| Author | Message | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
     Spiderman |
NOOOOOOOOO Dyna said the H word. LOL It is what the big H has been marketing but I figure it to be like this. 1% of Harley owners are the true Bikers the guys who wave at every one, live the life style where as 99% of Buell owners are like that. I know i have met a few Buell owners and, i mean few, who are very squidlike in nature. You can always tell a real Harley biker, cause you can sit down at the bar with him, drink your ass silly and talk about your bikes. (never mix beer an bikes) But every once in a while you get the H-D yuppie who says to you, "why are you riding that Jap S%#@ ?" You just nod your head and walk away cause the site of that yuppie in shorts, sandles, a tank top and a full face helmet on a Ultra is just too much. OK enough of my rant. Court is right it is the friendship,and the style and the ever populare slogan being "Different in Every Sense." | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Court |
Dyna: I suppose it is. I purchased 9 Harley-Davidsons between 1987 and 1990. The experience was wonderful. I wandered upon Buell about 1987 and have never purchased a Harely-Davdison since. I suppose the difference could is analogous to looking at dirty pictures and engaging in sex. Court | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Jmartz |
Court: Your decription of Buell and opninions on their philosphy are very accurate. There is, however, some of us who wished the bike performed a little better in acceleration. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Smitty |
How much is enough.Remember the grass is always greener on the other side. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Davegess |
I just got my cycle world and Steves piece is great, The usual top notch Anderson work. To reinforce what he says about quality the rumblings I hear in the industry are that the XB''s are poised to set new industry wide standards for quality. Early indications are that they could have quality scores almost 3 time better than Harley and even more impressive 50% better than HONDA. For the record, know what I know I did NOT purchase an extended warrenty on my 'bolt. I had one on my M2. The S is gonna be one cool bike. When folks lop of the plate and light holder that thing is gonna look very, very cool. Dave | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| José_Quiñones |
Well that's all relative, I guess. IF HD/Buell are happy selling 5-6000 Buells a year, if they can sell that many to the people that like what Buell is making right now and keep the dealers happy, the customers after the sale, and the bottom line in good shape, then more power to them! However, I don't think HD, which sells what, 50,000 Sportsters and now 10,000 VRods in a year, sees their investment in a whole new brand paying off when it takes valuable dealer showroom space from your cash cows which are constantly moving out of the showroom while the Buells SIT, it spends money on marketing and promotions and creating clothing, parts and accessories for the new brand that sit on the dealer's floor until they are discounted, when it spends money on RECALLS and SERVICE BULLETINS for a new brand, which give it a reputation which will take a LONG time to shake. I don't see 5-6000 bikes a year as being enough to justify the expense. If they want to sell more bikes than that, they have to give the customer the level of refinement that the rest of the sport bike industry currently offers. That's all I'm saying. They are there with the Chassis (except they still forget little things that people notice like the helmet locks, frame slider and rear stand spool mounts, ect.), they have a ways to go with the engine. Hope I'm wrong! | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Court |
>>>>>If they want to sell more bikes than that, they have to give the customer the level of refinement that the rest of the sport bike industry currently offers. That's ONE way to skin a cat. . . I'd submit there may be others. >>>>>Early indications are that they could have quality scores almost 3 time better than Harley and even more impressive 50% better than HONDA. This happens, and I'm confident that the makin's are in place for it to, it's gonna be a whole new world order. Imagine . . . Honda striving to acheive "Buell level build quality". I have no statistical data, but the owners cruising about on these new Buells are as complimentary about OWNING the motorcycle as the press is about how it handles. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Aaron |
"If they want to sell more bikes than that, they have to give the customer the level of refinement that the rest of the sport bike industry currently offers. That's all I'm saying. " I can imagine folks saying the same thing about HD in 1983. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Darthane |
__________________________________________________ Quote: For the record, know what I know I did NOT purchase an extended warrenty on my 'bolt. I had one on my M2. __________________________________________________ I'm beginning to wish I hadn't. Anyone know if it's possible to cancel an extended warranty? Bryan | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Xgecko |
I'll tell you in a week I'm moving to Japan and it isn't useable there so they had better be giving me back my money | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Rick_A |
Spiderman...they go for about $20-$25...can't remember exactly. I did get them from ASB...but beware...all light filaments and brackets on the tail end of the bike will be subject to breaking at anytime. I'm still trying to figure out how to keep things together back there. I read Steve A's write up of the 9S. A lot of facts and very little in the way of copious and ill conceived opinions. Just how it should be  | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Spiderman |
Cool thanks Rick. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| José_Quiñones |
\quoteI can imagine folks saying the same thing about HD in 1983.} Yes, the bikes were crap, and folks STILL bought the bikes, because they were the last American company left! That and a timely assist from the Reagan Administration got them thru the storm to where the product improved, and the rest is history. But HD's sucess has less to do with the bikes styling or the "lifestyle" or even the marketing. In my opinion it has more to do with the fact that they were an AMERICAN motorcycle company. That was good enough for most folks, never mind that the bikes sucked in many ways. Nationalism, pure and simple. Buell does not have this luxury, it is not the last American motorcycle company, they are, however, the only American SPORT BIKE company at the moment. In my opinion this has been part of their success, they are the only game in town if you want a American made "sport bike". The problem is that this segment of the Motorcycling Consumer places performance/refinement ahead of simply where the bike is made. If Buell was an Italian or Japanese company they would be out of business in the US by now. Think Bimota. Like I said before, Chassis-wise they are right there with the best of them. It's the noisy/vibrating engine that turns these potential customers off. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Imonabuss |
BS that Buell "would be out of business by now" without the buy US syndrome. Buell's export sales damn near match their domestic sales, and there certainly isn't any pro-US attitude there. In fact there are significant pro-Buell clubs overseas, that aren't factory sponsored like BRAG. Why? Because the bikes are really great rides on the fun roads that real riders like...and a Whyabusa is not. Think Bimota? I think not. If Bimota had ever made bikes with the performance for price that Buell did, they wouldn't have gone bankrupt three times. There were a lot more Buells sold in Italy than Bimotas...and yes there is an intense Buell club in Italy (see bcube.org). | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Court |
If the nationalism thing is valid, what I am to do with this stable of German and Japanese bikes in the basement? Do I have to forego the KTM v-twin? Does Henrik have to sell his SV? I think the "American" angle is neat, but it's not WHY I buy a Buell. Court | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| José_Quiñones |
I figured that would get some responses! If Buell was so confident in their bikes, why not get rid of "American Motorcycles" in the logo? Let the bikes stand on their own! It's there for a reason. Court, you make my point, like I said before, "sport bike" buyers place different things ABOVE the bike's country of origin. Cruiser riders in the U.S. want to buy U.S. made cruisers above all else, the styling, the "lifestyle" the vast dealer network make the choice that much easier. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Jmartz |
Time will tell how the public receives this modestly powered model with innovative chassis design. My guess is that it is aimed at newer riders. With HD's average owner age in the Buick/Oldsmobile range and rising, the company needs new blood. The gas-in-the-frame bikes is their lure. I hope they are sucessful for many reasons, but selfishly thinking, I am still holding hope for a "Wilson Special" power level model. Till then I will be on the sidelines... | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Blastin |
Have faith. I beleive that there are some "wicked-cool" projects in the works. Something that will make us say, "And we thought the XB was breaking new ground!" | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| José_Quiñones |
Sure, Buell is working on new stuff. So is KTM, Ducati, Yamaha, Suzuki, Honda, Triumph, Kawasaki, Aprilia, Harley Davidson, Moto Guzzi, hopefully Victory, and maybe Dan Gurney will get some financial backing to mass produce the Alligator (talk about breaking new ground!) Like the other José said, time will tell how the current lineup does. I hope it does well. I like the new Lightning much better than the Firebolt, but still not enough to trigger my "reach for my wallet" trigger. Air cooled bikes should always be part of the lineup as long as they can sell them, but Buell needs another engine to start another "branch" of the family tree, like HD did. It's the only way to expand their potential market, IN MY OPINION. _______________________________________________________________________ Imonabuss, I'm curious, I couldn't find this information, maybe your "contacts" can get you this information: Compared to Triumph, how many HD/Buells are sold in England? Compared to BMW, how many HD/Buells are sold in Germany? Compared to Honda, how many HD/Buells are sold in Japan? Compared to Ducati or Aprilia, how many HD/Buells are sold in Italy? Sure, Buell exports a lot of its production, but compared to the domestic companies in each country, their market share is very small. Buell should be doing better in their home market, certainly not HD type numbers yet, but at least getting closer to 15,000 bikes a year, especially considering the size of the dealer network.   HD's shipment numbers will increase. Will Buell's 2002 numbers stay flat, increase or decrease? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| S320002 |
I've been on the road and off line for awhile but I check here when I can. Noticed some interesting comments in the motomags about the FireBolt. Many of them make fun of the "low tech" engine but when it runs neck and neck with the "high tech" 600s, even though it has a distinct horsepower disadvantage, they decide it should be compared to "high tech" liter bikes. Maybe it is time to forget about displacement and start comparing fuel (and technology) efficiency. Just a thought. Greg | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Blake |
JQ, I think it's nonsense. This argument is a rehash of the same ones that can be found in countless BBS archives. Look at the overall trend in Buell sales. It is a model of continuous, planned, sustainable growth. We all understand why 2001 was a flat year don't we? Remember the focus on the recall efforts?
Is it really reasonable for us to stand around and 2nd guess one of THE MOST SUCCESSFUL companies in America today? Is an average of 30% growth in shipments over the last five years not aggressive enough for you? What would you as BMC president want? 1000% increase in shipments in one year, 100% for four years? What do you think is reasonable? How about this... 1. Get quality and reliability under control and up to industry leading levels. 2. Design/release a cutting edge Sport Bike that sets the industry on its ear and marks Buell as THE innovator to whome all other brands are scurrying to catch. 3. Continue with further innovative sport bike designs while maintaining quality and growing manufacturing capacity at a steady sustainable rate. Buell may someday unleash a repliracer, who knows? If that's what you want, there are hordes from which to choose. When/if Buell decides to build one, you will buy it. 4. Price the motorcycles accordingly. Not in line with UJM supersports, but in line with comparable machines, such as the BMW R1100S, the Duc 900S & M900, the Guzzi V11 Sport, etc... 5. There is NOTHING wrong with playing the "Designed and Built in America" theme. It means a LOT to a lot of people. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Buellbob |
I think the XB9S is a good looking bike. If I was in the Market for a second bike I'd buy one. The issues I have with other Brands is the reason they are labeled ujm. I don't want a "universal" looking bike I want to be different which is what drew me to Buell in the first place. Buells look aggresive and hungry and ready to chew up the road and spit it out, and thats just standing still. When I have to start looking for a name tag to tell me what kind of motorcycle is in front of me they're to generic.Bob | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Jim_Sb |
Just saw the Oct. 2002 CW article on the 9S. Very complimentary write-up. Very fun looking bike. I will need to ride one. I like what they've done with ergos. How many units per year does Buell need to sell to be profitable? Jim in SB | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| José_Quiñones |
Blake, No arguments on 1, 2, 3, or especially 5, nationalism is a valid reason for a lot of people to buy products, not just motorcycles. Some people don't think it's a valid reason, and these are the most likely to ride a Japanese or European bike. #4 however, is not the real world, most people I talk to don't compare the Buells to those bikes, they compare them to the UJMs and repli racers. Sure it's reasonable to say what we WANT, we're the existing/potential customer, they have to listen to what we want, and decide if that's what they want to build, or let somebody else get our $$$. They lurk, they keep hearing the comments here, they also read the comments people write in the comment book at the demo ride events, and the comments the reps get at the bike shows. If you had been at the Pocono Rally and been there for the Erik Buell Q&A, you would have heard the angst that the existing Buell Ownership has towards the current direction that the company is on. I felt sorry for Leslie, who had to repeat all the questions to Erik on the phone. Every question was about "where are the tube frames/where's the M2/S3 replacement, when's the bigger Firebolt coming out/will Buell ever use a non HD engine?" (none of these were mine). To this last one Erik tried to make the point that the Firebolt engine was not an HD engine, to which audible hissing and snickering could be heard. It got kind of tense. Buell can build the bike they want, we are all free to choose to buy it or not, based on whatever criteria we choose. I currently choose not to buy what they are offering. Hopefully one day that will change, but I'm afraid HD will get there before Buell will. Again, this is only my opinion, everyone is free to agree or disagree. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Blake |
JQ, Let me understand you clearly. You are suggesting that HD, a cruiser-only manufacturer, is going to out sport bike the sport bike company they bought to help crack the sport bike market? Does that make sense to you. Really? So HD hired Erik Buell, one of the few geniuses in the world of motorcycling today, bought his company, and would seek to make Buell obsolete through internal competition? Does that make sense to you? It sure doesn't to me. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Buellerthanyou |
Oh Happy Day! Here's a little excerpt from the Chick's H-D (Albuquerque, NM) newsletter that I recieved today: "BUELL STRATEGY COMMITTEE: During last week's meetings, Chick saw the first production XB9S Lightnings come off the line on time and on budget. When Chick met Erik Buell in 1987, Erik was shivering in his farmhouse and making his first bikes in a metal shed in the middle of a cornfield. During the employee ceremony last week, Erik was visibly very proud of what's been accomplished over the years. Chick's HD is Buell dealer #006 by the way." Lightnings coming off the line? Yeah, baby, sign me up! Thanks to Lynn Springer at Chick's for the update. HellBuelly Jay http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hellbuellies/ "The woods are lovely, dark and deep. But I have rockerbox gaskets to replace, And miles to go before I sleep And miles to go before I sleep." --Robert "Rumbler" Frost | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| José_Quiñones |
It doesn't make sense to me either, but I think that is what will happen. Like was mentioned earlier, I think HD corporate has decided that Buell are Begginer bikes, like the Sportsters that they sprang from, and what people will trade up to are the bigger HD's, particularly the new VROD variants that will come out in the next few years. Did you See Motorcyclist on SpeedVision Yesterday? The VROD won the 2002 bike of the year. Earl Werner, President of Engineering at HD, said something along the lines of "this new model is aimed at the typical customer that has not set foot in a HD showroom because we did not offer something with the performance and technology that they were looking for. This is our effort to attract that younger, more performance oriented crowd" He said this about the VROD, not the Buell Firebolt, which was also nominated! I think this confirms this suspicion, Buell, like Sportsters are merely "foot in the door" models, to get you to trade up to the bigger bikes later. Plenty of people will keep their Buells and be perfectly happy, but most will trade up. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Hootowl |
More performance oriented? How much HP/LB does the VROD sport? I'll bet the XB's will kick its ass in the corners AND the straights. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Raymaines |
 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Psychobueller |
"Earl Werner, President of Engineering at HD, said something along the lines of "this new model is aimed at the typical customer that has not set foot in a HD showroom because we did not offer something with the performance and technology that they were looking for. This is our effort to attract that younger, more performance oriented crowd" Actually, he was the VP of Continuous Improvement. Sounds like a made up title! What he said was very true. There are people who are focused on the technological aspects of a motorcycle, especially the engine. I am related to one and it's a frustration trying to explain to him why I love my Buell. The Buell offers a visceral experience. It throbs, it snarls. It does not have anywhere near the highest performance available on the market, but I have ridden almost every type of bike available, and NONE was more fun than the Buell for street riding. Period. That's why I bought mine. His favorite bike is the new ST1300. Snarl and viscera does not appear on his radar. Two completely different sets of customer expectations and preferences. I think the V-Rod is a cruiser for people who own a 996 and want something to tool around on. I never owned a H-D. I rode Hondas, Suzukis, and BMWs. Frankly, the Buell's rough edges made the brand more attractive to me. People who are attracted to technology will love the V-rod and it's platform-mates when they arrive. If Buell ever puts the VRSC engine in it's chassis, I think they will like that too. But people who want a fun, visceral experience seem to like the direction Buell is taking. |
