| Author | Message | ||
     Blake |
Pat, I run mine towards the low side of the 1/2 quart range indicated on the dipstick. You did check the oil immediately after shutting down the bike right? With the bike upright and level, right? Sorry, gotta ask.  | ||
| Pwest |
(You did check the oil immediately after shutting down the bike right? With the bike upright and level, right? Sorry, gotta ask. ) Yes I did all that. I had been trying to keep it at half way but the other day oil came out the breather hose so i figured that I had put in to much. PAT02M2 3500mi.. | ||
| Prof_Stack |
Amsoil vs Mobil 1: Any significant differences between them when used in the motor or gearbox of Buells? | ||
| Blake |
Amsoil condones very shady marketing tactics among some of their representatives. Very disappointing. The oil is reportedly good. I don't buy it. If BuellieDan lived nearby, I might purchase some from him though. He is very honest. | ||
| Andrewb |
"OK I have a question. I just changed my oil, put 2 qrts in, then went for a ride" A silly detail question, but...did you put oil into the new filter before installing it on the bike?? | ||
| Ccryder |
Andrew: I always fill my oil filter up at least 1/2 way before installation. Even then I will disconnect my fuel pump (I have a 00' X-1) and crank my engine until the oil light goes out before actually starting the engine. Then I run for 20 min. untill it's hot and check the oil level. Time2Roll Neil S. | ||
| Ara |
Good advice on the oil level. Bottom line is 2 quarts isn't enough. I've read several times before that the FL1A Ford-style filter is compatible with Buell 1203cc engines. Is there a downside??? Any first-hand bad experiences? Good ones? I truly don't want to start a major debate here, but I'm seriously considering using that filter and I want to make sure it's a good idea before I do. I have particular concern about the check valve in the filter. Thanks in advance! Russ | ||
| Cowboy |
Ara....I changed to the ford filter 3 oil changes back (7500 mi.) I am very happy with it when I change I put in 2 1/2 Qts. run bike for 2 or 3 miles than add the rest. I like having the full 3 qts.....Cowboy | ||
| Reepicheep |
Blake... Did the Nallins have any feedback on using the FL1A on your new engine? Last I heard, you were going to switch to that filter. Bill | ||
| Edv |
Be sure to put a hose clamp on these filters and safety wire them to the front exhaust mount so they can`t back off, I found out the hard way, lucky no damage other than an oil bath. Ed | ||
| Ara |
Ed: No kidding! I never thought of that. Cowboy: Thanks for the first-hand feedback. Blake: If you have some experience with FL1A filters, I'd appreciate hearing about it. I was at the store today and cross-referenced the FL1A to other brands. The first thing I saw was that in some applications you can use either an FL1A or an FL300. The FL300 is the same diameter but about 3/4 the height. Might be a good option. Fram has four different filters, all full size: One is their regular filter, one is a heavy duty application for SUVs that looks pretty good, another that supposedly progressively treats your engine with PTFE and I wouldn't try that on a bet, and another that has some nifty new filter medium that doesn't filter as well as the heavy duty one. The Fram filters have two specs, one for a single pass through the filter and another for multiple passes - given in percents. I find it difficult to understand how an oil filter can be 98% efficient on a single pass through the filter and 96% on multiple passes. I'm so confused! Does anybody know how to interpret that? Russ | ||
| Blake |
Reep, No, I still have a supply of the HD oil filters. Haven't switched to the FL1A yet. Ara, Probably the 98% single pass efficiency is for 30 micron particles and the 96% multi-pass efficiency is for 20 micron particles? Here's the deal on oil filters. The filter media cannot tolerate a significant pressure difference between inlet and outlet ports. The media would collapse. Like if you painted you air filter with tar and installed it. If you cranked the engine it would try to collapse the filter right? We cannot have the oil filter media collapsing inside its metal housing, so the filters include a spring loaded flapper type valve to allow oil to bypass the filter media and flow directly into the engine. So all modern automotive and motorcycle oil filter systems have a bypass valve that opens when the pressure delta (difference) across the filter media (between inlet and outlet) reaches a specified level. Oil filter media itself is designed with characteristics similar to those of air filters, to create as little flow restriction (pressure drop) as possible while maintaining the required filtering performance. If the flow rate is the same, a larger filter will present less restriction and more filtering capacity (will take on more particles before flow restriction activates the bypass valve). How does the bypass valve work, and how can a filter designed for an automotive high pressure system (40-60 psi) work properly in a low pressure system (~20 psi) like in our Buells? Imagine a filter with 60 psi coming from the oil pump, and a pressure drop across the filter media of only 1 psi resulting in an outlet pressure of 59 psi. What pressure delta does the bypass valve see? Only 1 psi. If the bypass valve is designed to open beginning at 3 psi, it doesn't matter if input (from oil pump) and outlet (to engine) are at 60 and 57 psi or 20 and 17 psi, respectively. The valve sees both situations as exactly the same, both put 3 psi across the valve. Just like when a diver descends to 100 feet depths, the pressure on his body is about 45 psi higher than when at the water's surface. How can the diver still breath with all that pressure acting to collapse his lungs? His regulator automatically supplies air at a comparable pressure so that all he need do is inhale to get the air valve to open and flow air, just like a bypass valve in an oil filter. Any questions? Blake (waitingforMaktocomeback) | ||
| Ara |
Blake: Thanks! Excellent information, as always. I see that if there's a significant pressure differential across the filter medium, the medium would either collapse or expand depending upon the direction of flow. And being a one-time SCUBA diver, I appreciate the clever analogy. So as long as the threads match and the mounting surface mates with the gasket on the filter, any filter will work. And the larger the filter, the more filter medium, and the more complete the filtration. Those are the basics, yes? So an FL1A (and to a slightly lesser degree, the FL300), being considerably larger than the H-D filters, are superior. Does anybody other than Cowboy have any first-hand experience to provide corroboration? OK, forgive me for continuing this discussion, but this certainly is the right place. K&N now offers an oil filter that has a CLEANABLE filter medium. I haven't seen the product myself, but I've seen advertisements. Anybody know anything about that? Blake, would you consider using the product? Russ | ||
| Ara |
My mistake. K&N does NOT offer an oil filter with a cleanable element. It's a replaceable filter, PM KN-171. Sorry for misfire. Russ | ||
| Blake |
I'd prefer to simply toss the old and install a new one rather than spend time cleaning a filter. | ||
| Reepicheep |
FYI... I am trying the FL1A... so far so good. I also looked at an old filter I had laying around from our old POS 96 Ford Windstar (pushrod V6, the bigger engine), and it appears it will attach just fine as well. I will probably try it on the next change. It is as long as the FL1A, but only about as big around as the stock sportster filter. Might make another good choice. The filter from our Toyota Sienna (which replaced the POS ford windstar after scary crank bearing noises started) looks like it will also fit, which is the same filter my Saturn uses. It is very close to the size of the Sportster filter. The Toyota factory filter (marked Denso) looked REALLY well made, better then the bosch, AC Delco, or Sportster filter. I put on a Bosch filter that crossed to the FL1A, as purchased at Auto Zone. It's nice as it is painted black already, and that big filter looks nice there on the side of the bike. I still could not quite get a full 3 quarts in there, but I did not pump out all the old oil, just drained the tank from the tube, replaced the filter (half full of oil), and filled the tank back up. Got probably 2.6 quarts in there, which with the leftover oil in the sump probably puts me over a 3 quart system. Interestingly, I filled the oil about 3/4 up the dipstick, which in the past would always then drool out my head breather all over my right knee on the next ride. Took it to the office today to drop off paperwork, and not a dribble at all, and was still reading 3/4 up the stick when I got back home. Could be coincidence, and the bike may be just waiting until I have an important meeting before it hoses down my right knee. That FL1a is a big honking filter, and in addition to the extra oil capacity (a good thing) probably has something like 4 times the filter surface area of the sportster filter. This should put less of a load on the oil pump, and keep the filter working better longer (seems to me). Short of any new news here, I think I will keep using it in the future. I still have to scare up a big hose clamp to secure it and make sure it does not un-thread. Autozone does not have one, I will have to run up to Home Depot. And I am SURE it is purely psychological, but I would SWEAR my Cyclone runs better on Mobil 1 V-Twin... For $7 per quart, I ought to be able to drink it with a nice steak dinnner... | ||
| Djkaplan |
If you have a couple of short hose clamps, you can make a larger one by unscrewing them and connecting the end of one into another one. You can pretty much make any clamp size you want if you have enough clamps. It's not as sanitary as having one properly sized clamp, but the info may come in handy in the future if you really need a big clamp and don't have one. I don't run a clamp on my filter and I've never had an unscrewing problem. | ||
| Ara |
I did some "research" down at Wal-Mart this afternoon. Here are my "findings." ;-) The Motorcraft FL300 oil filter may be used in any application that calls for the FL1A. The difference is the height of the can. The FL1A can is 5 inches from base to crown, while the FL300 is 3.5 inches. Both are 3 5/8 inches in diameter. Both compare favorably with the 3 1/4 inch height and 2 7/8 inch diameter of the short Sporty/Buell filter. The FL1A cross references to the Fram PH8A, TG8A, DG8A, and XG8A filters, the AC Delco PF2 and PF20 filters, the Purelator L30001 and L30119 filters, and the Penzoil PZ-1 filter. The FL300 cross references to the Fram PH16, TG16, DG16, and XG16 filters, the AC Delco PF13, PF2, and PF20 filters, the Pureloator L10017 and L14670 filters, and the Penzoil PZ-34 filter. The four grades of the Fram filters bear further inspection. In order of "grade" and price, they are as follows: - Regular "PH" series filters: 96% single-pass efficiency, 94% multi-pass efficiency. (Honeywell tested according to SAE standard tests HS806 and J1858.) The color is Fram orange with a black crinkle finish on the top third. - Tough Guard "TG" series filters: 98% single-pass efficiency, 99% multi-pass efficiency. This model has a screen over the bypass valve to provide a little filtering when cold starting, a filter medium composed of synthetic glass and cellulose, a silicone anti-drainback valve, and a PTFE coated exterior gasket. Color is medium grey with crinkle black finish on top third. - Double Guard "DG" series filters: 96% single-pass efficiency, no multi-pass figure given. Treats engine with Teflon PTFE. Filter medium is synthetic. Color is gloss black. - Extended Guard "XG" series filters: 96% single-pass efficiency, no multi-pass figure given. Synthetic "Triad" filter medium encased in steel mesh, PTFE coated exterior gasket, silicon anti-drainback valve. The hype says it's good for 7,000 miles. It's in a sealed can, so I couldn't determine the color. If anybody is interested, I can run do the same kind of "research" on the AC Delco and Purelator filters tomorrow. For my money, I think I like the Fram TG filters. The screen over the bypas valve makes some sense to me as does the anti-drainback valve. The PTFE coated gasket is a caution, though, and I think I'd go with Ed's hose clamp/safety wire trick to make sure it stays on. Comments??? Russ | ||
| Anon_R |
Blake, A link to this page at the top? Like the TG? Look here http://minimopar.net/oilfilters.html look under filters to avoid. http://minimopar.net/oilfilterstudy.html | ||
| Bomber |
ARA just got back from autozone with my brand spankey new XG8A oil filter . . . . .opened the sealed can (silly hype-induced packaging) and found a machinary gray filter, with the knubbly black coating on the outboard end (to ease installation/removal, I spose) . . . . looks like it belongs on a big, multi-ton forklift truck . . . . perfect for my M2! | ||
| Ara |
Thanks, Bomber, I wondered what those things looked like. Evidently somebody out there who has devoted some time and energy to filter construction (see Anon_R's post immediately above your own) isn't too fond of Fram filters. According to that web site, Fram filters all use cardboard end caps that are simply glued to the filter element. Unfortunately, the site confuses the regular line of Fram oil filters (the PH series) with the Extra Guard (EG) series. Not sure how a guy who has obviously devoted a LOT of time and effort to the subject could make that mistake, but he does list the Fram Tough Guard (the TG series) as the only Fram filters that ar worth anything. There's evidently quite a bit to know about oil filter design and construction, and whoever put that site together isn't a casual observer by any stretch. I hope the XG8A serves you well! Russ | ||
| Ara |
Ah, NOW I know where I saw that reusable/cleanable oil filter: ASB. It's PN #6090, costs $119.95, and is all stainless steel. Anybody got one who wants to share their experience/impressions with the group?? (BTW, I've e-mailed Tat and asked him for additional info/specs.) Russ | ||
| Ara |
More oil filter information: MOBIL 1 filters: - PN M1-301 is equivalent to FL1A - PN M1-204 is equivalent to F300 - Both are $11.99 at Auto Zone - Single Pass Efficiency: 98% - Multiple Pass Efficienty: 95% - Synthetic filter medium - Medium grey in color - This thing is a hoss! It is very noticeably heavier than other equivalent filters - Baseplate has 8 holes around central mounting hole. BOSCH filters: - PN 3500 is equivalent to FL1A - PN 3402 is equivalent to F300 - Both are $5.49 at Auto Zone - Single Pass efficiency: 98% - Multiple Pass Efficiency: 93% - Filter medium is a combination of paper and synthetic fibers - Gloss black in color - Base plate has 6 holes around central mounting hole STP filters: - PN S8A is equivalent to FL1A - PN S16 is equivalent to FL300 - Both are $2.99 at Auto Zone - No evidence of bypass valve - Terrible electric blue in color - Base plate has 6 holes around central mounting hole - No efficiency ratings given | ||
| Ara |
Info from Tat on ASB's cleanable/reusable stainless steel oil filter: - Filters to 35 microns - 304 stainless steel material - Flows approx 57 gallons per minute - Adhesive in material rated at 600 degrees - Nickle plated rare earth magnets - Can be cleaned and reused indefinitely - $119.95 Is 35 microns good or not so good??? | ||
| Reepicheep |
I put that bosch on my Cyclone last week. So far it looks and works great. It has a nice black finish. STP has a filter that lists as a direct replacement for the Sportsters. Got it, looked at it, tried to thread it on, immediately threw it away. Total piece of crap. I am glad the threads were so bad it would not even fit, otherwise I would have been tempted to use it, and I hate to think how bad it would have been for the bike. The Bosch seemed to be pretty well made, but the filter that came off my Toyota Sienna minivan seemed even better (marked Denso), and looked like it would fit (smaller then the FL1a, bigger then the sportster). It felt a lot like the Mobil 1 (that looked great but was very pricey). That same filter fits my Saturn SC2 if anyone is looking for crossovers. I may price the Toyota filters just to see if they are competitive, and if so may put that one filter on all three my vehicles (Sienna minivan, Saturn SC2, Buell Cyclone). If not, the Bosch seem a pretty good balance between cost and quality, and I like that big honking FL1A on the Cyclone, looks right at home beside my tractor muffler Thanks for all the legwork Ara! | ||
| Ara |
Glad to do it Reepicheep. I've really learned something in the process. I run a BilletCool spin-on oil cooler on my S3, So I think that the full FL1A-size filter might be a little much. But I think that the FL300-size filters would look good and would have quite a bit more filtering area in them than the short H-D filters I've been using all along. Gonna start bying NAPA filters for my Nissan truck and Mobil 1 filters for the S3. I've got one more H-D filter to use, though. It'll be OK for the winter months and then I'll swap out for the larger filter when I service the bike again in the spring. I sure would like to hear from anybody who has used the resuable ASB filter. Russ | ||
| Prof_Stack |
So I stop at the HD dealership and ask the guy at the counter which synthetic gear lube I should use for the Buell. He starts "I tell all my customers that ... HD spent millions of $$ developing the lubrication for their motors ... roller bearings can stop rolling and start sliding with synthetic oil ... your Buell tranny actually needs a dual purpose lubricant for the clutch/primary ... HD won't help you if your motor has a problem if you've been using synthetic ... several of my mechanics swear against using synthetics ..." Is this the party line or what? Oh, this multi-brand dealership had Mobil 1 and Amsoil on their racks. Near the HD/Buell bikes. | ||
| Ara |
Prof, it's typical. I've had several "company line" responses like that to other questions. They told me that our bikes just won't run right if you install an aftermarket fuel filter, and they told me that installing an oil cooler is a complete waste of money. (That was before Buell came out with the fan kit, of course.) Did you ask what a dual-purpose lubricant is??? (How about WD-40?) :-) | ||
| Bomber |
Oil Filter Alert the Bosch and Fram XG8A filters will not fit on your Buell if you're running a Spurgin oil cooler, al least not with the fittings exiting the thermostat in the suggested position (they foul the filter housing, preventing it from threading onto the mount . . . move the filter down about 1/8", relative to the mount). rotating the fittings 90 degrees will create the needed clearance, certainly, but I wasn't in the mood to remove and remount my cooler (not enough slack in the lines to rotate the fittings) . . . just a tip | ||
| Rick_A |
I started using HD motor oil and have been burning almost a quarter bottle every 500 miles. It doesn't seem right. It runs considerably hotter, too. Castrol semi synthetic is what I used to run, and I'd only have to add a negligible amount every 1000 miles or so. Anyone have a similar experience? I'm gonna run full synthetic when oil change time comes and see how it goes. |
