| Author | Message | ||
     Buellgrrrl |
Greetings from the BMWMOA rally in Gillette, Wyoming. There's 6000 or so BMW riders here, and an undercurrent of seething discontent with the brand. Demand for test rides is so low that they're only holding two a day. The accessory sellers are doing a lot more business than the two BMW trailers, and the Airheads tents had a bigger crowd than the whole factory entourage. I rode my Tuber out here, parked it right next to the Airheads, and heard not a single complaint. There were several respectful questions about Buell thought. Less than a mile away is the Harley/Buell franchise. Now with a crowd like this, one would have thought they'd at least have invited the BMW riders over for coffee and donuts. Maybe even some test rides. With 5 unsold 1125s on the floor, plus another half dozen '06, '07, and '08 Buells cluttering the premises you'd think they'd make an attempt at moving the merchandise. But Nooooo... This dealer has the all to familiar HD "attitude" problem. Not even a tiny cup of free coffee to be found anywhere. $10.95 for a quart of Syn3... Need I say more? With dealers like this, it's amazing Buells are selling as well as they are. With a bit of modest dealer promotion, Buells would fly out the doors. | ||
| 2kx1 |
Every , and I do mean every, BMW rider who sees my Buell asks me about the 12X. | ||
| Alchemy |
I am parked in a strip mall getting a bit of lunch to go Friday and a guy who works in one of the restaurants comes out of his restaurant and stops me to look at my Uly. He produces a magazine with a red Uly on the cover that he just got. Turns out he is riding a BMW R1200GS parked out back. He really likes the lines of the Uly and wants to know all about it. | ||
| Court |
It's interesting that in 1996 and 1997 Buell actually paid me to ride to, attend and participate in the BMW MOA rally. Significant Buell interest resulted. In 1996 we painted my S2 with "idea paint", what would become "Amazon Green" and I rode it to another BMW rally and to the Honda Hoot. I parked it, sat back and watched to see how folks reacted. BMW folks, in my view, are Buell owners awaiting conversion. I'd be dangling Ulys in front of them, and making $10,000 or $18,000 . . you decide" comments. . . .  | ||
| Paint_shaker |
Two of my buddies that come to March Badness and Buelltoberfest ride Beemers. One of them very much wants a Uly, not sure on the other.... | ||
| Johnnylunchbox |
I let a friend (BMW1200GS rider) try my Uly last year. He liked it and surmised he could get into a lot of trouble on it. He didn't like the front end dive, lack of wind protection that he's used to, but figured it was faster than his GS. I wouldn't go so far as to say BMW riders are awaiting a Buell salvation. although...My wife rides an R1150R, and after the last trip to the dealer for new tires and the 12k service to the tune of $$$1300 she is seriously considering a V-Strom, or possibly an XT. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Make sure you spend a little time riding a VStrom before picking it over an XT. The Strom is a great bike for the price, but if I had to live with a bike day to day I would take the XT 10 times out of 10. | ||
| Tramp |
Buellgrrrl- Great report, good observation. Those of us who came to Buell from the BMW side can understand the subtle reasoning behind this tropism. I disagree, respectfully, with Court's assessment that BMW riders are Buellers awaiting conversion (I'm reminded of Gen. Westmoreland's frightening Viet~nam era summation that "inside every Viet~namese there is an American waiting to get out"). ...Having worked many years in BMW service management, i can attest to two conditions that exist in BMW ridership: Riders who turn not wrench-one on their machines, who expect (and, for the most part, receive) minimal service interval; and riders who turn the occasional wrench on their machines, and whom thereby "know more than" the trained techs do. In the shaky-at-best world of Buell service, both scenarios present a recipe for the perfect storm of unprecedented customer service issues. BMW riders find Buells fun to look at, and thereby have plenty of questions, but that's as far as it typically goes....for good reason. Pots-airhead BMW motorcycles lack a great deal of rider-machine interface: They've always been (much like Guzzis) a great motorcycle to ride on, without exchanging the level machine feedback that creates an integrated riding experience. One of the primary strong suits of the Buell is the integrative riding condition, a quality that might be lost on the majority of BMW enthusiasts, leaving little else for them to really enjoy about the marque. I think that, what many of us on our Buells may interpret, from the BMW bunhc, as a subjective interest in our mounts, is actually (much of the time) a need to show another rider one's knowledge of all things motorcycle. Give a BMW enthusiast a wrench, and he will adjust his tank bag. Give him an hour in the service coffee lounge, and he'll re-educate everyone stuck in there with him. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Comparing the 12GS to the Uly, they are both very fine steeds. Like with most things, there are individuals on the ends of the equation that are really never going to be prospects for the other. In the middle, though, there are lots of folks who could be wooed over to the Buell end of the pool. | ||
| Jaimec |
My first MOA Rally was in 1989, where it happened to be held in York, PA. BMWNA STRONGLY objected to a Harley presence at the fairgrounds rally site, so the MOA had little choice but to comply with their wishes. Even though the MOA is completely independent of BMWNA (unlike HOG which is actually a part of the Harley umbrella), they still get a LOT of financial support and sponsorship from them. Anyway, Harley instead hosted an "Open House" at their final assembly plant. We couldn't get a factory tour since they were working on the 1990 model line, but we did get the museum tour, a chance to ride all of their models on their own on-premisis test track, and a free BBQ lunch. Somewhere I have a PRICELESS photo of the Harley parking lot FILLED with BMW motorcycles. I can't remember the gent's name, but at the time the head of Harley's PR department happened to be a life-member of the BMWMOA. He said he really didn't expect ANY cross-over customers since Harley and BMW appealed to a completely different type of rider (except for those who just wanted a two-wheeled status symbol, of course) but he felt if a major motorcycle event was happening in their backyard, they HAD to be neighborly and extend a welcome. I still remember the big banners hung over the street saying "The Harley Davidson Motor Company welcomes the BMW Motorcycle Owners of America!" | ||
| Court |
>>>>I wouldn't go so far as to say BMW riders are awaiting a Buell salvation. I'm not going quite that far . . . .but I maintain that "placing" Buells among BMW's is a very "target rich environment. I just paid $1,354 to have my BMW made ready to ride, $800+ was the carb rebuild. I ride for a couple weeks and had a carb problem. Bike has been in the shop a month awaiting a part. The is a wonderful opportunity for Buell in BMW riders. . . . | ||
| Tramp |
"In the middle, though, there are lots of folks who could be wooed over to the Buell end of the pool." }Perhaps...until they run into a service issue, and then hundreds of man-hours of time lambasting the Buell marque, online, and goddam lectures at MOA ralllies, decrying the snorting, wheelying 'unsafe-at-any-speed' Buells will lead to a violent divorce, en masse.... Spend some time in BMW service, and you'll understand that. | ||
| Tramp |
The one successful crossover for which I might make a case would be the BMW rider who misses his/her airhead. The Buells, in many ways , are like the 'machine that could have been', had BMW stuck with a more rider-integrative, aircooled, pushrod motorcycle. Modern BMW oilheads tend toward goddam doodad-wagonry, antitheses of the simplicity that made old airhead stand apart from the 20th c. crowd | ||
| Court |
>>>I'm confused- why didn't you perform the carb rebuild (one of the simplest tasks on any machine) yourself? TIME (Message edited by court on July 19, 2008) | ||
| Steve_mackay |
So during the Buell Homecoming 2008, I'm sure the local BMW dealer would treat me EXACTLY the same way as they had before... Won't give me the time of day when I walk in their dealership. It's the all too familiar snobbish BMW boutique. At the local HD/Buell dealer(Hals HD/Buell), there is always free coffee. You seem very quick to criticize HD/Buell dealerships... Yet, it seems to me that BMW dealerships don't seem to be any better. | ||
| Spatten1 |
What was the discontent with the BMW brand regarding? | ||
| Crusty |
The best dealership (of any marque)I've ever been to is a BMW/Moto Guzzi shop (A-J Cycles in Gill, MA). The biggest buttheads I've ever met on motorcycles were riding BMWs (and one complete ass on a Gold Wing). Most (but not all) of the BMW owners who have asked about my Uly were looking for an excuse to sneer at it. At most Harley shops, I'm treated like a red headed step child; at most BMW shops, I'm treated like an STD. Just my personal observations. | ||
| Tramp |
+1. The BMW shops where I have worked, and almost all that I've visited, have had demonstrated outstanding pre-consumer hospitality. The ridership, however, tends to include an inordinately large subset of failed engineers with a bizarre combination of gearhead superiority coupled with soft, lily-white little hands.... when you seee the "whiners' group" patch, run fast, and run far.... | ||
| Court |
Don't misunderstand my comments about the dealership. . . they are GREAT. For those of you in the area who have ever been to Cross Country you know what I mean. BMW, Husky and Ducati demo rides every Saturday . . BBQ like everytime I am there and the place is immaculate. It's just slooooooooooooow getting parts. The guys who do the work there are excellent or they wouldn't be touching it. | ||
| Tramp |
It shouldn't be slow getting parts, at all. This sounds suspiciously like a dealer service issue Ask for a copy of your RO (They can charge you for the copy, but they are obliged to produce it for you), and check the order date on each part, and ask a writer to go into lightspeed and check the staus...then ask for a printout of that. then, scan a copy to your friends at NA and ask them what the problem is.... You'll likely have your scoot completed in two days after that email. | ||
| Steve_mackay |
I've been in to the local BMW dealership 4 times in the past two years. 3 out of the 4 times, the place was completely empty, and only once, has a salesman even acknowledged my existance there. I was actually looking at the F800ST for my father-in-law. But they didn't seem to want my business at all.<shrug> I've only been treated poorly in ONE HD/Buell dealership. That was Ukes in Kenosha. At Hals, I'm treated like royalty. But, it helps that I am friends with several on the Employees, help out with a couple of the racers, and have helped them sell several bikes. If our bikes need service, they are almost ALWAYS moved to the front of the line, and finished the same day. I can walk in to have a tire changed, and walk out 15 minutes later. | ||
| Tramp |
Believe me, I can name some horrific BMW mc dealerships... | ||
| Buellgrrrl |
The two closest BMW dealerships to me are every bit as bad as the Harley boutiques. And the BMW "attitude" can be as bad as the HD "attitude". My road dirty Buell attracted a lot of favorable curiousity and comments here, at the airheads tent especially. This comes at a time when the realities of rusted quarter century old fuel tanks and rising BMW parts prices are hitting the airheads hard. There is a real opportunity here for Buell to pick up a big chunk of the BMW market here- if the dealers can be distracted from selling their fancy baubles. BTW, the only BMW attracting much interest here is the F650GS. It comes with a detuned F800 engine for an MSRP just under $8000... BMW might have a small sales success if they don't blow it. | ||
| Tramp |
Well-said, re: BMW dealerships being as bad as HD's. The BMW's airhead tank rust issues are a result of MTBE in American gasoline...Not really BMW's fault, there. bear in mind the fact that the F650 came first, though- it's not a detuned 800. You're dead-ion, though- it's the only buzz they've got going- ever since the embarrassing 007 release of the Cruiser in '97, the writing was on the wall for the marque. ...the only thing they have going for them is an italian-powered small-frame. Gott im HIMMEL! | ||
| Cityxslicker |
the local BMW shop hosts month slide shows and ride talks for after hours events. I love to show up and have the dirtiest filthiest mud chunky bike in the lot. And listen to them talk about ADVENTURE riding. There is alot of planning going on.... but every other bike in the lot is pristine and spooky clean. Good natured bunch of guys though. | ||
| Tramp |
Same can be said of many Buell events...and Ulys... I know of many GS rides who really, REALLY roll in the mud. | ||
| Court |
As luck would have it the local BMW shop is great . . . . | ||
| Glitch |
Atlanta Police are using the F650GS. It's quite effective in the cramped places around GA-Tech, GA-State, and around the congested areas in town. The Duluth Police (they used to ride Buell back in the day) are on the R 1200 RT-P, you mostly see them on radar duty. WRT dealership woes...regardless of brand, finding a good dealership after the sale is pretty difficult. Unless of course you spend tons of money every time you visit, even then it's not a guarantee. WRT the riders themselves, I've met all kinds, and have found that one can't judge a rider by what he rides. | ||
| Hexangler |
Ours is great too. They even have FREE: cans of pop, pool table, coffee and donuts. Even for us Buellers. I buy a lot of my gear there. http://www.ascycles.com/ | ||
| Spatten1 |
I'd expect an attitude from HD and BMW riders. How can you spend that much money on a motorcycle without thinking that you are also getting some kind of special magic that no other brand has. | ||
| Jaimec |
Tramp: The NEW F650GS is, in fact, a detuned F800GS. I have NO idea why BMW is calling it a "650" when it is definitely the exact same vertical twin cylinder engine with the same displacement as the F800GS. It is less "dirt-worthy," being more street-oriented than the F800GS. I also don't understand why they introduced that bike FIRST in this country, with the F800GS being delayed till early next year. Germans!  | ||
| Tramp |
Jaimiec- bear in mind that BMW introduced the first F650 (A single-lunger) in the 20th century. Thank you for the clarification, though- I thought about it after I posted, remembering the twin-aspect of the 800. Of course, the original, 20th century F650 was a totally different machine, and this redundant nomenclature doesn't help matters, much. ..Sorry, Buellgrrl- Hexangler- A&S is, truly, a GREAT shop. many of the staff from the Cali. shop I'd worked at moved on to A&S, and had great things to say for them. They were also wonderful to me whenever I needed parts that NA didn't have on-hand- A&S would have them shipped next-day to me (I mean, it was only a 2 1/2-3 hour drive, anyway). Nice people, excellent customer service. I'm not sure how things are at the last BMW dealership I'd worked at...I stopped in, last week, and it looked bustling, it was always known as a Riders' shop, with really well-planned routes EVERY Sunday, for anyone who wanted to go along. That's how they set the hook to hire me- NA paid my flight and lodging, and the shop took me for two days of long rides in the canyons, and put me on a brand-new (TRI)Speed-triple... I actually met a distinguished badwebber on that weekend. Some shops are strictly commercial, and some truly geared toward riders, in the BMW world... and, in fact, in the Harley world, the same definitely holds true. Connecticut's own Harley-Davidson of Danbury operates as a true riders' shop, with nice , organized rides and great customer service, and a Buell dep't. that actually knows what the hell is up. Interestingly, they're in the same town that one of the east coasts best BMW mc dealerships used to operate from. } | ||
| Tramp |
i think that anyone who's dealt with both would agree that there are as many good BMW Dealers as there are HD Dealers. Dud's in SF always treated me like gold, while Santa Cruz almost called the cops on me. |
