this setup and it totally different. mike (Message edited by xoptimizedrsx on August 16, 2008) | ||||
| Red_chili |
Seriously, if i understood this process better, was fairly certain it would smooth out my 08' XB (aka WORK), I would go out and buy an ECMSpy + cables. Sadly, ECMSpy is not compatible with the '08 XBs. Yet. | ||||
| Quadracer70 |
I would love to do this, but I like to ride more than I like to push.  | ||||
| Bartimus |
"Look. . . these are the women we chose" sorry Court, I still have 5 other Buells in my stable, one of them being an XB. NONE of them exhibit the problems my '08 XT has. It is really giving me issues, and I'm certainly having thoughts of going to a better brand. These Fuel mapping issues need to be worked out, and WORKED OUT NOW!!! I'll always love my tubers, and my XB9 runs great, but I don't think I would EVER buy another XB12... | ||||
| Xodot |
I bought my 2000 S3 last year (all stock), downloaded ECM Spy this spring and copied my friends Race ECM right away.... then it took me until this week to get the courage to change my stock fuel maps to the race ECM values. It took me that long because like many who have added their comments to this thread - and the many who read it without comment - I was afraid of messing my baby up. ECM Spy tuning is dead easy to do. Now I could talk anyone through the steps in 2 minutes. I am now considering making enhancements to the race fuel maps, but I have a lot more to learn first and I'll take the baby steps. May I offer encouragement if you are hesitating in using this fantastic and easy tool? Tuning with ECM Spy is no more dangerous to your bike than carb tuning. Like any other work you will do on your Buell for the first time, it is exciting, requires some effort to learn, is drop dead gorgeous easy and very rewarding. | ||||
| Jmk015 |
Buplaux, Thanks for posting this. Is the tune you posted for a stock Ulysses? If not, can you list the mods that work with your tune? Thanks! |
front fuel percentage difference from rear
MAPS
fuelmap_delta_07XB12Race