| Author | Message | ||
     Mbsween |
Anyone read this yet? They compare an 1125R to a 1098S and a benelli tornado 1130. They had one of the Buells with injection issues. MO test They're generally very Buell friendly.I've only ridden the 1125R on the track (Pocono), so I've never seen any of the issue that seem to plague some of these bikes. Be interesting to see what owners think Site appears to be down now. | ||
| Brad1445 |
That green is awesome.  | ||
| Bigeasy |
Yea I read it. Nice write up, they liked the buell the best also. I dont have any exp with benneli but I do with ducati and I thought it was spot on. Your right the green does look nice. Dyno figures seem to be low for what I have seen on the 1125. The 1098s dynos I've seen match up to ones in the articule though. | ||
| Jaimec |
I've always LOVED the looks of the Tornado Tre so I have to admit, I'm a little disappointed it did so poorly. I'd love to get my hands on a Benelli TnT too... | ||
| Mustangturbo |
The article was good.. I would like to have seen some track numbers.. I am sure that their dyno numbers were a little low. Unless maybe this bike amongst other things was plagued by power loss. Overall it was good to hear that they had the most fun on the 1125R. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Unless maybe this bike amongst other things was plagued by power loss. It certainly had the fueling issues and possibly top end loss...when is Buell going to send a decent test mule? C'mon Buell you are definitely smarter than than... | ||
| Blake |
That 1125R dyno result is way low, the lowest I've heard of by far for any Buell 1125R. Somthing is amiss with that. One of the test riders set his fastest lap on the Buell; he credited the beefy powerband and excellent drive off the corners. | ||
| Rsh |
Nice spin Blake. What was said is 'Kevin admitted he had his best session of the day on the 1125R thanks, in part, to the Buell’s “softish motor that allowed full-throttle corner exits.” He added that the 1125R would make a fine endurance-class racer. | ||
| Brad1445 |
The engine in the 1125 is bad ass. I think some may be judging by the" books cover" and effect their judgment of other things. Buell Handing is Incredible Belt drive Rocks Rotax rules. | ||
| Mustangturbo |
I really just think that there may have been a problem or two with the fuel/air delivery. But it was at willow springs, I lived out there once upon a time and the Mojave Desert gets over 120 sometimes. I know that these bikes don't much like the hot weather, if they tested it when it was hot out and the bike was warm, there is a chance that it effected the power, plus you can't add the ram air effect on the Dyno. Overall I think that it was good press for the 1125R. The other two bikes cost much more than the 1125R and weren't able to blow it away. | ||
| Blake |
I read "softish motor that allowed full-throttle corner exits" to mean exactly what I stated, meaning that the engine is not peaky or prone to abrupt changes in power delivery. This, as anyone who's roadraced a motorcycle would know, yields a gentle, easy to control (soft) transition from full lean at the apex to full throttle at corner exit. What is your interpretation Rsh? | ||
| Rsh |
My interpretation: The powerband is very linear. The three 1125R's that I have ridden, two during track days and one on a street demo ride. On the track when you are rolling on the throttle coming out of a turn and glancing at the tach you are waiting for the power to really come on as you straighten the bike up, it never does, it just pulls and makes it seem like you are not going as fast as you are. On the street during a spirited canyon ride you get the same feeling waiting for some kind of explosive rush that never happens even though the scenery turns into a blur as you are hustling to the next corner. It's partly a matter of perception, bikes that have violent,abrupt or explosive power bands may feel faster to the average Joe but can only really be utilized by someone with exceptional abilities. The 1125R is what the XB should have been from the start. I have had a deposit down since the bike was first announced, and my dealer calls me every so often to see when I will pick one up, hopefully it will be soon. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Right on Rsh, the bike doesn't FEEL like its going that fast due to lack of the power "hit"...but then you look at the speedo and your in triple digits... | ||
| M1combat |
Ummm.... So you both have the same interpretation then? | ||
| Rsh |
Interpreting what MO thought: I think they felt the 1125 was weak in the power department even though they had fun with it. Comments like "If the Buell’s power deficit wasn’t obvious on paper, hammering the bike around the Big Track made it quite clear. Numerous times I had the throttle pinned exiting Turn 9 and just couldn’t help but note the Buell’s unwillingness to rev quickly. “Lethargic acceleration down the front straight ” was how Captain Kevin described the Buell’s power when struggling against the infamous desert winds that often plague Willow." Nevertheless, Kevin admitted he had his best session of the day on the 1125R thanks, in part, to the Buell’s “softish motor that allowed full-throttle corner exits.” He added that the 1125R would make a fine endurance-class racer. | ||
| Smoke |
need to disconnect that solenoid to make better corner exits. i'd bet they were in 3rd a lot of the time exiting corners at WOT. tim | ||
| Anonymous |
Amazing how Higbee, riding a stock-engined 1125R on the Willow Springs big track races that actually pay money, finishes in front of built 1098s. The soft horsepower doesn't seem to bother him much, or offer much help to the Ducati riders behind him . . . | ||
| Thunderbox |
What the article failed to mention or emphasize was the cost of the Buell versus the other 2. Take a look at what the buck gets you and the Buell comes away a clear winner IMHO. Imagine the farkles you could get for the 1125R for half the difference between the other 2 machines. Riding gear, insurance whatever. | ||
| Ccryder |
Dave: You have hit the nail on the head  ! For part of the $ difference you could upgrade the front and rear suspensions and still have plenty leftover. It still confuses me why we can't ever see a comparo with the 1098, not S, not R but, just a plane Jane 1098. Guess the press pool doesn't have any  (how do you spell stacking the deck?) | ||
| Doerman |
As anony is eluding to, it is possible watch in person the on-track/in-race comparison between the pert' near stock 1125R and the 1098R at Willow on the 3rd Sunday of every month. The 1125R is amazing against the top of the top Ducati (R-model). Highbee wasn't there this Sunday (he was busy at Barber). But Dixon and the Glendale XBRR did a valiant attempt at defending the honor of Buell. He diced with the 1098R and swapped lead. He was ahead at the point when the shiftlever broke. The point is this. Professional wine tasters assume that the best wines come from well known wineries with a hefty pricetag. So it is with professional motorcycle testers. The preconceived notion is that the Ducati is perfect with its reputation earned over the decades. When the 1125R does well (fueling issue notwithstanding) it upsets their thinking and leads to comments like "softish engine". Give them time.. they'll understand as the 1125R wins pile up across the different tracks in the world. | ||
| M1combat |
I've stopped trying to explain it to people... I just say "Keep watching" now. | ||
| Dentguy |
Amazing how Higbee, riding a stock-engined 1125R on the Willow Springs big track races that actually pay money, finishes in front of built 1098s. The soft horsepower doesn't seem to bother him much, or offer much help to the Ducati riders behind him . . . I would say the talent of Higbee has way more to do with where he finishes than the bike. As for the "stock engined 1125R", Why aren't all the magazine testers getting this engine? I am not trying to rag on the bike or put it down so I hope it isn't taken that way. | ||
| Brad1445 |
As for the "stock engined 1125R", Why aren't all the magazine testers getting this engine? ____________________________________________ Thats a great question! Apparently a few here must also have received raced prepped versions. } | ||
| Doerman |
So a talent like Dixon on an XBRR has more to do with it than the competency of a Buell racebike. It is amazing how ingrained it is that Ducati by default is #1. Even seeing isn't believing any more. Not to take anything away from Dixon or Higbee! (Message edited by doerman on July 21, 2008) | ||
| Kttemplar |
I just have a few thoughts concerning dynos and HP figures. The first thought I have, concerns the ram air on the 1125R. Not much has been mentioned concerning this other than a sentence in some of the design specs. The other thought is fluid dynamics used to design the 1125R and ram air. From what I understand it is not uncommon for some bikes with ram air to experience 8-12 hp gains. The following statement is from an experiment done on a Ninja a while ago, but it serves as food for thought on the real value of ram air. http://www.sportrider.com/tech/146_9508_ram/index. html "Flat out, however, the Ninja indicates another 30 mph on the speedo. If boost at this speed was, as seems likely, 40mb, then the gain over atmospheric pressure would be approximately 11.5 bhp, giving a peak figure of 134.5 bhp. If inlet pressure reached 45mb, which it might well do, then the increase would be as much as 12 bhp, or a peak of 135 bhp. In other words, 123 bhp measured normally on a static Dynojet rolling road dynamometer could translate to as much as 135 bhp or more on the street. Ram air works." These bikes do not have a 12liter air box directly behind the forks or a scary huge ram air port like the 1125R does. I do not think it unlikely to expect a 10hp increase @150mph. Factor in the lower drag due to the aerodynamic nature of the bike and 120hp on a dyno becomes much more in the real world. Just some of my thoughts. Mike | ||
| Paint_shaker |
Erik has said in the past he wanted to create a bike without the violent/ instant-on power band. From what the magazine testers are saying, the Buell power delivery is exactly the way it should be. IMO, the real question is can the people who are used to the kawihondasukis all the time be trully subjective when testing Buells? | ||
| Brad1445 |
Paint_shaker Posted on Tuesday, July 22, 2008 - 09:11 am: Erik has said in the past he wanted to create a bike without the violent/ instant-on power band. ______________________________________________  "I Meant to do that" The Blast already had that feature. Most sport bike riders I know kind of like the feeling of power. | ||
| Ccryder |
It was interesting to hear Erik comment about the RW750 and it's power curve (or lack of it) and the way in 500rpm it would gain 30 or 40hp. We have all seen the dyno charts of the 1098 and the 1125r. The dip that the 1098 has up to 6k rpm probably makes the test riders feel that they are getting a "real hit" when it finally climbs out of the dip. Some other tester alluded to this "perception" of power coming on. Heck you give someone a linear hp curve and a flat (almost) torque curve and they STILL complain, until they look at their lap times. Reality versus perception. Day-to-day real world riding, this engine ROCKS! I passed 3 slow-movers movers this AM and from 45-XXX it was AWESOME, then reality struck and my Passport went off and I had to slow down. For that 3-7 seconds it took to pass 150' of vehicles it gets my heart pumping!!! (BTW, I was back to 55 well b4 the LEO arrived just by closing the throttle, grinning from ear-to-ear, as he crested the hill!) Time2Work Neil S. | ||
| Dentguy |
So a talent like Dixon on an XBRR has more to do with it than the competency of a Buell racebike. Yes. Buell racebike or any racebike. I'll say Ducati also, if it makes you feel better. The bike has to be competitive and finish. Many can buy or build a racebike that can do that, but very few can put it up front. AMA Superbike is a great example. There are many GSXR's in the field, but we usually see the same two guys up front. Somehow I don't think it is the bike. | ||
| Madav8tr |
To a certain extent it "is" the bike. Look at Aaron Yates and where he typically finished on the Yoshi team and where he is finishing on the Jordan squad. The Yoshi Suzuki is head and shoulders above the rest of the field. Rider talent is obviously important but without the best machinery, that talent is going to be wasted. Why else would a "factory" ride be so important and why do satellite teams rarely win MotoGP? The machine is a HUGE part of the equation. The Buell being competitive this early in it's development is a very good sign IMO. Give the bike some time and some actual race parts and track data and the result will improve further. | ||
| Doerman |
The GSXRs fielded by Suzuki Rockstar Makita team is not the same GSXR other teams use. The factory team gets exclusive parts not shared with other Suzuki team. When Jordan asked to buy a factory prepped GSXR the answer was "You can't afford it". (Meaning: we won't sell it to you) This is not to take anything away from Mladin/Spiess. They are excellent riders. I am just pointing out that all GSXRs fielded in Superbike are not created equal. | ||
| Dentguy |
Madav8r, I agree with you to a certain extent it is the bike. As for Aaron Yates, he just finished 3rd behind Mladin and Spies who no offense to Yates are just faster right now. A factory ride is important because they have the big bucks and will pay the big bucks for the best riders who usually win because they are better. Do they have better bikes? Probably so. Doerman, I agree with you. They are not the same bike. But I think if Mladin or Spies switched bikes with the Jordan team they would still be up front. My comments were not said to take anything away from the 1125R. It is obviously doing well. I just think the bikes in the classes these days (satellite team or factory) are competitive enough that the rider makes a bigger difference. Most teams wouldn't race a bike that isn't competitive. I still don't understand why a "stock engined 1125R", as Anonymous said Higbee has, can't get in the hands of most magazines. |
