| Author | Message | ||
     Loucksgl |
Changing oil today on 08 Uly. Easy. Did billion oil changes. I follow torque specs on every bolt on anything I work on. Rider manual stated 26 - 29 ft lbs or 35 - 39 NM. OK; going through the swing arm. Must be thick stuff and they want heavy torque. Should of pitched the book and just tightened the damned plug by feel. Stripped it. Hanging the bike up in the garage on a hook beside my 1984 RB1 Bridgestone. Nothing's been right with that bike. Not even the instructions. No Oil Pan and got no idea how to remove shavings after drilling for hellicoil. Back to shop I guess. Man! Dropped bike off at dealer and called Buell about the bad torque specs in the owner manual. They authorized replacement of the swing arm. Very impressive! Very!}} (Message edited by loucksgl on September 12, 2007) | ||
| Kdkerr2 |
Bummer, Dude! Where is the drain plug? I've got an 01 M2 Cyclone and both drain plugs [the primary/transmission and the crankcase] are blocked by the exhaust and the shock. This is a bad situation but I'm sure you know that. Go to the next size larger pipe tap. Don't use a helicoil because they are almost impossible to seal. When you tap it out fill the flutes [the reliefs]with grease or vaseline. This will trap most of the chips. Do the same for the pilot drill. fasten a piece of copper tubing [small enough to go in the hole]to an air gun [try to find one of the non OSHA types [60 PSI or greater]]. Stick it up in the hole and blow like hell. Hopefully this will get rid of any residual chips. That's the best I can suggest. The only thing else you can do is to detail strip the engine and clean it out. If you do that you might as well have a welder weld on a new threaded bung made out of 6061 T6 Aluminum. Good Luck! | ||
| Reepicheep |
What KD said. I tried this on an SV-650 for a friend (same deal) and we did have a hard time getting the heli-coil to seal. Shoulda just tapped to the next larger size and found a new bolt to seal it. The grease thing was recommended when I did it as well. I also had a second person with a shop vac applying lots of suction to the drill tip as I was cutting, to try and capture chips, and blew out from the top with an air compressor, and also just "drained through" several quarts of the cheapest thinnest oil I could find to try and flush the chips out. I also stuffed a nylon strap in there before drilling, so I could pull it (and the chips) back out. Terrible idea. The drilling will leave a lip up inside, which will snag on whatever you try and pull out of there. I got it out, but it was fairly terrifying for a bit there. You could disconnect the swing arm oil lines before starting, and just flush the heck out of the swingarm after tapping with whatever is handy. You are in better shape then if this happened with a bike with a wet sump in the engine (for what thats worth). | ||
| Bombardier |
Do ya reckon they will believe this was caused by a stripped thread and replace it Loucksgl?  | ||
| Reepicheep |
Yikes! You won't be heli-coiling that one! | ||
| Loucksgl |
Reepicheep: No heli-coil. I thought so too. Buell tech authorized a new swing arm. Yep. Amazing. Dealer has it ordered and should be on the road this week. Give credit where it's due. Hooray Buell Tech and Hooray SMHD for jumping on it. I just hope Buell Tech sends out some correction bulletins on that torque to insert into the 08 riders manuals so it can be brought up to customers when the bike is explained to them at delivery day | ||
| Loucksgl |
Bombardier Looks like a job for JB Bond | ||
| Luvz2ride |
What happened to my post? Does Buell moderate this? I had the same thing happen with my 07 CityX with just 1000 miles (first oil change). Step-by-step with Factory manual using torque wrench at specified torque value. Seems to me both inaccurate torque spec given (the service manual and owners manual don't even give the same spec!) AND weak thread area on swing arm. Looking for the contact at Buell that acknowledged issue. Can provide private email if you can't post here. Lets hear from others who have experienced this... | ||
| Blake |
I don't know; maybe this is it? No. You can contact Buell customer service at (414) 343-8400. (Message edited by Blake on September 25, 2007) | ||
| Loucksgl |
Luvz2ride .......I had no trouble getting them to replace swing arm. I didn't even ask them for one. They offered. Amazing. I just contacted the Buell Customer service and had to wait through all the teleprompting and push the phone buttons as instructed, waited about 15 minutes on the line and a lady came on and gave me a reference number. I opted to wait for a tech and gave him the reference number and a description of the problem. He seemed a little surprised that the problem "still" existed; indicates its an ongoing problem correcting the torque specs in the owners manual. But he acknowledged they knew about the misprint and immediately offered to replace the swing arm. Good luck man! | ||
| Trapper |
I wish I had read this sooner! I have a 2006 XB12X and was using the 2006 Buell Service Manual that I bought at the dealer, to properly change my oil. On page 1-14 it says: ...2. Apply Loctite 565 Thread Sealant, install plug and tighten to 29-34 ft-lbs (40-46 Nm). I attempted to do that and prior to my torque wrench clicking it started to get tight and just turned and turned and turned then got real easy to turn....SHIT!!!! From what I read here I guess I should call Buell Customer Service? | ||
| Cheddarheads4erik |
Trapper; 414-343-9400 for CS | ||
| Frostymug |
2008 Ulysses XB12XT I just stripped the oil drain on my swing arm yesterday and boy do I feel like an idiot. I’ve changed oil in many cars, motorcycles and ATVs with and without aluminum pans and never stripped one before. My manual lists the torque as 26–29 ft lbs so I set my wrench to 27 applied Loctite PST 565 to the threads and proceeded to turn to specs. When I realized what was happening, it was too late. The dealer recommended I visit my local auto parts store since they didn’t have a Buell oversize plug or any other suggestions to help. I removed the plug, went to the local auto parts store and picked up a ½” oversize plug and carefully screwed it in backing it out every two turns to clean the thread on both surfaces and to my amazement it worked with no leaks. Since there is no magnet on the oversize plug to me this is just a temporary fix and I plan on calling the Buell/HD customer service department Monday. 7/8/08- Called Buell/HD talked to Chris in customer service, he acted shocked and surprised and claimed he never heard of the problem of stripped swing arms or the incorrect torque settings in the manual. After 15 minutes of him belittling me and basically beating me up over the phone his final words were "You caused the problem, then it's your problem not Buell's." He also refused to let me speak to his Manager. Please reply with any suggestions or tips you may have on dealing with this situation. P.S. Since I no longer have a magnet on the drian plug, do any of you know if the oil goes through the filter before entering the engine? Thanks (Message edited by frostymug on July 08, 2008) | ||
| Froggy |
Frosty, call them up again. | ||
| Sagehawk |
I went through several things like that on a 96 road king. both heads spark plug threads, the timing plug threads,and most recently the trans drain plug. steel heli-coils for the heads, a 3/8 npt socket head pipe plug for the timing plug, the trans plug i went to o'reillys and got a magnetic, one oversize magnetic drain plug with the serrated blue gasket and torqued that to about 125" lbs. no leaks to date. When changing oil in my 07 xb12x the o-rings were unusable on the drain plugs. since i don't do harley dealers real well back to o'reillys for two standard magnetic drain plugs with those blue gaskets and tightened them to 125"lbs also. haven't run it long enough to tell the tale but it is just a drain plug. by the way, it is good to hear from other buell riders and the issues that others have. | ||
| Sagehawk |
For Frosty: according to the manual the oil goes from swingarm to pump to cooler to oil filter to crankshaft/motor back to swingarm. hope this helps. | ||
| Frostymug |
Thanks for the help Sagehawk. Just got back from talking with the service manager at my selling dealer. Next Thursday they will first try the Helicoil thing while they are doing the 1000 mile service and if that doesn't work they will try to get a new swing arm installed under warranty. I kind of hope the Helicoil works; since they weren’t 100% sure they could get Buell to cover it. | ||
| Sagehawk |
Frosty: Find out what kind of heli-coil they will be using. The steel insert like for spark plugs are pretty good. a normal helicoil is fairly frail and can unscrew like a slinky on you're worst day. Don't mean to rain on a parade but being a machinist for 35 years, you tend to see what works and what don't. I wish you luck and let me know how the xb12xt is working out for you. take care. | ||
| Us_uly |
Wish I would have seen this post 4 hours ago. My story is the same. Put the plug back in and went to torque it to the manual's specs and it started spinning! | ||
| Frostymug |
Let us know how you deal with it. | ||
| Us_uly |
Called dealer, they want me to bring it in. I'll let you know... | ||
| Us_uly |
Dropped bike off. Service said they were going to call Buell. Stay tuned... | ||
| Us_uly |
Service called Buell/HD. Buell/HD said they would replace the tank/swingarm, but I would have to pay for labor, because the manual is correct at 24-29 ft-lbs. So service wanted a copy of my manual that says, 29-34 ft-lbs. Which I took to the dealer for them to copy. Funny, if you go to the Buell web site and look at the Maintenance and Lubrication for my bike it says: "Replace drain plug in oil tank/swingarm after oil is thoroughly drained. Use LOCTITE 565 PST THREAD SEALANT on fastener and tighten plug to 29-34 ft-lbs (39-46 Nm)." Stay tuned. I'd like to get it back soon. WVa Buell Rally is coming quick! | ||
| Us_uly |
Great news to report! Buell/Harley covered the part, new swingarm, and my service department at Lake Erie HD/Buell covered the labor. Needless to say I am very satisfied customer. So I proceeded to put on about 130 miles today. I think it's ready to go to WVa next weekend. | ||
| Eicas |
For what it is worth, I am doing an oil change this evening on my '08 XB12Ss. When I removed the plug, installed by the Harley dealer during the 1,000 mile check, it was barely tight. The dealership put nowhere near 29 foot-pounds torque on the oil drain plug. Plug goes back in tomorrow with a new packing, thread sealant, and 10 foot-pounds of torque. It would be done now except I can't find my "spare" o-ring so back to the dealer for a new one. | ||
| Akbuell |
Having heard enough of these horror stories, when I did my oil change, I drilled the head of the oil drain plug while I had it out. IRRC, I used a #60 drill bit. Re-installed, snugged it up, and safety wired it to a bracket I made to fit under the P-clamp that holds the oil line to the bottom of the swingarm. No leaks, no worries about stripping the plug, and no worries about it coming loose. | ||
| Buellnick |
Alrighty then... I too have found out the hard way that the owners manual and service manual is wrong. The first clue should have been the coiled shavings that came out with the drain plug. The plug would not even tighten to 12FTLBS. Put teflon sealant on the threads, snugged it up as much as possible, check for leaks while running, and delivered it to the local dealer for repair. First reaction by the service writer (as expected)...he would let me know what it will cost. I told him that I see this as a BUELL problem... We shall see... I hope they (the dealer and Buell) do the right thing here. damn it... I have three Buells - two of which are in the shop. | ||
| Buellnick |
actually this should be called the "Drain Hole Stripped" section. Seems Buell went from steel on steel to steel on aluminium and they didn't bother to tell their publishers of the obvious need to change torque values. Its now '08 and the 08 XB service manuals STILL have the 26-29FtLbs torque value... How many years has the newer swing arm been out? NOT PLEASED...just venting. | ||
| Froggy |
$12 says the 09 manual still says 12 ft lbs!  | ||
| Buellnick |
Froggy, You mean still say 26-29 FtLbs... because thats what they've been publishing. |
