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     Dynarider |
Jim, so Buell markets this bike as a great backroad burner. How about those of us who dont live near the mountains or canyons of Cali or the Blue ridge parkway? How do advertise & sell a great handling bike for someone who lives in Kansas or Oklahoma or Florida, etc? Not everyone lives where the roads are real twisty. They are not gonna purchase it with the thought of trailering it to the good areas to ride for 1 week outta a year. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Jim_M |
I don't blame ya....I don't have seriously twisty roads near me either (northeastern connecticut), and where they do get twisty, I have to watch out for obstacles of the 4 legged variety. But then again, I don't have open 1/4 mile straights that I can open up a bike on for drag racing on either...well, legally. But I make do with what I got, and can dream of slaying dragons some other day. Besides, Buells have always been different, no reason why they should starting fitting in now, you know? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Steve_A |
""Jim, so Buell markets this bike as a great backroad burner. How about those of us who dont live near the mountains or canyons of Cali or the Blue ridge parkway? How do advertise & sell a great handling bike for someone who lives in Kansas or Oklahoma or Florida, etc? Not everyone lives where the roads are real twisty. They are not gonna purchase it with the thought of trailering it to the good areas to ride for 1 week outta a year." Having lived in the flatlands of southern Michigan, and having ridden for 20 miles to find 3 good corners in sequence, I can sympathize with you, Dyna. And if I wouldn't recommend a Firebolt to anyone with a checkerboard-square road grid surrounding them. That's why the Lightning is important, and why it and other derivatives are necessary to fill out the Buell line. XB-Rs are for riders in states with hills and mountains, and for Europe, and other machines will appeal more to people in places with less interesting roads. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Hootowl |
I take back what I said about it being a mistake marketing the VRod to the "younger performance oriented crowd". They could target four-year-olds and still sell every last one they build. It would be interesting to see the sales demographic. I'll bet the vast majority of buyers are over 40. What's the average age of a Buell rider? I'll bet it is over 30 at least. Not exactly the "young crowd". Look at the profiles on this board. Not too many young pups here. Why would a kid spend 18 grand for 105 HP when he can get 130 (or more) for under 10 and handle better to boot? It must be something other than HP drawing the Harley buyers, just like we are drawn to Buells. The squids ARE drawn to horsepower, and I don't see too many of them walking down the aisle with a VRod any time soon. The VRod is significant for Harley because it is the first bike they've made in a long time that isn't under powered from the factory. Lets face it, next to baseball, souping up Harleys is America's favorite past time. That will go a long way to change the general public's perception of HD as being a few decades behind the power curve. Not that they were, but that is the general perception, especially from non-Harley owners. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Chainsaw |
Davegess wrote
Hallelujah Brother! I rode a Sporty to Laughlin specifically to demo the VROD. Rode the Firebolt and VROD back-to-back. I dreamed about the Firebolt for weeks afterwords. My desire for the VROD ended after I rode it. I had no interest in the 'bolt till the demo. Needless to say, bought the Buell. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| José_Quiñones |
Steve, I don't see where there needs to be a correction, you can read what Alan wrote, he specifically mentioned that the unproduced prototype in 1989 was for the VR1000 race bike, you did not make that connection. The point is, that type frame around a 60 degree watercooled engine was already conceived, but never saw the light of day. Look, I said it before and I'll repeat it now, if Buell can build the bikes that they want and find enough people to buy them, then more power to them. I just don't think the sales volumes will justify HD's "investment" in the brand and keep the dealers happy. Josh, The sad part is that I have spent enough money keeping my S3T running in 3 years to have a SECOND SV in my garage! Major repair bills every 10,000 miles eliminate any amount of "warm fuzzies" I can feel for a motorcycle, no matter where it came from and the ideals behind it. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Fssnoc2501 |
Dynarider, Don't think that KANSAS is all flat with straight roads. I live in south eastern Kansas with some of the best twisties anywhere. Also not far from north western Arkansas which ain't too straight either. If it wasn't for the Blast sidecar effort at Bonneville, I would most likely be the PROUD owner of a XB, and having great fun on the backroads of Kansas | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Josh |
OK, sell it and move on. Just think of all the therapy you could have had with the money spent on repair bills  | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Xgecko |
Jim_M, I used to live in southern Rhode Island and there are plenty of twisty roads there you just can't run them at the speed of light...which is what makes real world bikes all the more fun over Race Rep bikes. BTW I heard from a guy on another BBS that there are black bear in your neighborhood....now that is a change from when I lived there. I like the XBR and I did finally get a chance to ride one but I just can't see buying one it doesn't hit my soul...one after one look at the XBS...well lets just say it grabbed my soul...I'm still a long way from buying one though. Funny my Blast is morphing into a little brother of the XBS though | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Blake |
JQ, We may have to coat the top surface of your soap box with contact cement. You've spent over $5K on repairs??!! Really? You're not going to list tires, oil, filters, race parts, and stuff like that are you? Cecil used to do that.  Jim, You're in CT and complaining of no good twisties??!!! I've gotta ride 200+ miles to get into some prime riding territory. The journey is half the fun. Gives you a contrasting reference for when you finally get to the curvy stuff. You've got great roads all around, I mean c'mon, NH and NY are full of prime riding. Repeat after me, "400 miles is a piece of cake."  Dyna, "Every single dealer I have been in lately, & I hit a lot of em has a bolt on the floor & nobody is checking em out." So there we have it folks. THE definitive expert commentary on the state of XB9R sales in America.  What, a dealership is supposed to sell out of XB9R's within 5 months of their release to be considered successful? Or when you visit, throngs of drooling customers should be fawning over any XB9R displayed on the floor. What good is a showroom if you don't have anything to show?! JQ, "I just don't think the sales volumes will justify HD's "investment" in the brand and keep the dealers happy." I'll ask again, cause you haven't answered me yet. (Seems a trend on this board lately, people ignoring my questions. I guess I'm easy to ignore (Court, no comments please).) My question was... "What sustainable annual rate of growth would you, as president of BMC, expect to set as an ambitious goal? What, 1000% in one year; or maybe 80% over four years? Or maybe 25% for ten years?
You enjoy pondering and proffering your opinions wrt the strategy of BMC, but I'm not sure you really understand what you are suggesting when it comes to the growth and success of BMC. It is very common for us engineers to focus too narrowly on a subject, missing the big picture while solving the specific problem. We want to see Buell successful. However, maybe we should consider that Buell is actually doing quite well; I can't imagine that it's HD investors are anything but thrilled with BMC's recent progress. Sustained steady growth is the name of the game. In two years, you may understand even better the long range planning and strategy that HD/BMC are employing. I definitely like the three year warranty idea. heck, even two years would be a real shock to the competition; three would be mind blowing. It would go a LONG way towards overcoming the perceptions of poor reliability/quality. Do any of Buell's competition offer extended warranties like Buell currently offers as an added cost option? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Elvis |
My God! I just found out that a Cadillac CTS will out accelerate a Mazda Miata. If you have any stock in Mazda, please consider selling it. I can't see how they can hope to sell any of those things if someone can buy a CTS and out accelerate it. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Raymaines |
In the Oct. 2002 issue of Motorcyclist magazine there is an interview with Mark Blackwell, the General Manager of Victory Motorcycles. His answer to the last question in the interview (page 70) is interesting and pertains to our discussion: What is the key to Victory’s future success? “What’s critical is that we keep focusing on the customer,… What are they really saying? What do they really want? “…But what we are going to do is build a nice motorcycle company that provides a nice return for our stockholders and makes our dealers happy. If we can listen to the voice of the customer, and provide a good, quality alternative for the people who want to buy an American bike, I think we’re going to do just fine. And, fortunately, the bike business is big enough and the margins are strong enough, that we can give our shareholders a nice return, help our dealers make a buck, and reinvest that in taking care of the customer.” | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Jim_M |
Xgecko, yeah, we've had bear reports for the past couple of years, they found tracks outside an elementary school in Coventry...hate to run into one of those... Blake, you got me, NH, VT, NY, and western CT all have great twisties...getting away from the kids is kinda hard though, but I try ;^D The roads around me do offer twisties, but they are populated (ie businesses, houses, schools) so I can't get too loose in them. At least, not like I see out in CA. My mission this week end will be to find a few good roads, just for you Blake ;^D Back to the topic (before I get put into the hall of shame), the XBS looks like it is my type of bike...I'm starting to talk the wife into getting an XBS, but since the passenger accomodations are minimal (!) we should get a Blast! as well...and then we can keep the Bandit for two up riding...I don't think she's bought into it yet though. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Rick_A |
If it's true love, money is no object and minor nuances can be forgiven. If it's not meant to be, take your losses, GET RID OF IT and quit yer bitchin' | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Kcfirebolt |
I can empathize with the "derth of corners" syndrome. I moved to KAnsas City from Asheville, NC. Talk about a landscape change. That said, I bought my Bolt in May, and with some work, I have found lots of great curvey roads within a 100 mile radius of KC in both Missouri and Kansas. Thay haven't always been easy to find, but the exploration has been half the fun. Still, I can't wait until I get the Bolt back on my home turf. If anyone wants to know some great roads southwest of Asheville, let me know. I can put you onto some ringers. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Dynarider |
Damn Blake, you sure you arent Eriks secret love child? Sure got mighty defensive. As far as a dealer selling out their allotment of Bolts in 5 months. Hell yes!!! Why not? Harley did it with the Rod. Also a lot of dealers only received 1 or 2 bolts. Why would they still have them sitting on the floor? Yes I know some dealers sold out instantly & have had to go & get bikes from other dealers. Maybe they have 1 hell of a salesman or other fantastic incentives. The Lightning is the bike they should have produced first IMHO. It seems to be generating a lot more positive buzz among the press as well as the consumer. How many times have you heard or read just in the last few weeks "I dont like the Firebolt, but that new Lightning is looking good to me"? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Anonymous |
>>>As far as a dealer selling out their allotment of Bolts in 5 months. Hell yes!!! Why not? Harley did it with the Rod. Also a lot of dealers only received 1 or 2 bolts. Why would they still have them sitting on the floor? Yes I know some dealers sold out instantly & have had to go & get bikes from other dealers. Maybe they have 1 hell of a salesman or other fantastic incentives.<<< There seem to be two classes of Buell dealers: those that can sell sportbikes, and those that can't. I have seen a number of posts on this board from people who went to look at a Buell, and the salesman attempted to steer them to a Sportster. Sales seem to be following the classic 80/20 rule: 20 percent of the dealers are selling 80 percent of the bikes. Recent changes in allocation policy will ensure that only those dealers actually selling Buells will get more. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Jmartz |
Jose: You could get up to speed on the mechanics and do your own maintenence and repairs. Taking a cycle to the shop is an expensive proposition for any brand, especially one that needs frequent visits for ane reason or another. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Spike |
"As far as a dealer selling out their allotment of Bolts in 5 months. Hell yes!!! Why not? Harley did it with the Rod. Also a lot of dealers only received 1 or 2 bolts. Why would they still have them sitting on the floor?" You should come visit Ray Price H-D in Raleigh, NC. We currently have four '03 V-rods on the floor priced at $1k over MSRP, not including our demo V-rod. $1k over MSRP may sound like a lot but keep in mind that every other Harley on the floor is priced at $3k over MSRP, so the V-rods are "bargain" compared to the rest of our inventory. We were in a similar scenario with our '02 V-rods. We've been pricing XB9Rs at $10,795 and selling every single one. We even sold our demo XB, I think it went for over $11k. I can't speak for worldwide XB sales, but around here they're moving faster than any other Buell. Mike L. '99 Cylone | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Dynarider |
"I can't speak for worldwide XB sales, but around here they're moving faster than any other Buell." Any other Buell??? The only other one being sold is the Blast. Any tube frames still hanging around are last years models. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Rick_A |
It's funny how styling and ergonomic changes can make such a difference to people between the S and R models. I don't see them as very different at all. I went from Western NY to S.E. Florida. That's a difference...I used to have nice rollercoaster roads right near my house. I've hardly been riding here 'cause it's just not very fun. I must find twisties... | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Rd350 |
Blake, I also think that Buell should step up and offer a 2 or 3 year warranty. That would fix the problems from the past. BMW, Ducati, Triumph all offer a great warranty program. And if Buell feels that they fixed all the problems with the new bikes it wouldn't matter if they gave us a few extra years. It would cost the company almost 0 dollars for it. As for the dealers the Reps for Buell should know their market better than anyone. They should be able to tell the company which dealers are good and which ones are not. From that info they should drop dealers and put new ones in different shops like Ducati, Triumph. This would help Buell big time. But what do I know. I am just a sales rep !! | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Java |
Elvis; Amen. Everyone lusting after a V-Rod engined Firebolt; Please help me with this, as I can't figure it out. From what I understand, we just need to make the 'bolts frame a little longer, and maybe a little wider. The V-Rod engine is evidently only about 30 lbs heavier. Add the weight of the radiator, plumbing, and about 10 lbs of coolant. Pardon my abysmal ignorance, but don't we now have a bike about the size of, say, an S1, that weighs about the same as an S1, and turns a 1/4 mile almost as fast as an S1? And would cost how much? Jose; Did you get an SV or an SVs? Those are a great bike. I almost bought an SVs, then I rode a Firebolt. There is no way I can rationally explain why I want to spend almost $4000 more to get the Firebolt. Picking a bike is not a rational thing. Sometimes it's just plain lust. Otherwise, there would be no British, German, or American bikes. CERTAINLY no Italian bikes. Based on value alone, the SV may be the best bike on the planet. Period. But, it doesn't get me excited like the Buell. The 'bolt is sitting on the showroom floor right now, 15 miles away, I can hear it whispering to me. That's why I'm here typing instead of sleeping at 1:20 AM. I can't get it out of my head. If your SV does that to you, great! It would save me a bundle if it did for me. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| José_Quiñones |
Java, It would probably be faster and more expensive than an S1 ($15k at least). I got a 2000 SV. I spent the money I got for selling my Sportster with 38k miles on the SV with 2.6k miles and still had money left over. This time I went with reason over emotion. Had emotion ruled, I would have an Aprilia Futura even though they it was too tall for me, I would have had to finance it, there is only ONE dealer around here that supports them, and the aftermarket for this bike is limited. Interestingly, back in 99, my F.I. S3T Buell met these same conditions. I got the SV purely for peace of mind (reliability, smoothness, nearby dealers, aftermarket support, price, reliability) to compliment my S3T, which provides plenty of excitement (ie, will something happen to the bike today?). The SV and the S3T are both exciting enough for me riding at "the pace" on the street. José I try to do as much work on my bikes as I can, this time I gave up after trying to fix it myself and I was 250 miles away from home at the time. So I took it to the dealer. Yes, it hurt my wallet big time, but hopefully I can ride it to Deals Gap and back next weekend and not have to worry about it. That is if I take it and not the SV. Blake,
My observations are based on listening to people's reactions and comments about the Firebolt and Buells in general over the past year at the International Motorcycle Show in Philadelphia, the demo rides at Myrtle Beach bike week, the demo rides at our dealer during the "Slay the Dragon" event, the demo ride event here in the DC area in June, the FUSA races at Summit Point and Pocono, and the AMA Superbike races at VIR. If Buell can match the average growth of the Motorcycle industry, I'd be thrilled. Heck if they can meet HD's production target for them for 2002, 11,500 units, I'll congratulate them here.    But 2002 is not the year to compare, like you said, we willl have to wait for 2003 and 2004 to see the trend. 2002, with the plant shutting down the tube frames and starting the x-frames, will probably be flat compared to 2001. BTW, I finally got my S3 back yesterday and I noticed that my local Dealer, HD/B of Ft. Washington, MD (1-888-HDF-EVER), has TWO brand New Firebolts, one blue one white, on sales floor for $8,995! They also still have two X1's, an M2 and a gaggle of Blasts waiting for a home. They also have one 2002 VROD at MSRP still available. While everyone else has "End of Year Sales", it seems this particular Buell dealer is having a "Beginning of the Year that his not even here Sale!" I hope it works. Maybe some NC Buellers might want to take that trip up I-95. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Rick_A |
José...the numbers don't mean shit to me. I love the bikes, and that's all that matters. Analyze that trash all you want. It's irrelevant to me, and it's not mine or yours to worry about. Back to the 9S, please! | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Kevyn |
I find it very interesting, this discussion of what Buell should or should not be doing and whether they should have produced the XB9 Lightning first instead of the R model...for my particular tastes, they should have produced the full fairing version first--I won't buy the an XB, just doesn't fit ergonomically. But, I'm excited about the engine. Can hardly wait to see the 'big bore kit', the FI performance chip or ECM and the aftermarket performance stuff...when Erik finally punches the engine out to 1000cc and beyond, puts another cog in the box, watch out my friends, the machine will be a scorcher! I'm certain that Erik is an American design genius and Team Buell is a skunk works/black ops resource funded by HD only constrained by marketing and the bean counters. They are out to capture our imaginations, more than the American market share and ready to go head to head with the best the world has to offer. Keep in mind, a company barely a decade old has produced a machine bristling with technology, innovations and design that have it compared already to the best the world has to offer and at bargain prices!! Now if they could just get that dealer stuff straightened out... | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Ar15ls1 |
Very well said Kevyn!! Could not have said it better myself!! Best of all its an American company!!! | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Raymaines |
Prozac, Kevyn. Prozac. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Blake |
MO scores the first test ride report of the XB9S. Most interesting statement... It is worth the $12/year for an MO subscription. Sign up and read the entire article at http://www.motorcycle.com/mo/mcbuell/02xb9s_intro.motml | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Harleybritt |
i sat on the xb9s today a black one,it,s pretty cool looking bike and feels great.but i do prefere my firebolt,mainly cause i plan on getting a big dog chopper next year and will use that for bar hopping and long road trips,and use the bolt for trips to the mountains,no point in having 2 cruisers.not that i dont ride the bolt far im of to key west this week,but prefere abig cruiser.anyhow i think the lightning is cool good luck to all who buy it.not sure it will handle as well as the bolt due to the seat position,but a good all round street bike. |
