| Author | Message | ||
     Citified |
I went to my dealer today to complain about my bike. We hopped on HD-net to look up the remap and it said it will be available early fall. It is for the ignition timing and fuel. it is supposed to improve performance under 6k rpms, better throttle response, reduced heat and improved mileage. Not sure if Ill have the bike then, he is checking the trade in value this week and I am going to try to get a 105th anniversary road glide. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Hmmmm....nothing is ever said about the top end. I wonder if the low end gains come at the expense of top end of the power curve. | ||
| Madav8tr |
There has to be a trade-off somewhere. Just like installing different cams, power is easily moved but harder to make  | ||
| Buellsrule |
Hey Tim, let us know what they come back with for a trade in value. Thanks. | ||
| M1combat |
"There has to be a trade-off somewhere. Just like installing different cams, power is easily moved but harder to make" I don't think that modifying a fuel map is quite like changing cams... | ||
| Madav8tr |
No, it's not like changing cams at all but if you are going to richen the mixture enough to affect heat and improve mileage, some other part of the equation will suffer. | ||
| Jaimec |
It's adjusting it over a specific rpm. You're still thinking of carburetors where you change the jetting for a specific problem and it changes the fueling over ALL conditions. Computer controlled injection is far more dynamic and you can tweak mixtures based on rpm, load, air pressure, temperature, etc. In other words, you can fix what's broke, and leave what works alone. Ain't technology grand? | ||
| Xl1200r |
Jaimec - even a carb you makes changes for a certain RPM (well, ROM range) without affecting the whole thing - if you know what you're doing. I agree - they can make spark and fueling changes to improve the bottom end and still leave the top as is. It doesn't say anything about making any more power - just better drivability. | ||
| Mr_incognito |
Post up what hes gonna give you for trade in...im interested in a new CBR1000RR but I rarely have time to ride up and see what theyll give me. | ||
| Madav8tr |
"Ain't technology grand?" Technology is a wonderful thing and I have been riding and racing fuel injected sportbikes since 2000 when I got my 929 but there is ALWAYS a trade off when it comes to manipulating anything related to engine management. If they add fuel anywhere to help with the heat, I can't see how they are going to improve economy at the same time. IMO there will be a trade-off somewhere. | ||
| Edmbueller |
I would gladly give up fuel economy for better heat management. | ||
| Zac4mac |
Darcy - in a couple of months, all that heat will be our friend. Summer riding's a bit warm on the 11, the rest of the year it's just fine... Not so much "making power" as continuing to optimize the system. I don't think I'll jump on the remap right away. If initial reports are good, I'll do it... Z | ||
| Fresnobuell |
This may be a stupid, but my guess is that the low RPM fuel injection (and current problems for some) has much to blame on having to meet strict gov't guidelines--otherwise why wasn't the FI made proper from the get go? I just wonder if Buell (in order to get the appropriate sanctions) has to give a little up at the top to get a little at the bottom? That's sorta what I was getting at from my original post...I hope I am wrong and someone that knows the emissions hoops would be very beneficial to this thread! | ||
| Striperx3 |
Harlan: You are probably correct, some had to be given up "here" to make things better "there". Hopefully not too much was given up. Later | ||
| Badlionsfan |
If they were doing mechanical things to fix the low end, then I'd say yes, you're gonna lose at the top. However, this is basically an electrical issue (Fueling and possibly timing problem caused by ecm). The nice part is when you're programing a computer to spray x amount of fuel at 3500, and to electronically advance to retard timing, the settings at 9000 rpm shouldn't be effected. | ||
| Anonymous |
Unlike cam timing or exhaust resonance tuning, portions of the fuel injection map effect only very specific, defined rpm bands and load conditions. It is very possible to change low-speed, low-load running while not effecting peak performance whatsoever. Compared to mechanical changes, a free lunch is possible. | ||
| Badlionsfan |
My theory was backed up by an Anony! "Today, I feel like the luckiest man alive." This is my favorite thread of all time! | ||
| Anonymous |
In the old days of analog carbs and simple ignition timing, Mad8vatr's cooments would have been real close to right. But the effect of sophisticated spark mapping and proper combustion really can give you a free lunch; it's just that the lunch is coming from stopping wasting food! It is possible with the right combination to make more power, have less heat and use less fuel through this interaction, as you will soon see. | ||
| Badlionsfan |
As Willy Wonka said- "The suspense is killing me, I hope it lasts." | ||
| Fresnobuell |
It is possible with the right combination to make more power, have less heat and use less fuel through this interaction, as you will soon see. How can anyone argue with that? I sure hope it works out.... | ||
| Ccryder |
Hey Anony: I'll buy you that free lunch ;+}. What you said, I had heard rumors previously that it was possible to make more power, have less heat and, use less fuel. Different people had used Power Commanders and such to try and achieve some of these goals. Congrats to bringing this all together. I'm sure that to get to this point, many hours of dyno time were expended and then many hours of track time were used and then many hours of street time were used to prove what was proven previously. I don't have to deal with the government in my job (just UL) so I can just start to appreciate the work used to get to this point. Thank you and all of your Elves for working towards a resolution of these issues. Neil S. | ||
| Hayabusa |
I am calling BS on the heat issue! The fuel economy and stuttering issues will be corrected by adjusting the ECM. However, injecting more fuel into the cylinders will only cool the engine down so much and as an owner of other sportbikes 190-200 isn't that hot. I have seen Yamahas that run at 220 consistantly. The issue has to deal with the transfer of heat from the engine into the frame which in turn passes it onto the fuel. This is why the fuel boils and people get the bad odor. This is also why you can shut your bike off and come back 2 hours later and the frame is still scalding...the fuel (fluid) holds the heat much longer than the metal frame. This is also why at highway speeds you don't feel the heat (this wind is cooling the outside of the metal) but as soon as you slow down instant leg burn (the heat was always there, the fuel was just as warm on the highway as it was in traffic and it didn't get any cooler while you were speeding along; I am a little rusty on my physics but I believe that there are laws of fluid dynamics that prove this). As soon as the engine compartment and headers get hot they will transfer the heat into the frame which in turn heats the fuel...done deal. Unless this bike can run at 150 degrees constantly and the headers stay around 200 (which I have never seen on any bike) I can't see how this is possible. Buell must come out with some sort or barrier to keep the heat off the frame or get the fuel out of the frame. This is why people are getting blisters on the inside of their thighs. I ride with shorts on under my jeans to help minimize the damage. I beleive the original info on the map stated reduced heat...that is vague, doesn't say anything about cooling the frame off so that you can touch it. I also like that it is coming out this fall...when temps begin to fall across the country; how do we know that things will be better next summer when we mount up. I am just getting a little tired of all this..12K for a lot of headaches...the number of posts regarding people looking to get rid of their bikes on the rise...Buell had better get on it! Time to go singe some leg hair. Flame Away! | ||
| Elvis |
If the engine is working too hard because of inefficient combustion - resulting in lower mileage - wouldn't an improvement of that combustion process result not only in improved gas mileage, but also less heat? Not saying I know that's the answer to the question. Just asking. From a macroscopic, thermodynamic analysis, that would seem to be the case, but I don't know much about the specifics of the fuel injection. | ||
| Josh_ |
Wow, I'm having flashbacks to the Yamaha FJR1300 forums before the 2007 revamp.  Use TechSpec or decent gear. I ride around with dress pants on in stop-and-go 95+degree traffic in St Louis and don't get burned. 'Course with the TechSpec I don't touch the frame either. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
+1 on the Techspecs...they will protect your legs in the riding position, but there is a 3-4 inch gap at the rear, so your legs come into contact with the frame when stopped. I typically wear jeans when I ride and just a couple of occasions have I had to do the "two-step" from the heat (moving from one leg to the other at a stop.) And it gets plenty hot here in Central California...that being said, I try to keep my stop and go riding to a minimum. | ||
| Josh_ |
I was just talking to TechSpec about making the 1125R kits longer for just that reason. We'll see what happens. | ||
| Eagle1 |
Hayabusa, You can call BS all you want on the "adding more fuel" comment, but it's not in the addition of more fuel where they'll get cooler temps. It'll be from changing the spark curve. I posted in a thread a while back about the exact same topic, and it's true- the timing has A LOT to do with how hot an engine will run. I've tuned enough cars in my time to know this first-hand. | ||
| Socoken |
I would gladly pay thousands of dollars for a remap that stopped those ridiculously noisy fans from running after i shut my bike off. | ||
| Madav8tr |
Well, for once, I hope I am wrong. That said, the heat hasn't been an issue for me yet. I rode 143 miles today and didn't notice my legs touching the frame much less getting burned by it. Could have something to do with my height since I am only 5'10" but my legs touch the airbox cover more than the frame itself. The only heat I feel really is on my left leg as hot air escapes from that radiator shroud. Regardless, some folks are having an issue and I hope that the revised map will be a magic fix for those that are having problems. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Can you make a new map for my 1985 KLR-250? It's still overheating also  Dang watercooled bikes... |
