| Author | Message | ||
     Shot_Gun |
I second that motion! kudo's Steve. | ||
| Blake |
Steve Anderson! Great article in the October CW! I want a black one! My favorite part of your article... Hears to seeing Erik's confidence and hard fought efforts come to fruition. | ||
| Court |
Ditto. . . I'll tell ya that XB9S trips my personal "reach for the checkbook" trigger much quicker than the XB9R. I suspect it's closer to the S-1 which still stirs the soul. The build quality of the XB's are proving to be everything Erik promised and more. I am thrilled and inpressed. Steve prepared an excellent report! I want a PURPLE one  Hey wait....didn't I go through this several years ago? Court | ||
| Steve_A |
I'm glad you guys liked the article. The reliability improvements are incredibly important to Buell, and appear to be very real. According to Erik, the Lightning is seeing 1/2 the number of problems on a statistical basis in the accelerated testing as the Blast, and the Blast numbers for both in in-house and unnamable famous out-of-house surveys were comparable to the best Japanese. Of course, reliability reputation drastically lags reality. Erik is also concerned that Buell reliability is judged by the standard of drastically modified machines -- most Japanese sportbikes are left stock, with perhaps a muffler change. Most Buells are modified. I think you'll see a fair amount of emphasis on well-integrated performance increase kits such as the current one for Buells. I suspect that -- eventually -- as for Twin Cam Harleys, a mild kit if dealer installed may be allowed under the warranty. And, of course, there will always be a drive to provide more performance in standard form so owners will feel it less necessary to modify their machines. Any thoughts on what Buell could do to change perceptions on the reliability issue? | ||
| Peter |
Steve, That's an easy one. Increase the warranty period from one to three years. PPiA | ||
| José_Quiñones |
What Peter said, plus throw in roadside assitance during those three years, direct factory technical support via a model specific 800 number (mainly used to "facilitate" interaction between the owner and the dealer "Buells, do we work on those?" service departments) or via buell.com. Improve Buell.com by including a service section, including: 1. Recommended service intervals and descriptions of some basic procedures (copy the excellent ones included in the recent Fuell magazines by Mr. Hendricks) 2. Post and archive every service bulletin and recall for every model. These should be on there AT THE SAME TIME or just after dealers get them! 3. Parts schematics, including part #'s and prices, for each model, to help owners call their dealers with numbers in hand, so they don't have to wait 30 minutes while they find and fumble through the parts books that they only look at when a Buell owner calls. 4. If you want to get fancy, let owners order parts through the web page to pick up at your local dealer, or shipped directly to them from Buell or the Dealer for extra $$$$. For the bikes themselves: The single biggest thing Buell could do to improve the perception of poor reliability and structural integrity of their bikes is to quit using a PAINT SHAKER as an engine. The second thing they need to do is to get rid of the ALL THE RACKET (Noise) that the XL/XB engine makes when its running. Nothing screams out UNREFINED/UNSOPHISTICATED like a noisy, vibrating bike, mirrors flopping like fish out of water while barely standing on it's kickstand! Some here call that "character", potential buyers (particularly those coming over from the Japanese bikes) see that as lack of design and refinement. Get rid of the vibration and a lot of Buell's historical problems (parts like rear fenders and fairing lowers breaking, wires that bend and chafe causing electrical problems, etc) will go away. The XB's shake less, but the ones I have ridden still suffer from blurry mirrors (I mostly see my blurry shoulder/elbows on them anyway), and they still vibrate like they are having a seizure while idling on their kickstand. XB engines are are still annoyingly noisy. Not to mention the odd fuel pump noise or brake clicking..... The engine racket is still an issue for Buell Marketing and Engineering (yes, the infamous drive by test). Most non Buell owners listen to a Buell engine and see it bounce around in the frame and wonder if it will make it a mile down the road before grenading. It's a huge turn off. Yes, an "off road use only" covers up this noise, but then you "voided" the warranty haven't you? I now have an SV650, 90 degree liquid cooled V-Twin, rigid mounted to the frame. The thing is quieter and smoother at any rpm than my S3T has ever been. My hands and feet don't go to sleep, the mirrors are clear at all rpm, and it revs to 10,500! Yeah, it's got a chain which I hate, but other than that it's pretty easy to live with, and most importantly it's been dependable and reliable so far, which is my #1 priority right now. The only thing that I have ridden that is smoother and quieter than the SV is the VROD. JMHO | ||
| Snowdave |
Court, I must agree. I am having a much harder time resisting the new 9S than I did with the 9R. A naked, non-faired, v-twin, cornering, wheelie machine is just what the doctor ordered. Too bad my wife won't agree. She thought that one bike was the limit, but we are currently at two. | ||
| Aaron |
Gee, José, it's always been the "UNREFINED/UNSOPHISTICATED" aspect of the bikes that drew me to them. I like a bike that feels like it's alive. I don't want a damn appliance motorcycle, I want one that's crude and rude and shakes and roars. One of my favorite t-shirts is the old "It's a loud, rude ride" one. I guess that's why I'm having such a hard time liking the XB's. Too freakin' refined. Not the slightest bit crude and rude. Plus that lawn chair frame covering up the beautiful engine. | ||
| Sonomacyclone |
i'd have to agree w/ aaron. about a month ago my wife and i took a ride down past alice's restaurant. we stopped in for a rest and to check out the bikes in the parking area. i spotted a guy firing up his new firebolt and asked him how he liked it. he said he had just traded in his lightning on it and liked the bolt much better. said he was "tired of buell's lack of attention to fit and finish" - complained about the 'frankenstein-ish' front axel bolt etc. after he popped it in gear and took off, i could only think to myself that that's what attracted me to the buell in the first place. if i want to use something that has the feel of a sewing machine i'll take up quilting. | ||
| Sarodude |
I think it all comes down to appreciating an individual machine for what it IS instead of what it ISN'T or what someone thinks it shoulda' been. A few weeks ago we got Loli an 883 which is in the process of being made to fit her shortness. Anyway, I rode the thing a bit. It seriously made me grin and I have no concrete idea why. I do, however, remember enjoying all the sensations that came along with that ride. It was ALIVE. A guy on a 748 following me said I really looked like I was enjoying myself on that thing. There are already companies that make supremely refined motorcycles. Buell would stop standing out if they cloned 'em. Yeah, Buell's problems need to be solved. However, addressing them by completely changing the hearts and souls of the bikes is a bit like using a .357 to cure a cancer patient. Let Buells be Buells. Let those who want them buy them. Let those who loathe them go elsewhere. -Saro | ||
| Hootowl |
Saro, Well said. I finally got a hold of that guy with the salvage 750. He's in real estate as is never around. He says he's busy until Wednesday-Thursday of next week. He lives in Katy, which is on the West side of town. Not too far out of the way. I'll send you the pics as soon as I have them. | ||
| Blake |
JQ, I agree with most of your thoughtful suggestions except... I really really like the existing engine architecture. I would suggest Buell do what HD does with their big cruiser engines, match the cam gears to bushing spacing dimensions to eliminate excessive (read "noisy" ) backlash. Either that or tighten up the tolerances to accomplish the same (that would be MY preference). I suspect there are some "good old boys" at the engine plant that have been arguing/justifying for decades why it is "impossible" to tighten up those tolerances. That's total BS! They need someone who can argue, prove and just plain do the opposite. It isn't rocket science, it isn't impossible. Just freaking do it! NO more excuses! | ||
| Hootowl |
I read (in Battle2win I think) that there are five different sizes of cams that go into the sporty engine. Not different grinds, different sizes. The idea is that the guy who slaps the cams in adjusts for minimum lash via size selection. The number of cams that Buell needed wasn't worth manufacturing in different sizes, so there's some slop in the gears. It was a long time ago, so I don't remember all the particulars exactly. Anybody else remember reading about this? | ||
| Steve_A |
---I read (in Battle2win I think) that there are five different sizes of cams that go into the sporty engine. Not different grinds, different sizes. The idea is that the guy who slaps the cams in adjusts for minimum lash via size selection. The number of cams that Buell needed wasn't worth manufacturing in different sizes, so there's some slop in the gears. It was a long time ago, so I don't remember all the particulars exactly. Anybody else remember reading about this? --- The Sportster line has a separate, temperature controlled room that engine cases sit in for some hours to come to that controlled temperature. Then those cases are thrown on a coordinate measuring machine, the distance between the cam bearings are measured, and a computer spits out which of a number of different cam part numbers -- with minutely different sized gears -- get put in which spot. Buell elected not to follow this procedure for cost and simplicity reasons -- they'd suddenly have 20-some part numbers, rather than 4, if they were to use a non-Sportster grind -- which they had to do to get the power they wanted. In any case, the "social noise" issues that Jose raises do exist, though I think most of it isn't coming from the cam gears. There's a lot of slightly rough noises emerging from the XB9R & S engines -- and much like the rattle of Ducati dry clutches, it bothers some people a lot, others not at all. | ||
| Blake |
Primary chain? | ||
| Spiderman |
The Valve train and primary noise is what give that "dinosaur" engine it's uniqueness. Sounds like the whole thing is gonna fall apart, throw it on the dyno and BAM! 90 hp. Gotta love that. | ||
| Court |
....In any case, the "social noise" issues that Jose raises Not to worry...that noise is just Jose', you'll get used to him | ||
| Dynarider |
I dont know Spidey, I wish my valve train was just a tad quieter. Something along the lines of my Dyna would be great, you really dont hear the clatter with the EVO. | ||
| José_Quiñones |
Court,  Aaron, Blake, Spidy, Saro. I agree there is a certain subset within the Motorcycling world that WANTS exactly what Buell is delivering right now, a rough, noisy engine in a bike with some attitude. But it's a SUBSET! In my opinion, for Buell to expand it's market into the rest of the Motorcycling buying public, they need to adress this and make the engines smoother and quieter. Blake, I don't disagree with what you said, as long as you can make it smooth and quiet, the existing 45 degree pushrod design is ok, for a torquey cruiser engine!  | ||
| José_Quiñones |
Hootowl Yes, you read it HERE | ||
| José_Quiñones |
from the article:  They have gone to a high contact ratio design for the cams since this article was written, but they are still using the primary chain and the engines are still air cooled. Steve, the engine noises don't just bother people, it hurts them in the EPA drive by test. | ||
| Daves |
Court, At the dealer meeting I asked Erik when I could get an S in black with a purple frame and wheels to match the X1. He just kind of laughed and said, maybe next year. So maybe we can get them to make me one like I want and a purple one for you. Ride to the edge! Dave HD/Buell Cycle Center 4022 Sergeant Rd Waterloo Ia 50701 1-800-342-7539 ext 14 | ||
| Spiderman |
Dyna have you heard a soft tail run with the counter-balancers in it? With the stock exhaust you can hear thoes bad boys wizzin around more than our valve-train noise. I'll take my unrefined noise any day, it is kinda like the bike is sayin "Yeah i'm loud, F*&$ you i'm a bad ass American Machine. We don't do anything quiet in the USA!!" | ||
| Dynarider |
Spidey, I do agree that the counterbalanced engines sound like crap. Although some are a lot worse than others. One chick I knew had a new deuce & it sounded like the engine was gonna blow from all the racket. But then I have also witnessed a few that made no noise whatsoever. Weird. | ||
| Spiderman |
Yeah the rubber mounted ones LOL | ||
| Rick_A |
I personally love the noise. I love the shakes, too. When my original isolators started going bad on my S1 I put aluminum bushings in 'em so they'd hold out a little longer. I decided to retain those bushings even after putting in the revised isolator kit, 'cause they made the bike really feel alive, as well as more solid. Now if I could just find a way to keep parts from rattling off my tail... Anyway, I like the direction Buell has gone in just fine...lumpy engine and all. | ||
| Spiderman |
Rick did you get the Aluminum bushings from ASB? If so how much were they cause i was thinking about getting them when mine go. | ||
| Aaron |
Well, José, in my mind it's not at all a foregone conclusion that Buell would be better off making bikes like the Japanese make and competing on their turf. And I certainly think the world of motorcycling would lose something special if they did. It'd be an awfully boring world if everyone sold UJM's. I'd rather see more choices for us, not less. | ||
| Court |
Buell, in my opinion, (apologies to Dave Gess who has heard me preach this for years) MUST DEFINE their own competative arena. If Buell allows themselves to be lured/drug/coaxed onto the playing field the Japanese motorcycle manufactures compete on, it'll be like Luke Skywalker getting gunned by one of those vapor weapons. Make no mistake about it. 1) The Japanese folks are gifted engineers. 2) Have developed and lead the world in manufacturing processes, distribution, product supply and support. 3) Build a wonderful product. 4) Have an unapproachable "concept to market" calender. (for the record, Buell approached that mark with the 1996 S-1) I could go on . . . . One of the things that first drew me to Buell was some I hesitate to call a "lack of sophistication" but perhaps I should call a "lack of doing things as everyone thinks they should be done" and a relentless adherance to the belieft we'd prevail. Erik Buell HATES to loose. I love the way that Buell, much like TEAM ELVES, has benefited from the team concept. Against huge odds, Buell people have exploited the fact that they were from the generation I described as "having hot rodded Chevy's and receiving wonderful educations". Much trial and error has been augmented with science and math. Don't think for one minute that either Buell or Aaron Wilson get their performance simply by random trial and error. They may not know where they are going to slay the dragon, but they know which forrest to hunt in and what weapon to take. I like the "different in every sense" aspect of Buell. But, I like it for reasons the marketers may not have ever imagined. I like it because of the diversity and type of people it draws to the marque. I've owned a number of things, cars, airplanes and motorcycles and not until I became associated with Buells did my world change. I've shaken >3,500 Buell owners hands, I know much about the culture of Europe, Asia and well.....Australia that I never knew. My world is a much better, more complete and more understaning place. I NEVER want Buell to be like Honda. That's not a "bad thing", it's a simple fact. When Buell has a problem, remember the day of the recalls, we feel like a family member has a problem. Sure, we did our share of bitching initially, but many folks took up the challenge, sought solutions, were patient as fixes came and how many hours have we, on this site, spent covering up the shortcomings of the dealer network by disseminating information? I'm also drawn by the Buell Dream. It's a bit, again, like TEAM ELVES. We went small, grassroots and decided that we'd play on the SUM of our talents. It worked. My beyt is that TEAM ELVES will compose about 35% of the World of Speed event this year. I'm a huge fan and admirerer of the UJM. In addition, it's no secret that the design of the Italians stirs my soul. But when it comes down to converting a passion and lust for motorcycling into a passion and lust for life, I'm going with Buell. I've spent enough all nighters crossing the country as I watch my moon shadow grow that my life has been changed by Buell Motorcycles. Like family, I'll take them with their quirks, their shortcomings and the things I have to tolerate because I am part of them and they are part of me. Court | ||
| Dynarider |
So in a way Court, you are saying you like Buell because of its lifestyle & the folks it brings into your life? Isnt that awful close to what Harley has been marketing for years? |
